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Hall + Gagner + 2013 1st rounder

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:31 PM
  #76
Asher
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I've never put a thread on "ignore" before, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:37 PM
  #77
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I've never put a thread on "ignore" before, but I guess there's a first time for everything.
you posted in the thread that you're going to ignore?

you win.

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by catters078 View Post
I get the feeling Jamie Benn doesnt want to be a dallas star (long term anyway)

To Dallas, Hall Gagner 1st
to Edmonton Benn
Lol, Hall alone is worth more then Benn

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:01 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
Lol, Hall alone is worth more then Benn
Keep thinking that.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Trillmike View Post
Keep thinking that.
He is younger and already better.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
He is younger and already better.
Benn is certainly the more well rounded player, and oh, look at that, he is better offensively so far as well. How is Hall better again? As a fan of neither team, I take Benn over Hall every chance I get.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:12 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
That's not an offer that pisses the other team off...thats just a downright horrible proposal that shows you don't have any concept of value. The Blues would not even trade Pietrangelo for that
So your idea of Pietrangelo's trade value is a former 1st overall, a 23 year old second line centre AND a potential lottery pick yet you say I have no concept of player value?

Think before you type.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:14 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
He is younger and already better.
How is Hall better than Benn? I'm not going to go deep into this debate again. Benn outscored Hall, tripled him in hits and plays every fwd position. I consider the two quite close offensively, but you have to take defense into account.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:16 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
So your idea of Pietrangelo's trade value is a former 1st overall, a 23 year old second line centre AND a potential lottery pick yet you say I have no concept of player value?

Think before you type.
Do you actually think the Blues would trade their young franchise D, one of the best defensman in the league? Without him, their D is a mess. Offense is not a problem right now, and certainly not enough of a problem to decimate their defense for offense. The Blues are not even a run and gun team. They NEED Pietrangelo. No, they would not trade Pietrangelo for that. It makes them far worse now. Nor do I think they have ANY need for Gagner. Your kidding yourself if you think they would accept that, let along throw in Backes like you originally proposed




How about you actually think about teams needs other than your own before you type? Blues cannot move Pietrangelo, especially if they are not even getting a defensman in return What your proposed value wise clearly favored the Oilers, and in terms of team needs, was brutal for the Blues. You only thought of ONE team. That's not how real life trades work. Go do that on NHL13

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:19 PM
  #85
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I know this post does nothing to further any sort of discussion,

But this thread makes me question my humanity.

Hall, Gagner, 1st
for
Tambellini's career.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:33 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mach1121 View Post
Lol, Hall alone is worth more then Benn
If and only if Benn is making it clear he desperately wants out of Dallas, I`d agree. Otherwise Hall for Benn seems fair to most likely favouring Edmonton.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:33 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Do you actually think the Blues would trade their young franchise D, one of the best defensman in the league? Without him, their D is a mess. Offense is not a problem right now, and certainly not enough of a problem to decimate their defense for offense. The Blues are not even a run and gun team. They NEED Pietrangelo. No, they would not trade Pietrangelo for that. It makes them far worse now. Nor do I think they have ANY need for Gagner. Your kidding yourself if you think they would accept that, let along throw in Backes like you originally proposed




How about you actually think about teams needs other than your own before you type? Blues cannot move Pietrangelo, especially if they are not even getting a defensman in return
Do you think the Oilers would trade their elite winger and future captain?

The only way that would ever happen is if a return like the one I posted were to occur. You can yammer on about the kind of system St. Louis runs but when all is said and done the values of Hall and Pietrangelo to their respective teams are very similar.

If you didn't realize from my initial post, I'm not playing NHL GM. I don't care what the St. Louis Blues need and don't care what your valuations after careful team assessments are. I'm responding to the initial post in this thread which asks what the aforementioned package should return.

There it is.

And like I said, they're not going to like it.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Do you think the Oilers would trade their elite winger and future captain?

