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01-23-2013, 02:16 PM
  #976
Amos665
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Also, Gagner is only 23. Still a pup. If he is still having the same issues in 4 years, get back to me.

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01-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #977
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So because Gagner isn't RNH he is no good? This is just replacing one shiny piece for a newer shiny piece. Just spinning wheels.
No, I never said that. But if I'm giving someone a free pass I'm more inclined to give it to the more talented 2nd year player than the 6th year player that's less talented.

Gagner still is a good player. I just don't think he is the answer as our #2 center now or in the future.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #978
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Lacroix????
I'm living in the past. Sherman.*

Though I am sure Lacroix is on in this because of the nature of the disagreement.

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01-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #979
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I wouldn't deal him within the Western Conference if I were Lacroix. I'm beginning to suspect that he's going to have to deal him though. Still I'd like the Oilers to push as much as possible for it.

As a life-time Oilers fan I know what it's like to lose players due to an internal salary cap and feel for Av's fans.
It's not about an internal cap. I's RoR who's holding out in Russia asking for 5m per, completely unreasonable for his 1 good offensive season.

Avs don't do business that way, look at Drury, Ozolinsh, Deadmarsh etc. It's only a matter of time before he's traded, but it has nothing to do with the amount the Avs are willing to spend overall.

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01-23-2013, 02:21 PM
  #980
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Also, Gagner is only 23. Still a pup. If he is still having the same issues in 4 years, get back to me.
Lol..really? Lets give a player NINE YEARS before we come to a conclusion? Does that mean we should give Dubnyk until he is 35 to decide if hes the #1?

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01-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #981
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No, I never said that. But if I'm giving someone a free pass I'm more inclined to give it to the more talented 2nd year player than the 6th year player that's less talented.

Gagner still is a good player. I just don't think he is the answer as our #2 center now or in the future.
Unless they can find a sucker to get a more legitimate 2C than him through an unbalanced trade, or can magically draft one instantly next year (without tanking!) I don't see him not being the answer right now. No way are they trading any of the Fab 5, so I don't see a trade happening this season. The closest answer to this would be signing Getzlaf this summer.

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01-23-2013, 02:23 PM
  #982
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Lol..really? Lets give a player NINE YEARS before we come to a conclusion? Does that mean we should give Dubnyk until he is 35 to decide if hes the #1?
The Oilers have put 9 years already into Dubnyk, he gets this season and half of next to show. Gagner has also played most of his career with sub-par linemates.

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01-23-2013, 02:33 PM
  #983
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Lol..really? Lets give a player NINE YEARS before we come to a conclusion? Does that mean we should give Dubnyk until he is 35 to decide if hes the #1?
Many players continue developing and improving until their mid to late 20's. I don't see why it's a stretch to think he'll continue to improve.

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01-23-2013, 02:34 PM
  #984
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ROR would be an amazing piece to our top six but at what cost? If we offer sheet him at 5mil we give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick for him... If he had more seasons of progression under his belt than I would consider but right now that is too much for him... plus we do not have our 3rd round this year, we have 2 2nds. Gave away the 3rd in the Fristric trade.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Amos665 View Post
Also, Gagner is only 23. Still a pup. If he is still having the same issues in 4 years, get back to me.
I think the way to look at it is that we need a #1-2 center with size grit and skill. This means only one of Gagner or RNH for the other center position. I'm betting the unanimous answer is RNH

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01-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
It's not about an internal cap. I's RoR who's holding out in Russia asking for 5m per, completely unreasonable for his 1 good offensive season.

Avs don't do business that way, look at Drury, Ozolinsh, Deadmarsh etc. It's only a matter of time before he's traded, but it has nothing to do with the amount the Avs are willing to spend overall.
It's the new NHL. The Skinner deal set the market to such an extent that O'Reilly isn't really being unreasonable. Given that he seems happy enough to play in the KHL, I don't see why he'd accept less than what he's asked for.

Call it an internal cap or call it prudent business but the Avs management team seems committed to not overpaying for players and generating a return for their owner. As a fan I'd hate to see that lead to losing a player like O'Reilly just like I hated to see a similar policy leading to losing players like Weight, Joseph, and Guerin. That said, if the Oilers/Leafs/Habs/Flames/etc have proven anything recently, it's that spending close to the cap doesn't necessarily ensure success.

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01-23-2013, 02:43 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Many players continue developing and improving until their mid to late 20's. I don't see why it's a stretch to think he'll continue to improve.
Of course he is going to improve....but I think we know exactly what we will get with Gagner. Hes not going to turn into a Kesler or Richards in a couple years. Hes a smallish skill forward with a limited physical side to his game.

If he wasn't lining up between Yakupov and Hemsky it wouldn't be as big of a concern. But he is, and could be for this season and next season.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:56 PM
  #988
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I think the way to look at it is that we need a #1-2 center with size grit and skill. This means only one of Gagner or RNH for the other center position. I'm betting the unanimous answer is RNH
These do not grow on trees though. So outside of signing Getzlaf, I just don't see how the Oilers could acquire one.

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01-23-2013, 02:59 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
It's the new NHL. The Skinner deal set the market to such an extent that O'Reilly isn't really being unreasonable. Given that he seems happy enough to play in the KHL, I don't see why he'd accept less than what he's asked for.

Call it an internal cap or call it prudent business but the Avs management team seems committed to not overpaying for players and generating a return for their owner. As a fan I'd hate to see that lead to losing a player like O'Reilly just like I hated to see a similar policy leading to losing players like Weight, Joseph, and Guerin. That said, if the Oilers/Leafs/Habs/Flames/etc have proven anything recently, it's that spending close to the cap doesn't necessarily ensure success.
I really don't think you understand the Avs' situation. The Avs' owners (Kroenkes) have a net worth of approximately $7-8 billion. They own the Pepsi Center in Denver and they own their own cable network that broadcasts the Avs games throught Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Northern New Mexico. They own every possible income stream related to the franchise. It really is one of the better ownership arrangements in the entire NHL.

