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2014 Memorial Cup Location

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01-22-2013, 06:53 PM
  #76
Kingpin794
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Originally Posted by 4 Bobby ORR View Post
Not sure if you can get any clearer than this straight from the horse's mouth. Losing our 1st rounder will only affect us with regards to being a trading asset. The biggest obstacle will be how good the team will be next year and apparently the sanctions should have no bearing on the bid process.
What people are told will or won’t happen and what actually happens are two very different things and they almost never line up. So while Branch is saying that the sanctions will have no effect on Windsor’s bid, I have to imagine that couldn’t be farther from the truth. The reality is it would be a complete joke if Windsor was awarded the 2014 Memorial cup. Just a straight up, really bad joke. Will they have the team? Maybe. Do they have the arena? Definitely. Can they promise a good monetary return? Probably. Would it be a huge embarrassment for the league if they get the bid? Absolutely! And I think that is the one thing that trumps all of the other factors that work in Windsor’s favor.

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01-22-2013, 06:57 PM
  #77
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Would it be a huge embarrassment for the league if they get the bid? Absolutely!
Explain.

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01-22-2013, 07:06 PM
  #78
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Explain.
What's to explain. Handing the CHL's signature event to a team that just got caught cheating would be a complete joke and an embarrassment to the league. It's pretty simple.

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01-22-2013, 07:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
What's to explain. Handing the CHL's signature event to a team that just got caught cheating would be a complete joke and an embarrassment to the league. It's pretty simple.
a) you're assuming Windsor is the only team who's cheated.

b) their activities have zero to do with the event. It's a situation of the past. If they beat out London, Kitchener, Oshawa, SSM, or whomever else bids, why shouldn't they get it?

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01-22-2013, 09:18 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
I don't see the team losing their pick this coming draft as a big influence on the whole situation. One player, a 16-year old at that, won't make the difference between a first-place team and a fifth-place team. How we perform in the standings has little to do with that pick.
But they could have played the defected player game and traded that player for a buttload of picks and then traded those picks for a Shugg and Cantin type package. Or we could have drafted the 16 yr old, played him sparingly on the 4th line and then traded him come the January window for a Trocheck or Ceci type player.

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01-22-2013, 10:29 PM
  #81
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But they could have played the defected player game and traded that player for a buttload of picks and then traded those picks for a Shugg and Cantin type package. Or we could have drafted the 16 yr old, played him sparingly on the 4th line and then traded him come the January window for a Trocheck or Ceci type player.


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01-23-2013, 09:06 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
a) you're assuming Windsor is the only team who's cheated.

b) their activities have zero to do with the event. It's a situation of the past. If they beat out London, Kitchener, Oshawa, SSM, or whomever else bids, why shouldn't they get it?
a) Don't try to guess what I assume. I never said Windsor was the only team that did this. THEY GOT CAUGHT THOUGH. So I was correct when I said they cheated.

b) See previous post.

I going to set this out for you one last time: It would be a complete joke and no one would take this league seriously if the cheating Windsor Spitfires were awarded the CHL's signature event. I doubt the CHL wants to make the memorial cup a joke. Although I porbably shouldn't ASSUME that. If you need explaining why this would be, try someone else. I don't know how to make it any simpler.

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01-23-2013, 09:33 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
a) Don't try to guess what I assume. I never said Windsor was the only team that did this. THEY GOT CAUGHT THOUGH. So I was correct when I said they cheated.

b) See previous post.

I going to set this out for you one last time: It would be a complete joke and no one would take this league seriously if the cheating Windsor Spitfires were awarded the CHL's signature event. I doubt the CHL wants to make the memorial cup a joke. Although I porbably shouldn't ASSUME that. If you need explaining why this would be, try someone else. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
The only thing the CHL cares about is if the event sells out and they have good sponsors on board. Like I said I don't think Windsor will get it but that has nothing to do with them being caught cheating.

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01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
a) Don't try to guess what I assume. I never said Windsor was the only team that did this. THEY GOT CAUGHT THOUGH. So I was correct when I said they cheated.

b) See previous post.

I going to set this out for you one last time: It would be a complete joke and no one would take this league seriously if the cheating Windsor Spitfires were awarded the CHL's signature event. I doubt the CHL wants to make the memorial cup a joke. Although I porbably shouldn't ASSUME that. If you need explaining why this would be, try someone else. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
I know exactly what your point is; Windsor cheated, so don't give them the Cup or else it's a joke. You've made it perfectly clear. However, you are implying Windsor is the only one who's cheating. If another team gets the hosting spot, who's to say they cheated and simply haven't been caught yet? The sanction on the Spits should have zero effect on what happens with this bidding process. If they get it and it's not your cup o' tea, then that's your issue, not anyone else's.

