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This should have been done YEARS ago...

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Old
06-24-2006, 09:30 PM
  #1
PSP
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This should have been done YEARS ago...

It didn't take very long for DL to come to the same conclusion that many of us did years ago - the Kings were a mediocre team at best and required a complete overhaul. The BEST way to accomplish this was to blow up what they had - dump older assets and pick up young studs with a goal to be seriously competitive in the very near future. That's what DL started today with his first real moves.

Sure, it might not be pretty for the next season or two, but in the long run we'll all be happy with the results.

REAL fans won't care - they'll see this as a necessary evil...

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06-24-2006, 09:42 PM
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riseandfall9
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They got rid of the only Asset that was helping the team. If they dont get rid of Aaron Miller , Nathan Dempsey , Mattias Norstrom , Brent Sopel... then they arnt rebuilding because those are MONEY PITS.

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06-24-2006, 09:45 PM
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Chazz Reinhold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riseandfall9
They got rid of the only Asset that was helping the team. If they dont get rid of Aaron Miller , Nathan Dempsey , Mattias Norstrom , Brent Sopel... then they arnt rebuilding because those are MONEY PITS.
In case you weren't aware, none of those players have anywhere close to as much value as Demitra. Norstrom has the most value of the above players, but I doubt the Kings would get very much in return for him.

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06-24-2006, 09:48 PM
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We may have lost an asset, but we lost an asset that cost us nothing, we also lost an asset that had value, would miller norstrom sopel or dempsey have gotten even a late first round pick? Demitra is a good player, but what we got was allot better, we got more financial flexability, a blue chip prospect at center, and the #17 overall pick. Sure I would have preferred the loss of miller norstrom sopel or dempsey, but especialy the latter 2 would have yeilded yet more problems. I dont like it but we are stuck with Sopel for a while, lets see if he can play well enough while healthy to raise his trade value.

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06-24-2006, 09:48 PM
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riseandfall9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold
In case you weren't aware, none of those players have anywhere close to as much value as Demitra. Norstrom has the most value of the above players, but I doubt the Kings would get very much in return for him.
Yeah, I am aware that these players are the best players on our defense and no team wants them. LOL

We dont need a great return for them just getting rid of there salarys is enough.

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06-24-2006, 09:50 PM
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Plus at his news conference, Lombardi called Matty a "warrior" and intimated that several teams would "kill" for players like Norstrom.

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06-24-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
It didn't take very long for DL to come to the same conclusion that many of us did years ago - the Kings were a mediocre team at best and required a complete overhaul. The BEST way to accomplish this was to blow up what they had - dump older assets and pick up young studs with a goal to be seriously competitive in the very near future. That's what DL started today with his first real moves.

Sure, it might not be pretty for the next season or two, but in the long run we'll all be happy with the results.

REAL fans won't care - they'll see this as a necessary evil...

I agree with you PSP....the fans here who have suffered through 15 or more years of craptacular Kings teams will see this as a necessary evil. Those who are new to the Kings probably cannot understand this but will just have to learn that this is how winners are made.

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06-24-2006, 10:22 PM
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We'll have to wait to see what Lombardi does during free agency before we know if it's a rebuild or not.

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06-24-2006, 10:25 PM
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It is also an indication that DL and not TL is calling the shots. This could hurt ticket sales near term, but is the right thing to do if the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. Next year will be fun as the Kings got a bit younger and hopefully faster today.

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06-24-2006, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piston
It is also an indication that DL and not TL is calling the shots.
Not so fast. The Times reported the other day that DL met with TL and Anschutz to "discuss" the direction of the team. I'm sure that DL sought and received permission to trade Demitra if a deal that made sense came along.

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06-24-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
We'll have to wait to see what Lombardi does during free agency before we know if it's a rebuild or not.
Free agency has nothing to do with rebuilding.

Rebuilding means getting rid of aged veterans while stock piling and keeping prospects. Since signing free agents does not cost prospects or draft picks it does not mean that signing a couple of free agents AND rebuilding your team are mutually exclusive.

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06-24-2006, 10:37 PM
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I said in the thread about the article in this morning's LA Times that I could deal with another rebuild if you could guarantee that 3-5 years from now this team is going to be competitive every year for a top spot in the conference, go deep in the playoffs and make appearances in the Stanley Cup finals and be competitive like that for a long time.

