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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:29 AM
  #26
Cupmonger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Don't be so dramatic. It's a negotiation.
For real...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bobby Mac said Habs are offering PK 2.75M. He also said they are about 2-3M apart.
That means PK, at the most, is asking between 4.75-5.75M.
However, Stubbs just said PK isn't asking for Doughty money, at all. Meaning, he's probably not asking for 5.75M.
So what gives?? How is PK the one vilified here?? Not going to blame the RDS guys for riding on the Bergevin side, they finally get access to the GM and coach, they love them for taking part in their shows and being so open to them, so very easy to predict they would back him up.

But fans?? I don't get it. I also don't understand how any fan would want PK to sign on a cheap long term deal. Really, doesn't make any sense. People should want this kid locked up on a long term deal at a decent price, which is what he's apparently asking for.
I don't remember hearing Bob say Bergie was offering 2.5-3 mil. I do remember him saying there might be a 3 mil difference in the contract value. But that seemed more of his opinion. I know that Bob is reliable. But as far as I know, nobody involved in the contract's signing has leaked info to anybody, and rightfully so.

I don't see why Bergie wouldn't sign PK for 5 mil, now that we no longer have Gomez against our cap. And that we'll more than likely see another amnesty buyout. Unless Bergie wants to save as much as possible in order to sign big ufas this offseason.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:29 AM
  #27
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
What worries me the most is that it seems like management doesn't seem to see much value in Subba, IMO on a 2 year deal he should be getting 4M to 4.5 per.

And if they are only offering 2.5, and they want to move him, doubt they even ask for much.

I really wish we knew the details to make judgement but from what Subban said, it seems like he is ok with a short term deal at fair price, which should be 4-4.5.

I can't believe a deal isn't done, I literally am just lost, its as likely to see a heading on TSN or Subban traded as it is for a Subban re-signs header.
fair value is nice... but how much $ is fair to Subban himself, 2 Mil, 4 Mil, 6 maybe ?

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01-24-2013, 09:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bobby Mac said Habs are offering PK 2.75M. He also said they are about 2-3M apart.
That means PK, at the most, is asking between 4.75-5.75M.
However, Stubbs just said PK isn't asking for Doughty money, at all. Meaning, he's probably not asking for 5.75M.
So what gives?? How is PK the one vilified here?? Not going to blame the RDS guys for riding on the Bergevin side, they finally get access to the GM and coach, they love them for taking part in their shows and being so open to them, so very easy to predict they would back him up.

But fans?? I don't get it. I also don't understand how any fan would want PK to sign on a cheap long term deal. Really, doesn't make any sense. People should want this kid locked up on a long term deal at a decent price, which is what he's apparently asking for.
PK's value is a lot closer to 5.75 than to 2.75. Obviously the number of years play a factor, but I would be happy at 4 years and 19 mil.

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01-24-2013, 09:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
PK will sign soon, easy there people.
yes, with which team?

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:30 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
That would be a great deal for both parties. PK goes back to do what he loves and gets 1.5 years to increase is value to the 6-7 per year range.
Let me ask you, do you think PK will be worth 6-7M per in 2 years??

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01-24-2013, 09:31 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Not sure how you get that it has "passed the point of no return". Pk hasn't asked for a trade or said he wouldn't play for MT.
How do you think he will be received in the room? You think they will be thrilled when he comes back? You think he's thrilled to come back?

Don't be so naive.

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01-24-2013, 09:32 AM
  #32
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http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...erite---subban

Est-ce qu’une transaction ou une offre hostile d’une autre formation de la Ligue nationale de hockey a traversé l’esprit de Subban?

«Tu dois y penser à un certain moment, a-t-il avoué. Si tout le monde est tanné de cette situation et que le tout laisse un goût amer dans la bouche de tout le monde…»


Subban says it publicly, then I think he does wish to be traded if he doesn't get the contract that he wants.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Well, I truly feel we are passed the point of no return.

PK will inevitably be traded. I am furious that it has come to this.

This contract dispute has pissed off his teammates. It has pissed off PK as well. We are done here. For whatever reason, Bergevin and his inexplicable obsession with low ball bridge contracts WILL cost us the most dynamic defenceman that we've had in a long, long time.

Mr. Bergevin, Mr. "supreme talent evaluator", does not seem to be a big fan of PK's talent. He had an opportunity to sign this kid long term, keep the guy in the organization for a long time and at a cap hit that in a few years will seem like nothing.