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01-23-2013, 01:38 PM
  #85
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Kingston WOULD be great, the K-Rock Centre is nice BUT my concern is the visitors dressing rooms. There are 6 rooms and they are all grouped together with the referees room. Get an intense game like a memorial cup game and you may need security on either side of a curtian to hold the boys back.

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01-23-2013, 03:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
However, you are implying Windsor is the only one who's cheating. If another team gets the hosting spot, who's to say they cheated and simply haven't been caught yet? The sanction on the Spits should have zero effect on what happens with this bidding process. If they get it and it's not your cup o' tea, then that's your issue, not anyone else's.
So you're just going to ignore the fact they cheated or try to rationalize to yourself that everyone does it, so it's OK. Great.

Again, I never stated that Windsor was the only team that may be guilty of cheating. I don't imply anything. I simply stated the fact that Windsor got caught. You added whatever hidden meaning you wanted. If I wanted to imply that no one else cheats I would have said it. But I think the opposite is true.

WINDSOR MOST LIKELY IS NOT THE ONLY TEAM THAT CHEATS.
(There you go)

But they got caught which means there was proof. Something that other teams don't have against them. Which means that handing other teams the bid would not carry the same negative attention that giving Windsor the bid would. I can't sit here and try to guess specifically who else has cheated because I have no proof and neither do you (probably not). Until that proof comes in, other teams have to be better options than Windsor.

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01-23-2013, 04:29 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
So you're just going to ignore the fact they cheated or try to rationalize to yourself that everyone does it, so it's OK. Great.

Again, I never stated that Windsor was the only team that may be guilty of cheating. I don't imply anything. I simply stated the fact that Windsor got caught. You added whatever hidden meaning you wanted. If I wanted to imply that no one else cheats I would have said it. But I think the opposite is true.

WINDSOR MOST LIKELY IS NOT THE ONLY TEAM THAT CHEATS.
(There you go)

But they got caught which means there was proof. Something that other teams don't have against them. Which means that handing other teams the bid would not carry the same negative attention that giving Windsor the bid would. I can't sit here and try to guess specifically who else has cheated because I have no proof and neither do you (probably not). Until that proof comes in, other teams have to be better options than Windsor.
Where did I ignore the fact they did wrong? It's cut and dry. We don't know for certain what they did, but something happened. I'm not rationalizing anything, either. I'm simply stating that Windsor has faced the music, got their punishment, and now they should have every right to bid on the Cup just like others. If the media decides to spin it negatively, that's their decision. There are plenty of other ways to spin it, too.

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01-23-2013, 06:35 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Where did I ignore the fact they did wrong?
Look, you have to at least acknowledge that even if they say it shouldn't effect the bid, the people that decide who gets the memorial cup with have the thought of Windsor cheating in the back of their mind. And this will probably have an effect on the bid. It something that can't be avoided. You can't simply tell someone to not let it influence their decision. It will, one way or another.

So when you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
The sanction on the Spits should have zero effect on what happens with this bidding process.
To me it sounds like you are ignoring that they cheated.

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01-23-2013, 08:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kingpin794 View Post
Look, you have to at least acknowledge that even if they say it shouldn't effect the bid, the people that decide who gets the memorial cup with have the thought of Windsor cheating in the back of their mind. And this will probably have an effect on the bid. It something that can't be avoided. You can't simply tell someone to not let it influence their decision. It will, one way or another.

So when you said this:



To me it sounds like you are ignoring that they cheated.
It could be in the back of their minds, but it should have zero influence on it. The Spits have been punished by the league. That's the end of that situation, other than the picks they'll lose.

To me, this is like a kid who gets in trouble at school and gets suspended. If the kid has the accolades and goes for an award later in that year, does the school go "well, you were in trouble before, so maybe you don't deserve it"? I'd hope not. If he's earned it, he gets in. Punishment was dealt out prior to this. If people want to complain..."he's done this, this, and this, all of which are criteria for the award."

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01-23-2013, 08:36 PM
  #90
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OHLTG: Let's just say we'll agree to disagree.

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01-23-2013, 09:24 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
To me, this is like a kid who gets in trouble at school and gets suspended. If the kid has the accolades and goes for an award later in that year, does the school go "well, you were in trouble before, so maybe you don't deserve it"? I'd hope not. If he's earned it, he gets in. Punishment was dealt out prior to this. If people want to complain..."he's done this, this, and this, all of which are criteria for the award."
For most of the prestigious awards, that is exactly what would happen. When you're talking about the highest accolades, a significant misstep would probably rule you out. Whether it should happen or not can be debated, but to think all is forgotten is probably a little hopeful on your part. Only a few months until we find out one way or the other...

