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The Kreider Thread (1/22: Kreider fine, skating at practice)

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:26 PM
  #276
JeffMangum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
No, it's called different people disagreeing with each other.

The issue here isn't bipolarity, but rather that some view this forum as having 2 people: themselves and "The Other". When "The Other" writes something, people don't pay attention to who is writing it, it's just "The Other" and then they are confused why "The Other" sometimes has one opinion and other times has another.

This is particularly so because one side or another will be more vocal, depending on whether the facts support them. If Kreider plays poor, those who say his AHL performance matters will be more vocal. If he plays well, those who say he's more fit for the NHL than lower levels are more vocal. But these are different people.

To view everyone else other than yourself as one person is not only ignorant, but very arrogant.
It's not the fact that certain people disagree with each other.

It's the fact that certain people swing with the team. They overreact regardless of whether or not the team is winning or losing. Rangers fans tend to do this a lot. I'm guilty of it myself.

Bad play leads to a lot of knee-jerk reactions. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Look at the difference in the board when the team is winning and playing well vs when the team is losing and not looking good on the ice. The difference is obvious and scary.

We're getting off topic here. Seems to be happening a lot lately...

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01-23-2013, 01:25 AM
  #277
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my magical giraffe tells me Kreider will do well in the upcoming game after that hit on Sunday night much like how Duchene was cross checked in the face by Feds and found his scoring touch again. On second thought, maybe I'm being serious. Younger players often need a jolt to get going and nothing is more alerting than a disorienting hit.

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01-23-2013, 03:17 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
my magical giraffe tells me Kreider will do well in the upcoming game after that hit on Sunday night much like how Duchene was cross checked in the face by Feds and found his scoring touch again. On second thought, maybe I'm being serious. Younger players often need a jolt to get going and nothing is more alerting than a disorienting hit.
or he'll panic and hold back everything to avoid getting hurt. there's no reason to assume either way

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01-23-2013, 04:49 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
or he'll panic and hold back everything to avoid getting hurt. there's no reason to assume either way
Or he'll keep his head up and push extra hard to bounce back from his poor performances after a wake up call

Or he'll do what you said.

Or he'll do what I said.

.....

We'll see Mooskating.... We will see.

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01-23-2013, 06:42 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
I guess you missed the part about the cap room there tough guy .
http://capgeek.com/stars

You were saying? To be thinking they wouldn't raise money to sign this guy and to be thinking they're going to trade him for Kreider... hilarious.

Hint: If you're going to be a wise a**, at least get your facts straight.

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01-23-2013, 08:46 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
Or he'll keep his head up and push extra hard to bounce back from his poor performances after a wake up call

Or he'll do what you said.

Or he'll do what I said.

.....

We'll see Mooskating.... We will see.
we shall... hoping that your assumption trumps mine!

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01-23-2013, 03:29 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by tomcatNYR View Post


He actually made a very nice move just before the hit, but then Oprik nailed him.
Yup, pretty clear evidence he's still adjusting to the NHL. Watching Nash should help him.

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01-23-2013, 03:50 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
I don't see as to why Kreider is getting promoted despite playing poorly. Pyatt should be the one moved up.
Because the Rangers have more to gain by Kreider finding his game than they do with Pyatt. If line combinations were determined entirely by who has earned it and who hasn't, Gaborik would be seeing 4th line minutes and Jeff Halpern could very well be our 2nd line center.

I like Pyatt, but he is what he is at this point.

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01-23-2013, 04:02 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Because the Rangers have more to gain by Kreider finding his game than they do with Pyatt. If line combinations were determined entirely by who has earned it and who hasn't, Gaborik would be seeing 4th line minutes and Jeff Halpern could very well be our 2nd line center.

I like Pyatt, but he is what he is at this point.
Yes, it comes down to roles. And its an aspect of the game that is often ignored by a lot of fans, despite it being so critical in determining the value of a player.

Taylor Pyatt is playing well in his role as a 3rd line checking winger who can pot a goal here and there. Why move him up? Why place added pressure on him that he likely cant consistently deliver?

This is why the Kreider thing is so tricky. Tortorella wants him to become a complete player, but at what price? I think he winds up on the top line eventually, but that has more to do with Hagelin being a more complete player right now - I think he can move down to that checking role more seamlessly than Kreider.

If Kreider moves up and still doesnt produce, then we've got real problems.

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01-23-2013, 04:11 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yes, it comes down to roles. And its an aspect of the game that is often ignored by a lot of fans, despite it being so critical in determining the value of a player.

Taylor Pyatt is playing well in his role as a 3rd line checking winger who can pot a goal here and there. Why move him up? Why place added pressure on him that he likely cant consistently deliver?

This is why the Kreider thing is so tricky. Tortorella wants him to become a complete player, but at what price? I think he winds up on the top line eventually, but that has more to do with Hagelin being a more complete player right now - I think he can move down to that checking role more seamlessly than Kreider.

If Kreider moves up and still doesnt produce, then we've got real problems.
I agree that Hagelin fits that role better. One of those guys has to find their offensive game and do it soon. Otherwise I think it would behoove the organization to send Kreider down and try and acquire a viable 2nd line scorer -- or give Hrivik a look if he can recover from his concussion.

I'm really high on the kid, but our window for a real run at the cup is pretty slim. If he can't bring offense to the table, we need to let him progress at his own pace and find someone who can fill the gap.

