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P.K. Subban Thread - 5.0 - The "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" Edition

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:56 PM
  #826
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
The defensemen who were not on the first pair sucked. 2nd pair was about -20, 3rd also bad. This shouldn't be a difficult concept. Yet is for some reason. The rocket Richard winner can play for the lottery and yet people marvel that a 15 the squad can have a good 1st pair. Its too much work for you people to look things up or try to figure out what actually happened so you just argue from incredulity.

And I just imagined Gill playing the heaviest minutes and holding his own against the Bruins with some kid beside him. That obviously never happened.
simple math, there's no voting, no evaluation or anything, you score the most goals you get the trophy...


look what up ? oh yeah, the advanced stats that will (for example) tell me that the player who I think spent the game with the puck on his stick has a good possession time ? really ? or maybe I didnt see during a game that players such as Gill couldnt do any better that send the puck along the board and that when paired with someone better the other guy had to do the transition ?

thank god there's stats to tell me what I saw really happened



Good, we both agree Gill is a top pairing D

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:57 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
So would you say that:

a.) Subban is putting himself ahead of the team?

b.) Subban is acting as a rational human being, and is not really at any fault?
that's the only choices ? you lack imagination...

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01-23-2013, 11:58 PM
  #828
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This isn't like the lock-out where the man in the suit is guaranteed to win. To the contrary, I think PK will win this one and if Bergevin decides to trade him, the tables will turn and he will be the loser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post

“It’s come down to this — I want to be paid what I’m worth.” PK Subban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post

What's wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with that. It's only wrong among the masses that stand by old school principles and view players as simple minded people who shouldn't be able to process nor voice opinions and demands that are contrary to the norm.

I would do the exact same thing as PK if I was in his shoes and I give him props for having the smarts to stand his ground.

Why should he kiss millions in dollars and guaranteed security goodbye if he knows that other teams will provide him with it?

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01-24-2013, 12:00 AM
  #829
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I think the biggest thing that is hurting/hurts Subban is the fact he wasn't a high first round pick. If he was a top 10 pick I think he'd get his deal. Not fair at all IMO.

And truth is their is noone in the system with Subbans upside. Beauieu is maybe, MAYBE, a 2nd pairing 1st PP guy. Subban is a first pairing, first PP, second PK guy already. And he brings a physical element.

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01-24-2013, 12:02 AM
  #830
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Per Bob McKenzie on The Quiz, TSN :

Quote:
Subban's case will probably end up in transaction

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01-24-2013, 12:06 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's the only choices ? you lack imagination...
Well, either he's being reasonable or not? Are you saying he's being sorta reasonble? Sorta unreasonable?

...You're just not going to say anything at all?

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01-24-2013, 12:07 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Well, either he's being reasonable or not? Are you saying he's being sorta reasonble? Sorta unreasonable?

...You're just not going to say anything at all?
gimme the numbers and I'll tell you what I think.

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01-24-2013, 12:10 AM
  #833
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Might tell you that the rest of our defense sucked, or that the other guys that played with desharnais sucked, or that it wasn't a big enough sample size. I don't know, but I don't care. I don't have to look at those numbers to re-affirm what I see on the ice.

Markov made each and everyone of those guys hit a level they never had before or after.

My point was that whatever Sabrestat he was using to say "PK beat Karlsson" was irrelevant. Karlsson is not going to be judged on his defensive efficiency when he is out scoring elite forwards, 5-on-5 and PP.

What does that tell you about whatever means it is that you are using to grade a player?

I never said it was their fault. They just wouldn't be the top pairing on a contending team, unless the "second pairing" had Markov on it.
You're shifting goalposts.

You asked how he can be a 1 if his team didn't do well. That's the question answered here. The Habs got upper half results from their top duo. The problems were when they weren't on the ice. Better than the results of many well regarded units.

Now they were lucky to do it, they had good goaltending support and they probably got lucky with the forwards doing better than they normally would. But you weren't asking what they'll do in the future. You were asking why the team failed with them. The results clearly show that the failure had nothing to do with them.

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01-24-2013, 12:14 AM
  #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
2013 : the year P.K. Subban became bigger than the Habs.
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gimme the numbers and I'll tell you what I think.
Mmmm, I don't think you're telling the whole story. But fair enough.

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01-24-2013, 12:15 AM
  #835
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Mmmm, I don't think you're telling the whole story. But fair enough.
no numbers ?

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I think the biggest thing that is hurting/hurts Subban is the fact he wasn't a high first round pick. If he was a top 10 pick I think he'd get his deal. Not fair at all IMO.

And truth is their is noone in the system with Subbans upside. Beauieu is maybe, MAYBE, a 2nd pairing 1st PP guy. Subban is a first pairing, first PP, second PK guy already. And he brings a physical element.
Subban is actually a better penalty killer than powerplay player. The PK actually stands for penalty kill now. He's one of the best in the league.

Clearly not worth Cam Fowler money to some though.

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01-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #837
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After reading the Stubbs article, seems like PK is really a huge fan of PK. Don't really remember a player hyping himself up like that to the media before... is Jamie Benn doing the same in Dallas right now? (honest question, I do not know...)

He's for sure going to rub people the wrong way... sure he says he prefers to play out the rest of his career as a Hab, but he also does not really seem to mind playing for another team since it could just be chalked up as "the business of hockey". TBH, sorta leaves a sour taste in my mouth while reading that as a die hard Habs fan.

Thoughts?

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:19 AM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
2013 : the year P.K. Subban became bigger than the Habs.
What do you mean by this post?