They routinely were the biggest spenders years ago (around $65 million per season payroll) and they recently have spent aggresively on UFAs (Smyth, Hannan).

It really is not a money issue, especially when they have reportedly offered him at least $3.5 million per season. They don't want to meet his demands because it is not in line with his perceived market value, especially when it will give him a higher annual salary than Matt Duchene and Erik Johnson.

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01-23-2013, 03:03 PM
  #990
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I wouldn't mind Anisimov from Columbus. Similar stats to Gagner except he's 6'4" and only ever been given limited ice time.
With Columbus wanting to build around Johansen as their #1, and already putting in the time and effort to develop Brassard into a #2, I think there's a deal to be made with Hemsky, Paajarvi or Gagner.
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Hartikainen-Anisimov-Yakupov

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01-23-2013, 03:06 PM
  #991
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I'll toss Umberger's name out there. Played center off and on in CBJ. Was generally 50% on draw, plays PK, generally lead forwards in blocked shots, healthy, 20g-20a last 4 years.

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01-23-2013, 03:09 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I wonder if Umberger is an option or not.
I was actually just about to write the same. Hes a bigger body, seems to always get 20 goals and is usually around the 50 point range.

He does however still have 4 more years after this year that would put him at 35 (I think). And 4.6 million isn't a super exactly a cheap contract.

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01-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #993
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I was actually just about to write the same. Hes a bigger body, seems to always get 20 goals and is usually around the 50 point range.

He does however still have 4 more years after this year that would put him at 35 (I think). And 4.6 million isn't a super exactly a cheap contract.
The contract is the issue. However, I have to think you get 3 years out of him.

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01-23-2013, 03:15 PM
  #994
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i'm really against trading for luongo...don't think that's very smart for us

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01-23-2013, 03:17 PM
  #995
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I really don't think you understand the Avs' situation. The Avs' owners (Kroenkes) have a net worth of approximately $7-8 billion. They own the Pepsi Center in Denver and they own their own cable network that broadcasts the Avs games throught Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and Northern New Mexico. They own every possible income stream related to the franchise. It really is one of the better ownership arrangements in the entire NHL.

They routinely were the biggest spenders years ago (around $65 million per season payroll) and they recently have spent aggresively on UFAs (Smyth, Hannan).

It really is not a money issue, especially when they have reportedly offered him at least $3.5 million per season. They don't want to meet his demands because it is not in line with his perceived market value, especially when it will give him a higher annual salary than Matt Duchene and Erik Johnson.
The Kroenkes are good business people, who spent a lot on players when the Avs core guaranteed long playoff runs. Those days are over. When they come back again, I am sure the Avs will ramp up spending again. In the mean time, it looks like RoR is going to be shipped out so as to avoid overpaying for an unproven team. That's a money issue regardless of the owners' net worth.

You're kidding yourself if you think that a lot of other team's in the NHL wouldn't give O'Reilly significantly more than $3.5 million with term.

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01-23-2013, 03:17 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
I wouldn't mind Anisimov from Columbus. Similar stats to Gagner except he's 6'4" and only ever been given limited ice time.
With Columbus wanting to build around Johansen as their #1, and already putting in the time and effort to develop Brassard into a #2, I think there's a deal to be made with Hemsky, Paajarvi or Gagner.
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Hartikainen-Anisimov-Yakupov
I wouldn't mind Anisimov, gives Yakupov another Russian, and he is young enough to fit into our core group. I'd hesitate to trade Hemsky for him, but Gagner + a pick makes more sense.

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01-23-2013, 05:28 PM
  #997
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The Sharks didn't even try after the 1st was over. There was nowhere near the quality chances in the 2nd and 3rd. I'm not going to sit here and argue that Dubnyk was playing good because he wasn't but the two situations are not comparable.
There was definitely some quality chances in the 2nd. Danis was able to make the saves though, so no one is talking about the bad defensive break downs.

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01-23-2013, 05:32 PM
  #998
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I wouldn't mind Anisimov, gives Yakupov another Russian, and he is young enough to fit into our core group. I'd hesitate to trade Hemsky for him, but Gagner + a pick makes more sense.
Columbus just traded Rick Nash for a bunch of lesser players.

They aren't going to trade those lesser players for even lesser players.

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01-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #999
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Columbus just traded Rick Nash for a bunch of lesser players.

They aren't going to trade those lesser players for even lesser players.
It's debatable that Hemsky and Gagner are lesser players than Anisimov and Umberger. It's a matter of addressing positional needs. In the Nash trade, the Jackets just went for the best value they could get. They didn't necessarily need the players they got in return. Having Brassard, Dubinsky, Anisimov & Umberger as capable top 6/9 centermen and with Johansen in the system it's quite plausible they could trade one for a skilled winger.

Not to mention Howsen could value guys like Hemsky a bit higher than other GMs for obvious reasons.

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01-23-2013, 05:45 PM
  #1000
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It's debatable that Hemsky and Gagner are lesser players than Anisimov. It's a matter of addressing positional needs. In the Nash trade, the Jackets just went for the best value they could get. They didn't necessarily need the players they got in return. Having Brassard, Dubinsky, Anisimov & Umberger as capable top 6/9 centermen and with Johansen in the system it's quite plausible they could trade one for a skilled winger.

Not to mention Howsen could value guys like Hemsky a bit higher than other GMs for obvious reasons.
I was referring more to the Gagner and a pick part. Should've specified.

I'm not sure I would trade Hemsky for Anisimov.

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