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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:08 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Del Zotto accepted 2,5 M$, what was the original first offer made by the Rangers? Surely below of that...

What Subban did to deserve almost 2 times more money than Del Zotto?


That's a rookie defenseman. Game 7. Time winding down.

Kid lives for those moments. He is the exact type of individual that thrives in a city like Montreal that eats the young and up-and-coming for breakfast.

You are seriously underestimating Subban here. The kid is an absolute stud and we are the biggest retards on earth for being this situation and will be (continue to be) the laughing stock of the league if we trade him. I am already sick to my stomach that the Rangers have a stud D in McDonagh that we gifted away. I get pissed off watching Sergei Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Streit etc. all give their team inspired hockey and they all have it in common. They all had potential. They showed one disagreement with the team that didn't fit their insanely stupid "organizational philosophy" and they were gone. Brought back minimal to no return. We finished 15th in the East.

The organizational philosophy should be to win. Subban is a winner. Trading Subban because you are low balling him well under market value and indicating he is not the key cog to your team that he actually is AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE.. is a loser philosophy.

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:08 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Because the Habs defense squad was decimed... Not because Subban is 2 more better than Del Zotto. We finished 15th for this reason, for your information...
This is what I hated the most. The whole young Oilers' offensive squad let them finish at the bottom of the league. They should not be paid anything more than an ELC.

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01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
And consistently being the best player on the ice in the playoffs.
... on a very bad team.

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01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
  #79
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Subban is marching to his own drum beat. He does not listen to his coaches, to his agent...

As long as he thinks that he is bigger than the team, there will be no agreement.


He's gonna be paid huge bucks down the road, but right now he should shut up and swallow the pill.

Bergevin won't trade him even if subban is provocative. He should pack his bag and go play in Europe if he wants to play hockey this year or even the next couple of years.

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01-24-2013, 10:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
P.K. also said that what he's asking if a fair deal in HIS opinion...


so, what's fair in HIS opinion ?
Pretty much what I wanted to say. I know that Stubbs is also a reliable source. But I don't think he really knows if Subban's asking for Doughty money or not. I strongly doubt that PK, Meehan or Bergie ever said anything going on in the contracts to anybody other than those who absolutely need to know. That would be stupid otherwise. I think Stubbs believes Subban isn't asking for Doughty money, which is very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, we can only go on what we heard, otherwise, why even discuss it.
PK isn't asking for the moon, he said so himself, and Stubbs even said PK isn't asking for Doughty money.

You want to get Subban for cheap, or not at all, so you can go overpay for aging players on the open market?? Ya, terrific vision...

If you are sure that PK will become a great player, you sign him long term now at a cheaper price than it will in a few years. What will it cost you indeed? Knowing PK isn't asking for the moon nor Doughty cash.
All players are aging. Doesn't mean they aren't worth spending on. When we signed Cole, everyone believed he's over-payed. I doubt anyone's regretting that decision.

Offering a bridge contract has it's good sides and bad. This offers the player the responsibility to the player to make his own future. The reason for a bridge contract allows a team to resign a player to a more just value. If a player plays better and keeps proving himself good during this time. A team would reward him with an even bigger contract. But it also goes the other way. If a player isn't as good as thought, the player gets a lesser contract. This is a way to reward the player justly. If we know Subban could be a better player. And he knows he can. He could take a shorter contract with a decent sum and make more money in the future. I agree with your point to sign slightly low and long term. But PK wants his fair share, as he says himself. What is indeed fair in his mind?


Last edited by Cupmonger: 01-24-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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01-24-2013, 10:11 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Subban is marching to his own drum beat. He doennot listen to his coaches, to his agent...

As long as. He thinks that he is bigger than the team, there will be no agreement.


He's gonna be paid huge bucks down the road, but right now he should shut up and swallow the pill.
This is basing yourself on what reporters and their wanabes have said. They all stated it's their opinion. In the end, nobody really knows what's going on in there other than those involved. Don't pass judgment on things we aren't certain of.

