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P.K. Subban Thread - 5.0 - The "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" Edition

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01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #576
Des Louise
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All the crap we've been going through ever since the Houle days with incompetent GM after incompetent GM... I don't think I can stand another ****** in the GM chair. If Subban is dealt for anything less than an equal value player, this could be the straw for me after 20 years.

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01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
this is a stupid comment, why the helle would Meehan more familiar with the market rate than Bergevin, Bergevin wasn't GM, but he asn't live in a monestry for the last 10 years... he knows stuff.... please.....
Both Stan Bowman and Bergevin himself said that Bergevin is "not a numbers guy", of course his team isn't living under a rock but negotiating player contracts is something Meehan does every single day, and he had no problem getting Markov and Emelin numbers they were happy with - the latter taking one of those mystical bridge contracts. Why do you think so many great players hire Meehan? Because he gets them paid, and you don't do that by making ridiculous demands.

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01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
  #578
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If we trade Subban, we better get a HELL of a big return for him.

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01-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Bergevin - along with Therrien - appreciate a strong work ethic and a general good attitude. When he walks into negociations with a young kid who hasn't even been training yet, and hears the numbers he's asking for without thinking about taking any less, he does not see that attitude he so much desires. He wants his guys to think of the team first and he doesn't see that at all when he hears the terms being thrown around from Subban and Meehan.

All it takes is for Subban to say, "You know what? Give me that bridge contract. I just want to play." Then in 2 years, Bergevin will be more than happy to give a larger contract to a Subban that is a bit older, a bit more mature, and has shown he was willing to give back to the team before taking a lot of money.

That's why I believe Bergevin is not budging. If I'm correct, I cannot fault him at all.
You're quite right, although he is a good player, he's not nearly the player people on this forum think he is, there's more to being a professional athlete than flash and being a fan favourite. Subban first has to commit to being a professional, this management team has not seen that yet, it's a business, management will only commit millions of dollars to an asset, (Subban is an asset) which they feel will benefit the organization as a whole, not just the individual.
For those saying that Bergevin should be fired should he trade Subban is ridiculous, what if he acquired Shea Weber for Subban, should he still be fired

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01-23-2013, 08:35 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Viggo Mortensen View Post
Im starting to wonder if Subban means it when he says he wants to play his career in Mtl. You don't holdout like that because you don't like a bridge contract.

Also, every player's goal should be to win the SC, and when you holdout like that, you are not helping the team get to that goal.

He's a good player, fun to watch on and off the ice, I would be crushed if we trade him
Subban goes 110% every time he is on the ice, with how often injuries occur these days the last thing a player like him would want is to take a bridge contract and have a career threatening injury occur before he can sign another contract. Lots of his peers around his age have signed big money, long-term deals recently so it only makes sense for someone like him who has proven to be a top-2 defenseman to go after a long-term deal at this point.

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01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post

....

That's why I believe Bergevin is not budging. If I'm correct, I cannot fault him at all.
I generally support this opinion. But I have zero interest in debating this issue, as we have no influence anyway.

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01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Both Stan Bowman and Bergevin himself said that Bergevin is "not a numbers guy", of course his team isn't living under a rock but negotiating player contracts is something Meehan does every single day, and he had no problem getting Markov and Emelin numbers they were happy with - the latter taking one of those mystical bridge contracts. Why do you think so many great players hire Meehan? Because he gets them paid, and you don't do that by making ridiculous demands.
Sure you do. You make a ridiculous demand and hold out for a week or two while the GM feels the sting of the fans. You may not get what you asked for but you're more likely to get more than you deserve.

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01-23-2013, 08:40 PM
  #583
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If we trade Subban, we better get a HELL of a big return for him.
Eberle!

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01-23-2013, 08:40 PM
  #584
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Stop. PK has been training just as much as any other player this offseason. Conditioning is NEVER an issue for PK. He's a very hard worker so if Therrien and Bergevin think PK's work ethic and attitude need to be upgraded then they are both fools.

As far as giving back. The team dumped a rookie into a tough position where he had to be the guy for 2 years. He was hunted by every team and the previous administration did nothing to protect him. Then you have the audacity to say he should "give back" when he gets a lowball offer? C'mon man.

I still don't get the maturity issue. He's involved in a lot of programs that help people. He helped Laraque in Haiti. Where were the other Habs? He's an exuberant guy and some don't know how to handle it. I think as a man he's very mature. He just may not be up to the NHL's archaic standards with how a young player is supposed to act.