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01-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #286
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Carl Hagelin had a grand total of zero goals and just three assists in 17 playoff games. Zero points in two games to start this season. All while getting top six minutes. If that's not worth a demotion, I don't know what is.

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01-24-2013, 05:16 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Rookie Chris Kreider, in fact, fell out of the rotation completely after playing poorly and took just two shifts in the final two periods of the game. Tortorella said after the game he would not rule out sending Kreider back to the AHL if he needs more time to develop, because “I’ve seen players ruined (who were) put in a situation and they just struggled and they don’t succeed . . . and I do not want to see that happen to him.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...#ixzz2ItHWcrwn

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:20 AM
  #288
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Its starting already in the post-game thread. "Kreider only got 7 minutes! How is he supposed to be succeed??! Kreider isnt playing with offensively talented players and he should be!!"

Its complete BS. Kreider was horrendous last night - just brutal. He looked like he had **** in his hockey pants in those 7 minutes. And people wanted him to play MORE?

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01-24-2013, 08:29 AM
  #289
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Kreider hasn't even proven himself at the the AHL level yet. Send him down because he doesn't look anywhere near NHL ready. His playoff performance last year was just like catching lightning in a bottle; he over performed. Going to the AHL for a year would not be a regression.

There is all together far too much discussion about him - not getting any minutes, moved down the lineup, benched after taking a penalty, hit very hard with his head down ... send him to the appropriate level before the pressure really gets to him.

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01-24-2013, 08:34 AM
  #290
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+1 he's a great kid with a great physical ability but hasn't really played near enough high level hockey to compete at this level . He needs to go down start scoring and learning the pro game @ AHL LEVEL . remember Callahan rode the CT shutttle and he's captain now

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01-24-2013, 08:38 AM
  #291
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The issue is I am not sold on the Whale being the best place for him either. Never thought I'd say this but Sathers needs a PAP-esque trade to get some playmaking in Hartford.

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01-24-2013, 08:51 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
The issue is I am not sold on the Whale being the best place for him either. Never thought I'd say this but Sathers needs a PAP-esque trade to get some playmaking in Hartford.
Well, Ferriero should help out with that a little bit. Though I expect him to see some time with the big club as well.

It's certainly not a great situation down there though.

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01-24-2013, 08:56 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Well, Ferriero should help out with that a little bit. Though I expect him to see some time with the big club as well.

It's certainly not a great situation down there though.
Should've kept Gomez and sent him to Hartford. Could've been a Wade Redden for the forwards.

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01-24-2013, 09:10 AM
  #294
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As we speak about how the Whale need an influx of skill they trade away on of their only skilled playmakers. Well done Sather.

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01-24-2013, 09:18 AM
  #295
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As we speak about how the Whale need an influx of skill they trade away on of their only skilled playmakers. Well done Sather.
For a better player who has more skill.

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01-24-2013, 09:21 AM
  #296
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For a better player who has more skill.
You think Ferriero has more skill than Kolarik? I don't. Maybe he has more grit.

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01-24-2013, 09:29 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by wr50l View Post
Kreider hasn't even proven himself at the the AHL level yet. Send him down because he doesn't look anywhere near NHL ready. His playoff performance last year was just like catching lightning in a bottle; he over performed. Going to the AHL for a year would not be a regression.

There is all together far too much discussion about him - not getting any minutes, moved down the lineup, benched after taking a penalty, hit very hard with his head down ... send him to the appropriate level before the pressure really gets to him.
Yea, but didnt you know he proved himself in the playoffs last season by scoring 5 goals in 18 games and making questionable decisions in the defensive/neutral zones??

But seriously, the AHL is probably the best thing for him right now. People can come up with excuses about how he needs to play with better linemates in the NHL, or how the Wolfpack roster is too ****** for him, but thats just noise. Its up to Kreider to play better, period. Last night was particularly brutal - it looked like he had Orpik's hit on one side of his mind, and Tortorella screaming at him about a mistake in the other. I dont think hes going to get his confidence back in the NHL right now.

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01-24-2013, 09:33 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
You think Ferriero has more skill than Kolarik? I don't. Maybe he has more grit.
They're about even in terms of skill. Ferriero simply plays more of a complete game than Kolarik does.

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01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
  #299
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Def needs to do a CALLY . Take his being sent to the AHL as a positive and go down and work his butt off and score . Overall organizationally he is being brought along to play a game which isn't necessarily his . I'm not sure CK is a puck hound , cycle , crash and bang guy. His best assets are his speed and his shot . It appears to me he has no feel for how to play and is playing without any instinct at all .
Under Tortorella's umbrella he may never develop into the player he can be . He'd be much better fit in a puck possession system than a dump and chase defense first system .

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01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
  #300
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Def needs to do a CALLY . Take his being sent to the AHL as a positive and go down and work his butt off and score . Overall organizationally he is being brought along to play a game which isn't necessarily his . I'm not sure CK is a puck hound , cycle , crash and bang guy. His best assets are his speed and his shot . It appears to me he has no feel for how to play and is playing without any instinct at all .
Under Tortorella's umbrella he may never develop into the player he can be . He'd be much better fit in a puck possession system than a dump and chase defense first system .
Well, guess what, not many players get a pass from not being those things on this team.

Primarily because those things aren't a question of skill, they are a question of effort and commitment.

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