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:19 AM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
After reading the Stubbs article, seems like PK is really a huge fan of PK. Don't really remember a player hyping himself up like that to the media before... is Jamie Benn doing the same in Dallas right now? (honest question, I do not know...)

He's for sure going to rub people the wrong way... sure he says he prefers to play out the rest of his career as a Hab, but he also does not really seem to mind playing for another team since it could just be chalked up as "the business of hockey". TBH, sorta leaves a sour taste in my mouth while reading that as a die hard Habs fan.

Thoughts?
He's a supremely confident guy.

Is that a bad thing in an athlete?

He's obviously not too big of a jerk since pretty much the entire Canadian entertainment industry has fallen completely in love with him...

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01-24-2013, 12:22 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Subban is actually a better penalty killer than powerplay player. The PK actually stands for penalty kill now. He's one of the best in the league.

Clearly not worth Cam Fowler money to some though.
He needs to find his role on the PP, but he has a role. Dude can blast it and create offense in the o-zone.

Let's not forget what could have been the biggest goal in recent Habs history if not for a little different luck in OT:


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01-24-2013, 12:22 AM
  #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
After reading the Stubbs article, seems like PK is really a huge fan of PK. Don't really remember a player hyping himself up like that to the media before... is Jamie Benn doing the same in Dallas right now? (honest question, I do not know...)

He's for sure going to rub people the wrong way... sure he says he prefers to play out the rest of his career as a Hab, but he also does not really seem to mind playing for another team since it could just be chalked up as "the business of hockey". TBH, sorta leaves a sour taste in my mouth while reading that as a die hard Habs fan.

Thoughts?
he will be on the ice with Habs on or before Jan 29th....his first game will be a home game...fans will go nutts.

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:23 AM
  #842
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If he is traded I have more confidence that MB will actually shop him around not just talk to one or two teams a la Gauthier. All I'm saying is that we better get a 1st rounder and/or a star back because this is akin to trading Chelios back in the day.

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01-24-2013, 12:23 AM
  #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
After reading the Stubbs article, seems like PK is really a huge fan of PK. Don't really remember a player hyping himself up like that to the media before... is Jamie Benn doing the same in Dallas right now? (honest question, I do not know...)

He's for sure going to rub people the wrong way... sure he says he prefers to play out the rest of his career as a Hab, but he also does not really seem to mind playing for another team since it could just be chalked up as "the business of hockey". TBH, sorta leaves a sour taste in my mouth while reading that as a die hard Habs fan.

Thoughts?
Nothing wrong with what he is saying. If my team is not paying me fairly but another team is willing to do so then the choice is easy. Souray used to say he want to resign with the Habs but he simply walked. Hockey players always said the popular thing but they always did thing for their own interest. At least PK is honest over here. Put yourself into his shoes and you will do the same thing.

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01-24-2013, 12:24 AM
  #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
After reading the Stubbs article, seems like PK is really a huge fan of PK. Don't really remember a player hyping himself up like that to the media before... is Jamie Benn doing the same in Dallas right now? (honest question, I do not know...)

He's for sure going to rub people the wrong way... sure he says he prefers to play out the rest of his career as a Hab, but he also does not really seem to mind playing for another team since it could just be chalked up as "the business of hockey". TBH, sorta leaves a sour taste in my mouth while reading that as a die hard Habs fan.

Thoughts?
It's simple: Most players are humble morons and hockey culture states that being a humble moron embodies the perfect team player and winner.

PK has a brain and voices an opinion and and this goes against what we define as perceived hockey ideals.

I see PK as the movement of change and hopefully we will be able to look back at this in 20 years from now and see PK as the first of his kind.

All I can say is don't fall into the haters trap.

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:26 AM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
What do you mean by this post?
He means PK is selfish player. In his opinion, PK should have signed a bridge contract for 2/3 years for roughly 3M per year for the sake of the team.

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01-24-2013, 12:26 AM
  #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
He's a supremely confident guy.

Is that a bad thing in an athlete?

He's obviously not too big of a jerk since pretty much the entire Canadian entertainment industry has fallen completely in love with him...
Confidence is good to have as an athlete, obviously.

But, you know what they say about too much of a good thing (or of anything for that matter).

If I'm a Habs player and I'm reading this about PK hyping himself up while hes not on the ice helping my team win, I'm not impressed one bit.

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:27 AM
  #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardking89 View Post
If he is traded I have more confidence that MB will actually shop him around not just talk to one or two teams a la Gauthier. All I'm saying is that we better get a 1st rounder and/or a star back because this is akin to trading Chelios back in the day.
Chelios trade has more in common with the Ribeiro trade.

This will probably be more like the Roy trade or the Turgeon trade. He knows he can't replace Subban so he'll try to get pieces for him that hopefully add up to more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
If I'm a Habs player and I'm reading this about PK hyping himself up while hes not on the ice helping my team win, I'm not impressed one bit.
If I'm Alex Galchenyuk, I'm expecting Marc Bergevin to low ball me on my first RFA negoation and I'm signing the first offer sheet that comes my way.

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:30 AM
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
He means PK is selfish player. In his opinion, PK should have signed a bridge contract for 2/3 years for roughly 3M per year for the sake of the team.
wrong.

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Old
01-24-2013, 12:30 AM
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carboneer View Post
Confidence is good to have as an athlete, obviously.

But, you know what they say about too much of a good thing (or of anything for that matter).

If I'm a Habs player and I'm reading this about PK hyping himself up while hes not on the ice helping my team win, I'm not impressed one bit.
You can say "hyping himself up" but what does that mean? What specifically did he say that bothered you?

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01-24-2013, 12:31 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
wrong.
So what do you mean by that post? I'm curious.

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