When I was watching the draft and they said a big deal for LA and Minnesota, my first thought was we were getting Gaborik. I figured with the Luongo rumors, there was no way Lombardi was going to do a full rebuild. Then when they started saying Demitra might be involved at first I was a little bit angry, going from thinking we were getting Gaborik to rebuild mode in about 30 seconds wasn't easy. Then the more I started to think about it, I know the rebuild is the right thing to do. They really do need to get some fresh blood and new ways of thinking into the organization. And I don't think it's going to take 5 years either because they've already got some great young forwards and added another in O'Sullivan today.

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06-24-2006, 10:38 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Not so fast. The Times reported the other day that DL met with TL and Anschutz to "discuss" the direction of the team. I'm sure that DL sought and received permission to trade Demitra if a deal that made sense came along.
Disagree. Sure they met, but that is normal for an employee of a company to meet with the CEO to update him/her on progress. There is no indication from the article or any other source that PA and TL told DL anything other than to do what was best to win the Cup.

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Old
06-24-2006, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Rebuilding means getting rid of aged veterans while stock piling and keeping prospects. Since signing free agents does not cost prospects or draft picks it does not mean that signing a couple of free agents AND rebuilding your team are mutually exclusive.
Trading away only Demitra and then going out and signing Elias and Chara, for example, is not a rebuild. You may consider it that, but most people don't. I call it "renovating." Trading Demitra, only to then sign Elias, is like knocking down a wall so that you can add an extension to your house. That's a renovation. A rebuild would be knocking down the house and starting from the foundations.

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06-24-2006, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP

REAL fans won't care - they'll see this as a necessary evil...

Since when are you a real fan?


But beyond that we dump our best player for a projected 3rd liner and a AHL all-star (although I like O'Sullivan think he is going to be good, but he is no Pavol). Goodie. I am also not completly sure how you can think dumping 1 guy is some radical change to the team?

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06-24-2006, 10:48 PM
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danaluvsthekings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
Free agency has nothing to do with rebuilding.

Rebuilding means getting rid of aged veterans while stock piling and keeping prospects. Since signing free agents does not cost prospects or draft picks it does not mean that signing a couple of free agents AND rebuilding your team are mutually exclusive.
No but if you're going to rebuild your team and you want to see if the young players you have can make it as first or 2nd line players in the NHL, going out and signing a bunch of big name forwards so the kids aren't going to get 1st line ice time/power play time, does not seem real conducive to seeing what those kids can do either. You need some vets around for leadership and teaching purposes, but you can't sign so many vets that you're not going to give the kids the ice time either.

Using Gleason as an example, if the Kings are serious about Gleason becoming a top 4 defensemen, they've got to play him there this season, increase his ice time over last season. Let him see some power play time this year. But if you go out and sign another offensive defenseman to go along with Visnovsky and Sopel, then Gleason doesn't see power play time yet again. This doesn't help Gleason develop. Going out and signing a couple of wingers so Brown doesn't get top 6 ice time doesn't help the rebuilding process either and probably stunts Brown's development.

Lombardi made the point this morning in the Times that the Kings havn't been bad enough to get a top 5 pick, but they havn't been great enough where they're picking in the last 10 picks of the 1st round, where you don't mind as much because you're having success. They've been stuck in the middle, picking right around where scouts say the talent starts to drop off. If they're going full rebuild, there's no real point in signing a couple of big name forwards because all that's going to do is continue the trend of mediocrity, not bad enough to get the great young prospects like Pittsburgh's got the last 5 years now, and not great enough to go deep in the playoffs every year.

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Old
06-24-2006, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Since when are you a real fan?


But beyond that we dump our best player for a projected 3rd liner and a AHL all-star (although I like O'Sullivan think he is going to be good, but he is no Pavol). Goodie. I am also not completly sure how you can think dumping 1 guy is some radical change to the team?
Demitra is a china doll. He's a really good player when healthy.

Look at it this way, you freed up 4 million dollars and acquired a top six forward prospect in the process although I'm not sure why Lombardi took Lewis.

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06-24-2006, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Trading away only Demitra and then going out and signing Elias and Chara, for example, is not a rebuild. You may consider it that, but most people don't. I call it "renovating." Trading Demitra, only to then sign Elias, is like knocking down a wall so that you can add an extension to your house. That's a renovation. A rebuild would be knocking down the house and starting from the foundations.
So if trading Demitra is just knocking down a wall then what if the Kings don't sign any free agents? That wouldn't be a rebuild either. It would mean you just have one less wall. It would not be considered a rebuild until Norstrom Miller and Conroy were traded. So like I said the free agency moves are meaningless in a rebuild. The Kings could rebuild the team while getting a premiere UFA just to fill the seats. And the fans wouldn't even be aware that they were watching a "rebuilding" team.

