HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread - 5.0 - The "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-23-2013, 10:43 PM
  #751
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And some of us are old enough to have seen the Habs win multiple Cups.
I'm one of them, which is why I keep repeating how Sam Pollock let Ken Dryden sit for an entire season and paid for it.

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:43 PM
  #752
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Who could these people be ?

Pick 6 out of those ? The last 6 ?

Doughty : 8 years 7M/per
Karlsson : 7 years 6.5M/per
Myers : 7 years 5.5M/per
Johnson : 7 years 4.3M/per
M-E Vlasic : 5 years 4.25M/per
J. Carlson : 6 years 4M/per
Hedman : 5 years 4M/per
Fowler : 5 years 4M/per

To me Subban, clearly fits in right around Myers.
I see him right around Vlasic. but I'd expect 5M/yr to be a fair compromise if it goes long-term.

HankyZetts is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:44 PM
  #753
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WG View Post
I have watched this team piss away countless assets over the past 15-odd years. Attitude? Partying? Can't define a role? Easier to trade for pennies on the dollar as opposed to actually sorting it out, right? I am afraid we're going to die on that same hill, and we'll trade the most dynamic defenseman we've had in a long time for Dave Bolland and a 2nd rounder to support some stupid principle that doesn't actually help the team in the long run anyway.
You said it so elegantly. This is how the Montreal Canadiens always operated.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:44 PM
  #754
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,245
vCash: 500
2013 : the year P.K. Subban became bigger than the Habs.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:45 PM
  #755
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 13,841
vCash: 500
Ex players, fans, media, management, his own freackin agent now... Subban better wake up before he digs his hole even deeper. He's just passing off as one super arogant greedy SOB. Absolutely no one is on his side and nobody wants Bergeving to give up on his negocations. Nino and Reinhart for Subban is something is something I would seriously start considering...

Maxpac is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:48 PM
  #756
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
I see him right around Vlasic. but I'd expect 5M/yr to be a fair compromise if it goes long-term.
I beleive what PK said in the interview. If the offer is around 5M per year for multiple years, I think a deal has been in place already. MB's offer must be way below 5M. Again, I have no info to support this, I trusted what PK has said and there is no reason to doubt what he said.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:48 PM
  #757
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
That is where you have been missing my point all along.

I do not know the money and my assessment of PK is not about the total contract size he is holding out for.

He is selfish for putting himself in this position where his TEAM is playing hockey and he is not........which is not helping his TEAM.
But that doesn't make any sense.
He's not playing because they're not offering enough cash. You can't dismiss the money, it's the whole point of this ''lockout''.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Is that really what you two will pick out of what I posted? Is that really what you think my argument was when the rest of the post literally was my argument?

The truth is he didn't do "great" relative to the other #1's in the league, he did great relative to what you'd expect a 2nd year player thrust into that position would do.
Maybe you should make a list of the other 30 #1 in this league. You'll find that you're assessment is off.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:49 PM
  #758
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,116
vCash: 500
There was 9 years between drafting Markov and drafting Subban. Says maybe another one is headed our way about 2016? Add 5 years for development, it's 2021.

Anyone want to wave goodbye to PK then wait to 2021 for his replacement?

It's binary - either lose Subban or break a team management policy.


You know, if you shake a tree in Montreal 3 Canadians hockey executives will fall from the branches. You would think with a think tank that big someone would be advising a little more strongly.

Agnostic is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #759
onice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,429
vCash: 500
Does anyone remember the term & money that Patches signed for?

The reason i ask is because almost everyone keeps saying that a #1 d-man is worth more than a #1 winger.

Patches & Subban were drafted in the same year. Shouldn't the Habs offer P.K. at least as much as Patches?

onice is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #760
haburger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Sadly, a lot of our fans here do not think the same way. In their opinion, PK is not a Number 1 D and can be easily replaced.
ya and none them can name a suitable replacement.ellis tinordi and beaulieu arent in the same category.so if we trade pk who's gonna replace him?

haburger is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:52 PM
  #761
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
There was 9 years between drafting Markov and drafting Subban. Says maybe another one is headed our way about 2016? Add 5 years for development, it's 2021.