The only way that would ever happen is if a return like the one I posted were to occur. You can yammer on about the kind of system St. Louis runs but when all is said and done the values of Hall and Pietrangelo to their respective teams are very similar.

If you didn't realize from my initial post, I'm not playing NHL GM. I don't care what the St. Louis Blues need and don't care what your valuations after careful team assessments are. I'm responding to the initial post in this thread which asks what the aforementioned package should return.

There it is.

And like I said, they're not going to like it.
This thread was not created by a Blues fan asking for these pieces to the Blues. It was created by an Edmonton fan. Don't create brutal proposals involving other teams because of something one of your fellow fans created



That's wonderful, glad you like Hall that much. Its still awful for the Blues. Oh, I see, you're running around creating proposals ignoring other teams needs simply based on how you value certain Edmonton players? This is a public forum, if you create proposals on here, expect opinions from the other teams perspective. The point of threads like these is to hear other people's opinions and perspective. If you don't want responses to your horrible proposals, either don't post them and keep them in your head, or go post them on the Oilers board.



And no, from your original post, it certainly looks like that is what you were proposing.



Edit: and I said the Blues would not trade Pietrangelo for that alone...you disagreed. You then respond talking about how much Hall means to the Oilers. How does that have anything to do with Pietrangelo's value? Or did you just decide to switch off that topic after it got uncomfortable for you?


Last edited by Avs44: 01-23-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old
01-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #89
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Benn is the better all around player, Hall is the better scorer, and I would say both have similar value since Hall is younger.

Both players obviously very important to each team. Hall is pretty much the driving force of the offense on a lot of nights, and his drive is unmatched.

I still believe he will be the Oilers captain within 2 years time.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:57 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillmike View Post
How is Hall better than Benn? I'm not going to go deep into this debate again. Benn outscored Hall, tripled him in hits and plays every fwd position. I consider the two quite close offensively, but you have to take defense into account.
scored more goals and took more shots while playing 10 ****ing less games and being 3 years younger...

What was Benn 3 years ago?

back to back Mem Cup MVP, former 1st overall pick and future captain of Oilers says GTFO..

I guess Bill Guerin was better than Modano since he outscored and outhit him for a couple yrs.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:01 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
This thread was not created by a Blues fan asking for these pieces to the Blues. It was created by an Edmonton fan. Don't create brutal proposals involving other teams because of something one of your fellow fans created
Just because one Oiler fan is on crack doesnt mean the rest cant defend the counter proposals..

If you dont like AP being mentioned in a Hall+1st+ thread then ignore this thread..

No one stops bringing up Yakupov in just about every thread around here..

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:05 PM
  #92
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I guess this is what it feels like when other teams fans see the "Gagner, Hemsky/Pajaarvi and a 2nd" for your superstar" threads. Not a decent offer in the bunch.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:09 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Just because one Oiler fan is on crack doesnt mean the rest cant defend the counter proposals..

If you dont like AP being mentioned in a Hall+1st+ thread then ignore this thread..

No one stops bringing up Yakupov in just about every thread around here..
Honestly, I am with you on discussing everything being fair game and also on Hall+1st holding a hell of a lot of value, but to be fair to Avs44, it really doesn`t take a genius to see that the Blues won`t trade Pietrangelo for a fair value package, especially not around a winger. Maybe an equally outstanding center in a one for one would get them thinking, but whether they`d pull the trigger on it is still about 50/50. So mentioning him is fair game, sure , but other posters telling you it is not happening EVER kinda is too.

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01-23-2013, 11:10 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
This thread was not created by a Blues fan asking for these pieces to the Blues. It was created by an Edmonton fan. Don't create brutal proposals involving other teams because of something one of your fellow fans created



That's wonderful, glad you like Hall that much. Its still awful for the Blues. Oh, I see, you're running around creating proposals ignoring other teams needs simply based on how you value certain Edmonton players? This is a public forum, if you create proposals on here, expect opinions from the other teams perspective. The point of threads like these is to hear other people's opinions and perspective. If you don't want responses to your horrible proposals, either don't post them and keep them in your head, or go post them on the Oilers board.