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06-24-2006, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadite
Since when are you a real fan?
Since 1973.....

If you had been paying attention instead of kissing management's a$$, you would realize that many of us have been calling for the team to pick one plan or the other for YEARS. Either fully rebuild with young players or go for it now - pick one, either one....but just MAKE A F'ING DECISION! DT and crew never could. They tried to play both at once - with the expected results.

The Kings FINALLY got a real live professional to make these decisions, and so far he's made one move. From his statements, DL has indicated that his direction would be consistent. I expect that the Demitra dump is just the first of many such moves.

Maybe someday you'll be able to see the big picture instead of your simple-minded acceptance of status quo.

Then again, in your case, ignorance IS bliss.....

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06-25-2006, 12:03 AM
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The kings have been lost in space since the gretzky era ended. They were never bad enough to have a top 3 pick in the draft (except aki berg 3rd overall but turned out a bust). They have always been in the middle fighting for a palyoff spot. deano is going in the right direction. I don't mind sucking for a couple of years as long as we build a winnner with youngster. Something DT wasn't committed to as we saw in the parrish disaster losing greb and tambs.

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06-25-2006, 04:44 AM
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They have all the younger studs they really need. Dave Taylor at least did a good job of that. Kopitar, Tukonen, Pushkarev, Petiot, these guys don't suck, and they should all see NHL time next year, in fact I'd be a bit suprised if Kopitar didn't make the Kings out of camp...

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06-25-2006, 06:46 AM
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They were never bad enough to have a top 3 pick in the draft (except aki berg 3rd overall but turned out a bust).
Jokinen in 97 too. They never should've traded him, regardless of Palffy, or that Palffy left. Jokinen was going to be the central player in the post-Gretzky era, and they gave up on that way too quick.

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06-25-2006, 07:46 AM
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One thing that nobody's talking about is the fact that DL did some investigative work after getting hired in order to figure out what caused the locker room to fall into dissarray. If I remember he said it was a whole lot of little mole hills. Couple this with the fact that he wants guys who will go through a wall (although O'Sullivan doesn't quite fit that mold he does fit it moreso than Demitra) and I think there may have been character issues with Demitra as well. Part of this trade, in my eyes, is getting that locker room chemistry around to where it's a winner's mentality rather than a "take the money and let's go surfing" mentality. The Lewis pick also seems to be in the mold of the new NHL and I like the fact that he's proven he'll work hard and has seen success from it. I think this will inspire him to keep working hard. Could be a Marco Sturm type pick.

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06-25-2006, 08:20 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
Since 1973.....

If you had been paying attention instead of kissing management's a$$, you would realize that many of us have been calling for the team to pick one plan or the other for YEARS. Either fully rebuild with young players or go for it now - pick one, either one....but just MAKE A F'ING DECISION! DT and crew never could. They tried to play both at once - with the expected results.

The Kings FINALLY got a real live professional to make these decisions, and so far he's made one move. From his statements, DL has indicated that his direction would be consistent. I expect that the Demitra dump is just the first of many such moves.

Maybe someday you'll be able to see the big picture instead of your simple-minded acceptance of status quo.

Then again, in your case, ignorance IS bliss.....

Best post EVER!

(and more true than luddites will EVER know.)

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06-25-2006, 09:48 AM
  #25
Wayne Rutledge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
Since 1973.....

If you had been paying attention instead of kissing management's a$$, you would realize that many of us have been calling for the team to pick one plan or the other for YEARS. Either fully rebuild with young players or go for it now - pick one, either one....but just MAKE A F'ING DECISION! DT and crew never could. They tried to play both at once - with the expected results.

The Kings FINALLY got a real live professional to make these decisions, and so far he's made one move. From his statements, DL has indicated that his direction would be consistent. I expect that the Demitra dump is just the first of many such moves.

Maybe someday you'll be able to see the big picture instead of your simple-minded acceptance of status quo.

Then again, in your case, ignorance IS bliss.....
GREAT Post PSP! I think most of the complaints here are from youngsters or bandwagonners who don't know the Kings pathetic history of drafts and trades. Trivia: After the Kings best season in history (1974-75 105 points) they went downhill after that and were never the same -- what happened? Answer: Traded our two best leaders Terry Harper and Dan Maloney for some guy named Marcel Dionne. The Point: Don't make trades just for the sake of getting a top skilled player and assume it will make you a contender. Chemistry and Leadership is what wins and I think that is what DL will bring during his tenure.

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