In 2 years time I can see the same "maturity" complaint. That will follow him for the rest of his career.

It's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Chainz View Post
Subban is in unbelievable shape and has been training all summer and through the lockout.
I meant on-ice training with the team. I won't question his ability to enter a gym and lift weights or run a treadmill. He likely does that every day, for several hours.

What does last year have to do with this year? "Last year's regime sucked and they did little to protect their players." You don't say! Enter Bergevin: signs Prust, signs Armstrong, signs Bouillon. Suddenly we have ourselves a team to watch that plays with tons of sandpaper.

Tell me. When Gallagher went straight to the net last night after the whistle, what happened? Did he got jumped on? Nope. Did he get wrestled down to the ice? Nope. You know why? Because right behind him was Prust, protecting him. What happened when Gorges got hit into the boards, from behind? White came in with his gloves already dropped and went right after Fleischmann.

Bergevin has went a great length to surround his team with guys that are willing to protect their team at all cost. Michel Therrien did the right thing to stick Gallagher and Galchenyuk with Prust, a guy who can make sure neither one of them is targeted by cheap tactics. Yet you are willing to tell me that management has done nothing to protect Subban, yet offer last year as your proof? Please. If anything, management has made sure Subban will never have to drop his gloves again and attempt a fight against Marchand.

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Old
01-23-2013, 08:41 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Corey's wife? I'm pretty sure that's made up.

Chelios was a wild man though. Rumours of him having a bbq and getting naked, that kind of stuff. Remember, we're talking about a guy who ordered the trade of Guy Carbonneau because he flipped off a reporter.
more than one people told me about that about Chelly and mrs Corey .... and some of them i have a tendency to believe..... but since we don't know for sure, i cannot garantee it's the reason he got traded, and you can't say Savard did not have a reason to trade him, let's leave it at that....

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01-23-2013, 08:42 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
If we trade Subban, we better get a HELL of a big return for him.
Did we get good return for Chelios, Roy? By trading PK, our GM is ********. How are we going to get another Number 1 D? None of our prospect has similar ability as PK. Another team is not going to give us a similar defenseman. Look at the Oilers. Despite all the young offensive dymamo, they still finish last with a poor defense and average goalie. We already have Price. PK is a great defenseman to build a strong back end. If we ending up trading PK, I will put MB in the same class as Rejean Houle.

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01-23-2013, 08:42 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Bergevin - along with Therrien - appreciate a strong work ethic and a general good attitude. When he walks into negociations with a young kid who hasn't even been training yet, and hears the numbers he's asking for without thinking about taking any less, he does not see that attitude he so much desires. He wants his guys to think of the team first and he doesn't see that at all when he hears the terms being thrown around from Subban and Meehan.

All it takes is for Subban to say, "You know what? Give me that bridge contract. I just want to play." Then in 2 years, Bergevin will be more than happy to give a larger contract to a Subban that is a bit older, a bit more mature, and has shown he was willing to give back to the team before taking a lot of money.

That's why I believe Bergevin is not budging. If I'm correct, I cannot fault him at all.
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Subban has been training hard, he did exactly what he was expected to. If he went to play in Europe we'd hear the same attempts to assassinate his character, much as we have with Markov who apparently was "selfish" for playing in the KHL. You can't win here. It's not his fault there was a lockout, in fact unlike the good old "character" boys Gorges, Cole and Gionta who are already sitting on nice fat contracts, he had nothing to gain from the lockout.

As it has been broken down countless times already, Subban's peers - guys like Myers, Karlsson and Doughty have already recieved their long term contracts. Pietrangelo and McDonagh haven't reached this stage yet. Subban isn't in the same league as the MDZ's and Kulikov's of the world, even if he's not quite Doughty either.

The Habs need Subban more than he needs them. He will be a top pairing defenseman anywhere. The fact that he wants a long term contract means he wants to play for the Habs, because he's only going to be worth more in 2 years.

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01-23-2013, 08:42 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Both Stan Bowman and Bergevin himself said that Bergevin is "not a numbers guy", of course his team isn't living under a rock but negotiating player contracts is something Meehan does every single day, and he had no problem getting Markov and Emelin numbers they were happy with - the latter taking one of those mystical bridge contracts. Why do you think so many great players hire Meehan? Because he gets them paid, and you don't do that by making ridiculous demands.
yeah but i'm sure he his surrounded by people who knows.... anyway....