Anyone want to wave goodbye to PK then wait to 2021 for his replacement?
I think some are banking on Beaulieu to replace him, but despite being a higher draft pick, Beaulieu isn't developing as fast as Subban.

No Team Needed is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:52 PM
  #762
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
2013 : the year P.K. Subban became bigger than the Habs.
Wrong. 2013 is the year Marc Bergevin starts to destroy my beloved Habs. He will follow the footsteps of countless incompetent GMs such as Houles, Gainey, etc.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:54 PM
  #763
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Subban did everyone of those things for 1 1/2 years. Everyone gets massively better offensively and defensively when he is on the ice. Goals for goes up, goals against go down and he's doing it in the hardest assignments the team has to offer.
Once again, by default. I'm talking about a top offense and top defense. PK does not make everyone around him better. Let me see him get guys like Souray, Streit and Komisarek huge deals on the open market, then we can talk about #1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The next person that whines about him doing it on a 15th place team should slap themselves. Subban had a better goal differential 5 on 5 than the Norris trophy winner. 15th had nothing to do with the 1st pairing. It was pairings 2 and 3 that ruined it.
Karlsson is obviously not going to be known for his 5-on-5 ratios. He's an elite offensive, powerplay defenceman. There is no comparison there.

You should realize that PK Subban is not ready to be the #1 defenceman on a top team, because that is the truth.

HankyZetts is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:54 PM
  #764
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't think Subban has crazy demands after reading the Stubbs article.

Here's a quote from the article :


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Dave+...#ixzz2IrWxW3Gb

Who could these people be ?

Pick 6 out of those ? The last 6 ?

Doughty : 8 years 7M/per
Karlsson : 7 years 6.5M/per
Myers : 7 years 5.5M/per
Johnson : 7 years 4.3M/per
M-E Vlasic : 5 years 4.25M/per
J. Carlson : 6 years 4M/per
Hedman : 5 years 4M/per
Fowler : 5 years 4M/per

To me Subban, clearly fits in right around Myers.
The Myers contract would be fair. If I were PK though I'd rather do 2 yrs now at 4.5 and then back up the truck to the vault afterwards. But if PK is set on a 5-7 year deal, 5.5 isn't too bad for a guy with his talent. And in 5 years it would probably look like a steal.

Whatever man... let's just hope this gets done.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:56 PM
  #765
haburger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 500
thats what happens when u put ones ability to speak french before job ability.what did we have like 4 gm 's to choose from?this is the result.same movie over and over and over..................

haburger is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:58 PM
  #766
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Hahahahaha! Best one yet! Have you ever watched him play? Did you just look at his frame and assume he was physical? Go ask even Sabres fan what they think about Myers physical play, they certainly won't tell you how great it is.
You wouldnt want Tyler Myers on the Habs?

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 10:59 PM
  #767
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But that doesn't make any sense.
He's not playing because they're not offering enough cash. You can't dismiss the money, it's the whole point of this ''lockout''.


Maybe you should make a list of the other 30 #1 in this league. You'll find that you're assessment is off.
No, you cannot dismiss the money in its entirety.

I never assumed the money.

SouthernHab is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:01 PM
  #768
paddy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WG View Post
Yoga classes seem to be working, quite the contortions there.

My point regarded Gorges and I stand by it. One, it is none of his business and not his place to inform any player what contract ot take. And two, if true what he said, the idea that since a hard-working, but stay at home defenseman coming off a shedded knee took a bridge deal means that PK should do the same is nonsense. I sincerely hope that was not Josh Gorges' intent since seems out of character given his tenure here and I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. I will repeat that if true then the thought process is dumb, especially in the shadow of a protracted labor dispute where players held out to get what they felt was the better deal in the long run.

As to the rest of your diatribe, meh. I don't care what Martin thinks. I care even less what the TMZ crowd at Antichambre think. And I'm still waiting for the fire to erupt from all this smoke. Maybe some of the towels on the floor will come into contact with some empty paint cans?