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01-24-2013, 10:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Do you think Ottawa went to Karlsson after last season and said "We know you scored 70 points as a D this season but you are young and before we give you a reasonable contract, we want to see if you can improve in your own zone.. accept this 2 year contract worth 3 million dollars, it is non negotiable."

Subban might not score that many points but he is just as valuable to our team as Karlsson is to Ottawa. Pay him as he deserves and stop sticking by some imaginary policy you want to create. Gainey had a no negotiation during the season policy.. How did that turn out for us? Souray, Streit, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Komisarek.. the list goes on.. A list of players who LEFT the team for NOTHING. A 20 goal defenseman, a powerplay savant who actually turns out to be rather good at D, a 2nd line center capable of 50-70 points, a dynamic offensive forward who was a year removed from an 80 point season, a consistent scoring winger who we paid a 1st round pick to get and a player,who at the time, was seen as a premiere shot blocking and physical defenseman.
Well the management team that had him all year knew what kind of player he was as they dealt with him all year, New management never had to deal with PK, and maybe what they heard or seen or the perception of what PK is makes them shaky and they want to be sure of the product they have before opening the vault.... à

Oh no i forgot, they don't know anything about managing a hockey club or hockey players since they only got paid doing it for the last 10 years... And every hockey fans on the Montreal Canadiens knows better cause we breath hockey here...

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01-24-2013, 10:12 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post


That's a rookie defenseman. Game 7. Time winding down.

Kid lives for those moments. He is the exact type of individual that thrives in a city like Montreal that eats the young and up-and-coming for breakfast.

You are seriously underestimating Subban here. The kid is an absolute stud and we are the biggest retards on earth for being this situation and will be (continue to be) the laughing stock of the league if we trade him. I am already sick to my stomach that the Rangers have a stud D in McDonagh that we gifted away. I get pissed off watching Sergei Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Streit etc. all give their team inspired hockey and they all have it in common. They all had potential. They showed one disagreement with the team that didn't fit their insanely stupid "organizational philosophy" and they were gone. Brought back minimal to no return. We finished 15th in the East.

The organizational philosophy should be to win. Subban is a winner. Trading Subban because you are low balling him well under market value and indicating he is not the key cog to your team that he actually is AT SUCH A YOUNG AGE.. is a loser philosophy.
I am a 110% with you man. It's much easy for them to send away good talent for cheap than to work with these players. It's really sickening.

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:13 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
This is what I hated the most. The whole young Oilers' offensive squad let them finish at the bottom of the league. They should not be paid anything more than an ELC.
Why do you overstate that much?

The Oilers' situation is a good example that to give big money quickly to your young players don't give you a lot of wins...

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01-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Subban is marching to his own drum beat. He doennot listen to his coaches, to his agent...

As long as. He thinks that he is bigger than the team, there will be no agreement.


He's gonna be paid huge bucks down the road, but right now he should shut up and swallow the pill.
good call

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01-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
Maybe Edmonton would be interested!
Subban for Schultz and 2nd rounder?

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01-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
P.K. also said that what he's asking if a fair deal in HIS opinion...


so, what's fair in HIS opinion ?
If you believe Bobby Mac, he tweeted Habs were offering him 2.75M, and that the difference betwee both sides is between 2-3M. If you do the math, it means PK is asking between 4.75-5-75M. Maybe he'd go even lower considering you usually find a just middle.
If Bobby Mac is right, then no reason to think PK would refuse 4.5M, which certainly would fall into the fair value he's talking about.

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01-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
So you think he's worth Cam Fowler money?

Seriously folks, Cam Fowler received a five year, $4M per season extension with the Ducks only because he put up decent offensive numbers. His defensively play is not up to NHL par but he puts up points so the Ducks are paying him for it.