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01-23-2013, 09:37 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
For most of the prestigious awards, that is exactly what would happen. When you're talking about the highest accolades, a significant misstep would probably rule you out. Whether it should happen or not can be debated, but to think all is forgotten is probably a little hopeful on your part. Only a few months until we find out one way or the other...
I'm not saying all is forgotten, but I don't believe it should play a part. One has nothing to do with the other.

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01-24-2013, 03:59 AM
  #93
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I'm not saying all is forgotten, but I don't believe it should play a part. One has nothing to do with the other.
I'm saying in your example of school, it absolutely would. If you had a suspension on your record, you're probably out of the running for Valedictorian or other Student Leadership awards. Look no further than the HOF selection process in baseball. Players were eliminated based on their use of steroids. Some would/should have qualified based on their results before their reported use (Bonds/Clemens) and others haven't made it seems just because they played in that era and there are some suspicions of cheating (Bagwell).

Like I said you can debate the relative merits or "justness" of it, but it almost assuredly will be playing a role in the decision making process...People just don't put these sorts of things out of their minds (whether they tell you they do or not).

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01-24-2013, 08:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I'm saying in your example of school, it absolutely would. If you had a suspension on your record, you're probably out of the running for Valedictorian or other Student Leadership awards. Look no further than the HOF selection process in baseball. Players were eliminated based on their use of steroids. Some would/should have qualified based on their results before their reported use (Bonds/Clemens) and others haven't made it seems just because they played in that era and there are some suspicions of cheating (Bagwell).

Like I said you can debate the relative merits or "justness" of it, but it almost assuredly will be playing a role in the decision making process...People just don't put these sorts of things out of their minds (whether they tell you they do or not).
Baseball and this aren't the same thing. Steroids played a direct part in how the players performed. The Spitfires stuff and the Memorial Cup are not directly related.

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01-24-2013, 09:33 AM
  #95
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Baseball and this aren't the same thing. Steroids played a direct part in how the players performed. The Spitfires stuff and the Memorial Cup are not directly related.
I disagree - Bagwell has never been confirmed of anything, and Clemens/Bonds were well on their way to the hall before they went to Toronto/SF respectively. They cheated to win and so did the Spitfires current management team.

I guess we'll just wait and see. If the Spitfires don't get it for 2014 either it will have played a part or they were never really a strong consideration in 2011 to begin with.

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01-24-2013, 09:46 AM
  #96
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I disagree - Bagwell has never been confirmed of anything, and Clemens/Bonds were well on their way to the hall before they went to Toronto/SF respectively. They cheated to win and so did the Spitfires current management team.

I guess we'll just wait and see. If the Spitfires don't get it for 2014 either it will have played a part or they were never really a strong consideration in 2011 to begin with.
We'll agree to disagree on Bonds Never been a fan of his.

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01-24-2013, 11:34 AM
  #97
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I think not knowing the extent of the violations is playing into if the sanctions will play a part or not. When looking at the penalty with Portland and what they did, then Windsor's penalty and later reduced penalty. I have a hard time believing that Windsor cheated as much as they just broke a rule. Like paying for a kids' cell phone or a hotel room for a parent, things of that nature as examples. Not paying a kid several thousand to report who wouldn't other wise report. That's part of the double edged sword of not announcing the violations in detail.

If Windsor comes in with a strong bid, one that meets the criteria that is qualified as a winning bid does the board turn it away because of a minor infraction that came with a heavy penalty? Time will tell.

One thing I don't agree with is why if the committee who chooses the winning bid has already disqualified Windsor's bid before hand make it official and save one of it's franchises the resources and time of preparing a bid. Much the same if they have determined that London has hosted recently and will not win regardless.

Teams that bid are going to put their best forward regardless of the competitors. I don't think any team wants to be a laughing stock in front of the entire country.

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01-24-2013, 12:12 PM
  #98
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http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/lo...4-memorial-cup

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01-24-2013, 12:28 PM
  #99
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The Storm would be at a fiscal disadvantage in what they could guarantee the Canadian Hockey League and still at least break even, given Guelph’s rink capacity is roughly 60 per cent of what London and Windsor offer.
60% of Windsor's and closer to 50% of London's

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01-24-2013, 12:54 PM
  #100
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60% of Windsor's and closer to 50% of London's
Not sure why teams like Guelph or Owen Sound couldn't swing a deal with a neighbouring city that has a larger arena when that neighbouring city isn't bidding?
ie: Owen Sound to Barrie
Guelph to Kitchener or Copps Coliseum?
Sarnia to London

Otherwise those OHL teams would never have a prayer to be the host team in the Memorial Cup.
It may actually help to share the bid expense.

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