I'm telling you right now, PK will be traded. At BEST, he will stay here until he's UFA and bolt. He's been disrepected by the organization, and his teammates have soured on him for holding out.

It's a toxic situation. This is done.

Goodbye PK.

Hopefully goodbye Bergevin if he ****s this up anymore than he already has.
I agree, but would like to think bergevin knows that if he gives PK a large contract, based on what he might be and doesn't live up to the billing, Montreal will not be a "nice" place for him to play in. Maybe he's just trying to avoid a reall problem. Just my .02

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01-24-2013, 09:33 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
I'll argue that Price is MUCH MUCH more important to this team then PK and he didn't fuss. He signed and played out his transition contract and got rewarded for it in the end.
When Price signed his two year, he looked like what Steve Mason looks like right now. If he had another weak year, Montreal was likely to designate him as a back-up and find someone else to play starter.

Subban is coming off his best season yet. It's vastly different.

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01-24-2013, 09:33 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
How do you think he will be received in the room? You think they will be thrilled when he comes back? You think he's thrilled to come back?

Don't be so naive.
Are you ****in kidding me ? They are players also who make money for a living. They love PK and it has been said over and over by former players and players who play with him. So stop making up ****.

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01-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
It's not about wanting or not wanting this kid...

Price Pacioretty Gorges and on and on all followed Management business rule of a transition contract.....Why should PK not have to as well?I'll argue that Price is MUCH MUCH more important to this team then PK and he didn't fuss. He signed and played out his transition contract and got rewarded for it in the end.

I say if PK doesn;t want to sign a transition contract then trade him.
Montreal has the likes of Tinordi, Beaulieu and Ellis waiting in the wings and bringing in a guy ala Benn would suit thsi team just fine.

From al the suggested comments from players and news outlets it's not like Subban is apprecited in his own locker room either. This guy thinks he'sigger then the team.

While I'd love to keep PK, I would not keep him at any cost.

Signing him to a long term big money deal now would send the wrong message to the other young stars on this team and more then likely create some anomisty in the dressing room.

If PK doesn't want to be part of the Montreal Canadiesn then let's move on and get someone that does want to be part of a TEAM!

Maybe Edmonton would be interested!
This is something that I can't argue with and I don't think PK can either...the organization obviously has a standard of doing business following entry deals, and this goes even beyond Price/Pacioretty, they've always worked this way.

So I fully support Bergevin in this instance...where I differ though, is the amount of money they're offering him on this 2 year deal

2.75M, is a joke for Subban if you ask me...and maybe if they started out at a higher number, PK Subban would be more inclined to back off his stance.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #37
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Who does PK think he is, still a kid and he wants Kaberle money?

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #38
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Sit in a ****ing room and figure this **** out. Seriously.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz View Post
Chris Chelios now P.K Subban

It's as if history is trying to repeat itself. Both play a similar style, both have strong characters and there is no doubt in my mind that by the time Subban retires they will both be Norris trophy winners.

Draw the comparables for fun...its scary how many there are.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Chelios now P.K Subban, not even close, completetly different different players and different situations

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
How do you think he will be received in the room? You think they will be thrilled when he comes back? You think he's thrilled to come back?

Don't be so naive.
I think that's overstated...players don't get involved in other players financial affairs. I think they're all mature enough to understand that hockey is a business and there's no emotions or personal feelings in business

Hell, they shared a dressing room with Scott Gomez for 3 years while he made 7M and didn't show any professionalism or dedication to his craft.

I doubt they'll be peeved off at Subban for doing what's afforded to him by the CBA which they all united to conceive.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:38 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This is something that I can't argue with and I don't think PK can either...the organization obviously has a standard of doing business following entry deals, and this goes even beyond Price/Pacioretty, they've always worked this way.

So I fully support Bergevin in this instance...where I differ though, is the amount of money they're offering him on this 2 year deal

2.75M, is a joke for Subban if you ask me...and maybe if they started out at a higher number, PK Subban would be more inclined to back off his stance.
2.5M$ for Del Zotto and Kulikov, is it a joke too???

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:38 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
How do you think he will be received in the room? You think they will be thrilled when he comes back? You think he's thrilled to come back?