I have watched this team piss away countless assets over the past 15-odd years. Attitude? Partying? Can't define a role? Easier to trade for pennies on the dollar as opposed to actually sorting it out, right? I am afraid we're going to die on that same hill, and we'll trade the most dynamic defenseman we've had in a long time for Dave Bolland and a 2nd rounder to support some stupid principle that doesn't actually help the team in the long run anyway.
See, everything is black or white. Somebody says that maybe, just maybe, PK has still a lot of growing up to do and lots more to prove, and also become a better person and teammate, and suddenly it becomes an affirmation that PK is not a good promising defenseman and we should trade him for a bad return.

I don't mind debating opinions, but I have a problem with the "he can do no wrong" crowd that put him on a pedestal. Usually, these are the same ones that boo ex-players and hate them once they're traded.

So sure, just dismiss every informed opinions out there and keep on believing that everyone who isn't convinced that PK is a Norris candidate and maybe future hall-of-famer is an idiot (not directing this at you solely, nor talking about my opinion),

paddy is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:02 PM
  #769
Kjell Dahlin
Registered User
 
Kjell Dahlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Québec, Québec
Posts: 1,998
vCash: 500
Some people here are acting as if the Canadiens should write Subban a freakin’ blank check!

Did they remove the notion of a RFA player without arbitrary rights (arbitration) from the new CBA? No they did not and that’s why I wish Meehan/Subban (though it’s Subban who decides to stay home) are not looking for a lot more (and he does deserve more) money per year than what Price received in the same situation.

Btw... if Subban inks a one year deal worth 3M$, it would imply that Bergevin was low balling him. If it’s a one year deal worth 5M$, it would imply that Subban was asking for the moon. Anything in between and we will know that it was only a matter of length.


PS at this point, I think a one year deal could be the only solution. Sadly.

Kjell Dahlin is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:02 PM
  #770
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
Wrong. 2013 is the year Marc Bergevin starts to destroy my beloved Habs. He will follow the footsteps of countless incompetent GMs such as Houles, Gainey, etc.

all that cause he isnt giving the new golden boy, the savior, the future multiple norris winner what he wants ?

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:03 PM
  #771
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
That is where you have been missing my point all along.

I do not know the money and my assessment of PK is not about the total contract size he is holding out for.

He is selfish for putting himself in this position where his TEAM is playing hockey and he is not........which is not helping his TEAM.
He's not being selfish, this is nonsense. This is a contract negotiation and unfortunately they haven't come to terms. Would it be selfish if the team offered him 2 bucks a game? No right? Why... because they aren't paying him what he's worth.

What he's worth is up for debate but that's where the negotiations come in. Saying he's selfish when you admittedly "do not know the money" is speaking from a position of ignorance.

Maybe PK actually IS asking for too much cash but it could easily be the other way around. You can't blame the guy for holding out for what he thinks he's worth. This is part of the game.

It baffles me that people are taking strong opinions against MB or PK. Nobody knows what the hell is going on here. It's fine to offer up what we think he's worth but to harshly criticize these guys when we don't know what's going on doesn't make any sense to me.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:04 PM
  #772
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No.

I am a fan of the Montreal Canadiens.

Last time I checked, there was not a team called the PK Subbans.

Players come and go. The CH has been there before the present players and will be there long after they are gone.

I am not a fanboy.
I agree. Because players have come and gone, **** any player who is trying to be fairly compensated for his level of play. I'm a habs fan, damnit.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:05 PM
  #773
JackZap
Registered User
 
JackZap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,080
vCash: 500
PK starting to remind me of Terrell Owens, great talent but seems to rub ppl the wrong way.

JackZap is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:06 PM
  #774
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I agree. Because players have come and gone, **** any player who is trying to be fairly compensated for his level of play. I'm a habs fan, damnit.
that you do not know.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-23-2013, 11:06 PM
  #775
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,650
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
2013 : the year P.K. Subban became bigger than the Habs.
2013: The year Marc Beregevin became bigger than the Habs.

See, I can make ridiculous statements too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
PK starting to remind me of Terrell Owens, great talent but seems to rub ppl the wrong way.
TO openly criticized his teammates to the media, blamed losses on his teammates not giving him the ball enough, and celebrated touchdowns with over the top celebrations without involving teammates.

Please tell me what Subban has done that remotely approaches this.


Last edited by Et le But: 01-23-2013 at 11:12 PM.
Et le But is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.