And no, from your original post, it certainly looks like that is what you were proposing.



Edit: and I said the Blues would not trade Pietrangelo for that alone...you disagreed. You then respond talking about how much Hall means to the Oilers. How does that have anything to do with Pietrangelo's value? Or did you just decide to switch off that topic after it got uncomfortable for you?
Alright. You got me.

Alex Pietrangelo is more valuable than Taylor Hall, Sam Gagner and a lottery pick.

What was I thinking?

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:12 PM
  #95
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Old
01-23-2013, 11:13 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
So your idea of Pietrangelo's trade value is a former 1st overall, a 23 year old second line centre AND a potential lottery pick yet you say I have no concept of player value?

Think before you type.
Err... I'd probably take Pietrangelo over the listed package. I doubt that the Oilers will be getting yet another top 5 pick. Hall hasn't had a whole lot of success (limited by injuries), Gagner is good but nothing special and a first. All for Pietrangelo who looks to be well on his way to at least a Norris or two in the future? He's already one of the better d-men in the league.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:15 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Honestly, I am with you on discussing everything being fair game and also on Hall+1st holding a hell of a lot of value, but to be fair to Avs44, it really doesn`t take a genius to see that the Blues won`t trade Pietrangelo for a fair value package, especially not around a winger. Maybe an equally outstanding center in a one for one would get them thinking, but whether they`d pull the trigger on it is still about 50/50. So mentioning him is fair game, sure , but other posters telling you it is not happening EVER kinda is too.
Yah thats fine.. Dont blame Avs44... Like i said earlier... The OP asked for this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Alright. You got me.

Alex Pietrangelo is more valuable than Taylor Hall, Sam Gagner and a lottery pick.

What was I thinking?
meh.. to STL he very well could be... EDM would overvalue Eberle as well.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:17 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belair View Post
Alright. You got me.

Alex Pietrangelo is more valuable than Taylor Hall, Sam Gagner and a lottery pick.

What was I thinking?
Thank you for your intelligent response. And no, that is not what I said. I said Pietrangelo is more valuable to the Blues taking the rest of their team and team needs into account. Value to team =/= value on open market. Nice work twisting what I said btw.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:20 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wally31 View Post
What about:

Subban, Galchenyuk

for

Hall, Gagner, 2013 1st

_____________

Hall for Subban (MTL wins that part... not by much)

Gagner + 2013 1st for Galchenyuk (EDM wins that part...not by much)
Galchenyuk isn't going anywhere and Subban is worth Hall and i would not trade Subban for Hall straight up. Not because of value juste because of need we need more subban than Hall. We need both actually but not at the expense of Subban.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:31 PM
  #100
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Hall not as likely to be moved

to satisfy op premise about 2c gain, presumably over value of Hall. as inducement to do a deal....

Hall [or RNH] + J Schultz + 2 of Marincin/Klefborn/Gernat
for
Brad Richards + Girardi + Stepan + Eminger + Biron

analysis
Hall/RNH a better F for a great C in Richards
Girardi better than J. Schultz, especially on defense, but JS potential acknowledged
Stepan = 2C >> than highly rated Ds
Eminger for balance, provides Oilers w. a D for now

Even if RNH (not Hall), w 2 centers coming back, more depth at pivot for EDM
Girardi is huge improvement to D. Not what JS offers on offense, but Oilers have enough firepower.
Biron gives enough G in shortened season to make a difference this year
Oilers give up two prospect Ds, but still have at least 2 good D prospects not far away.

Rangers upgrade one F,
temporary step backwards on D, except that JSchultz helps on PP,
survive loss of Stepan by promoting JT Miller, who is faster, and a better fit with Hagelin, Kreider, Callahan...
would have to juggle in pivot if that is Hall, not RNH, but ya gotta do the upgrade, and this package helps with creating cap space

Would consider Cam Talbot as immediate backup G.

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