Don't be so naive.
Every player knows that this is how the business goes. Sometimes it's tougher, other times, not as much. I don't think the players know of the details of what's going on. Just to avoid them the distraction. And I strongly doubt they ever will.

I don't think there will be any issues in that regard. But to be just, nobody knows how the team will react. Saying otherwise is being naive.

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01-24-2013, 09:39 AM
  #43
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Sit in a ****ing room and figure this **** out. Seriously.
THIS ^ for ****s sake.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:42 AM
  #44
Pierre Dagenais
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2.5M$ for Del Zotto and Kulikov, is it a joke too???
Don't ever compare Del Zotto to Subban

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01-24-2013, 09:42 AM
  #45
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Sadly, not that I was a fan of his, but if Gauthier was still our GM Subban would've been locked up during the summer.. would've much rather had Subban overpaid than have this situation where we potentially trade him for less than his true value.

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01-24-2013, 09:43 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...erite---subban

Est-ce qu’une transaction ou une offre hostile d’une autre formation de la Ligue nationale de hockey a traversé l’esprit de Subban?

«Tu dois y penser à un certain moment, a-t-il avoué. Si tout le monde est tanné de cette situation et que le tout laisse un goût amer dans la bouche de tout le monde…»


Subban says it publicly, then I think he does wish to be traded if he doesn't get the contract that he wants.
You're misinterpreting what PK's saying. He's only stating the obvious. He's saying that if things keep on going as they are. And that when they reach a point where everyone's sour over the situation. That he will think of other teams. Those are a lot of ifs he's saying. And it sounds rather obvious and understandable if the negotiations last that long. It doesn't sound to me like he's given up yet.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:43 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
2.5M$ for Del Zotto and Kulikov, is it a joke too???
It is compared to Cam Fowler's 5 year, $4M extension.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:43 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
Hard to believe a deal isn't inked yet. I don't know if PK's being too demanding. Or if Bergevin isn't giving what PK deserves.

Personally, I hope PK stays a Hab. But it all depends on his contract and his performances on and off the ice. If he doesn't stay, I hope it depends on the return, which has the same ifs. Subban would be the safer of the two imo.

The real annoying part is we're more than likely not going to know what was offered if a deal doesn't pull through. And you just know fans are going to be convinced in their baseless beliefs no matter the position. And we'll have unrest over it.

C'mon Bergie and PK. Get this deal signed!
Here's my issue with going through the trade route.

A- I think we can all agree, if PK is put on the trade market, every team will call to see what the asking price is.

B- He is unsigned, and if traded, it's because he doesn't want a short term, at a cheap price. So, whoever calls, is doing so knowing PK is looking for a longer term at a fair value.

C- Any GM calling knows, they won't pay cheap for PK in terms of compensation to Habs via trade.

D- Bergevin doesn't want to give big money to PK, so what trade package return could we get that doesn't bring the cap up so much and is as good as PK?? Another young player on a ELC?? But then, won't we find ourselves in the exact same situation again after because Bergevin believes in bridge contracts after ELC?


Bergevin, just looking at A and C, should step back and think. Why is everybody interested in PK, and willing to pay a big return for him, and then give him the contract he wants??? Hmmm, could it be that he might actually be worth it??? He is by no means perfect, but there's little doubt as to him remaining a top pairing Dman. I mean, really, who questions that?? So, what's the risk here???

Bergevin said you need to have vision for the future, not just the now. He's going against his own words by saying he wants to instill a philosophy with bridge contracts. How does that show vision?? I mean, if you're hesitant to the point of locking out a player that's as sure as Subban to become a solid NHLer, your vision sucks, badly.

This is more than just a PK thing to me, this is scaring me from a managerial point of view. If Bergevin had some experience and we could look back at his doings and have an idea of what he can do. Unfortunately, he doesn't. So we have a rookie GM that is locking out arguably your best player over the past 2 years, just based on principle. Can't say that this makes me hopeful for the future. He better sign PK.

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:46 AM
  #49
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
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It is compared to Cam Fowler's 5 year, $4M extension.
bad comparison when it's to players making less I guess ?

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Old
01-24-2013, 09:48 AM
  #50
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bad comparison when it's to players making less I guess ?
Teams have no leverage when comparing players who make less. Every agent can just say, "He took less to stay with the team he's on". When a player makes more, it's the team agreeing to pay the player what they feel they are worth.

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