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01-23-2013, 08:43 PM
  #589
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Guy Carbonneau and Co on the Antichambre said that Meehan suggested to PK to go with the 2 years.....and clearly PK doesn't want to. Interesting info though we need to be careful with that. If the Habs needs the fans to calm down on the PK request....the only thing to do is to leak some infos that Subban is the bad guy here.

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01-23-2013, 08:43 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
more than one people told me about that about Chelly and mrs Corey .... and some of them i have a tendency to believe..... but since we don't know for sure, i cannot garantee it's the reason he got traded, and you can't say Savard did not have a reason to trade him, let's leave it at that....
Well, assuming he didn't commit THAT deed, I'd say they had no reason. If it actually happened, well...

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01-23-2013, 08:44 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Guy Carbonneau and Co on the Antichambre said that Meehan suggested to PK to go with the 2 years.....and clearly PK doesn't want to.
Really?

Man this just makes no sense. We're getting all kinds of different stories, no idea what's true anymore.

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01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Guy Carbonneau and Co on the Antichambre said that Meehan suggested to PK to go with the 2 years.....and clearly PK doesn't want to. Interesting info though we need to be careful with that. If the Habs needs the fans to calm down on the PK request....the only thing to do is to leak some infos that Subban is the bad guy here.
Seriously? They said that?

Did Michel Bergeron and Carbonneau sneak into Meehan's house and tap his phone?

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01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
For those saying that Bergevin should be fired should he trade Subban is ridiculous, what if he acquired Shea Weber for Subban, should he still be fired
In this hypothetical scenario, GMMB believes Subban is asking for too much money and/or term, but is willing to trade him for a player signed to a 7.857mil cap hit through the age of 40? SWeber is the better player right now, but I would not be a fan of that trade.

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01-23-2013, 08:46 PM
  #594
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Sure you do. You make a ridiculous demand and hold out for a week or two while the GM feels the sting of the fans. You may not get what you asked for but you're more likely to get more than you deserve.
You rarely see the kind of character assassination that PK is getting for this though. Ask Kings fans if they wanted to chase Doughty out of town for holding out.

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01-23-2013, 08:46 PM
  #595
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For what it's worth, François Gagnon and Guy Carbonneau said on l'Antichambre that Don Meehan told Subban to take the two years deal but he refused.. At least refused for the moment.

Edit: Oops Whitesnake beat me to it!

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01-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Guy Carbonneau and Co on the Antichambre said that Meehan suggested to PK to go with the 2 years.....and clearly PK doesn't want to. Interesting info though we need to be careful with that. If the Habs needs the fans to calm down on the PK request....the only thing to do is to leak some infos that Subban is the bad guy here.
I don't believe this.

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01-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #597
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In this hypothetical scenario, GMMB believes Subban is asking for too much money and/or term, but is willing to trade him for a player signed to a 7.857mil cap hit through the age of 40?
Of course he would....Weber is not at his BRIDGE CONTRACCCCCCT!!!!!

Can't believe we didn't keep Gomez either....or let's take DiPietro and Luongo contracts as well....we don't care, they are not at their bridge contract either. But we'll trade Galchenyuk in 4 years because he will be at his infamous BRIDGE CONTRACCCCCCCT!

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01-23-2013, 08:49 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Guy Carbonneau and Co on the Antichambre said that Meehan suggested to PK to go with the 2 years.....and clearly PK doesn't want to. Interesting info though we need to be careful with that. If the Habs needs the fans to calm down on the PK request....the only thing to do is to leak some infos that Subban is the bad guy here.
Maybe. If it would be the case, we will never see Subban in a Habs jersey anymore.

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01-23-2013, 08:50 PM
  #599
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I don't believe that ****. Why would a player agent say that? What does he gain by revealing that information?

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01-23-2013, 08:51 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
You're quite right, although he is a good player, he's not nearly the player people on this forum think he is, there's more to being a professional athlete than flash and being a fan favourite. Subban first has to commit to being a professional, this management team has not seen that yet, it's a business, management will only commit millions of dollars to an asset, (Subban is an asset) which they feel will benefit the organization as a whole, not just the individual.
For those saying that Bergevin should be fired should he trade Subban is ridiculous, what if he acquired Shea Weber for Subban, should he still be fired
Considering that MB has been doing his best to drive the value of his asset down. Chances are he won't get fair value in a trade.

Considering MB thinks PK is only worth 3M, his capacity to evaluate talent is put in question here. So maybe he would be willing to trade Subban for say a MDZ or some other guy who isn't on Subban's level.

Basically... if Subban is traded forget about equal or better value.

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