Subban puts up similar points, is unbelievably superior in the defensive game and will pay more taxes in Montreal but he's worth 4 million max?
There is a different economic climate now with the new salary cap under the new CBA. The salary cap is going down to $64 M next year, and the contract rules are having a deflation effect on salaries. The Michael Del Zotto (sp? and Dimitri K in Florida contacts are evidence of that (2 years @ $2.5 M). MDZ had similar offensive numbers to Subban.

I like the Montreal Canadiens stance in ensuring younger players do not hit the lottery too soon, wait for a third contract and know for sure what kind of player you are dealing with, especially in a salary cap world, before you have another Scott Gomez on your hands.

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01-24-2013, 10:15 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
Pretty much what I wanted to say. I know that Stubbs is also a reliable source. But I don't think he really knows if Subban's asking for Doughty money or not. I strongly doubt that PK, Meehan or Bergie ever said anything going on in the contracts to anybody other than those who absolutely need to know. That would be stupid otherwise. I think Stubbs believes Subban isn't asking for Doughty money, which is very different.
In my opinion, and its just my opinion, the big problem isn't the money, but the term of the contract.

I believe Habs want 2 years, Subban wants a long term deal.

I am not a talent evaluator, nor a scout, but my personal believe is that it is stupid not to sign him to a long term deal at 4-5 million.

But I also do not like some of his comments, like saying he wants to be paid what he thinks he is worth, etc.. honestly those comments are part of PK being PK, what makes him great and why we all love him, but they are also typical of what gets him in trouble sometimes, he has a very high opinion of himself, which gives him great confidence and the ability to play shutdown D against Crosby in his first playoff game, but also makes him come across as cocky, selfish and arrogant. Can't have one without the other IMO ... Hal Gill said it best when he said after he left, that you have to let PK be PK, you don't change him .. but you have to understand, that means you get some bad with the good too.

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01-24-2013, 10:16 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I am a 110% with you man. It's much easy for them to send away good talent for cheap than to work with these players. It's really sickening.
not happy, i'm sure the leafs are accepting new die hard fans, or maybe Ottawa...

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01-24-2013, 10:17 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
This is basing yourself on what reporters and their wanabes have said. They all stated it's their opinion. In the end, nobody really knows what's going on in there other than those involved. Don't pass judgment on things we aren't certain of.
Have you read the interview with him in the Montreal Gazette today ?

Theze are His words,not fiction.

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01-24-2013, 10:18 AM
  #92
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This is basing yourself on what reporters and their wanabes have said. They all stated it's their opinion. In the end, nobody really knows what's going on in there other than those involved. Don't pass judgment on things we aren't certain of.
Blinded by love. If the guys in the room wanted Subban, they wouldve call for it in the media. He's not 100% loved and it shows.

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01-24-2013, 10:19 AM
  #93
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The number of players that are quite valuable, and producing in other places in the league, which this organization has let go is quite astonishing. I hope they do not do the same with Subban, who has shown that he is a great defensman and one this team can build around. He is still raw but has shown what he can do. Just sign him already.

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01-24-2013, 10:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
Pretty much what I wanted to say. I know that Stubbs is also a reliable source. But I don't think he really knows if Subban's asking for Doughty money or not. I strongly doubt that PK, Meehan or Bergie ever said anything going on in the contracts to anybody other than those who absolutely need to know. That would be stupid otherwise. I think Stubbs believes Subban isn't asking for Doughty money, which is very different.
You realize Stubbs had a 1 on 1 with PK recently right?? Where PK came out with his words about wanting fair value, etc..
If after this interview, Stubbs says PK isn't looking for Doughty cash, I think there's a very good chance he's right. It could be an opinion, it could also be an off the record statement from PK.
But being a guy that had the chance to talk to PK, I won't believe a random rumor over his words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
Subban for Schultz and 2nd rounder?
The Schultz that has 2 NHL games under his belt but yet makes just under 4M??? Ya, real smart.

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01-24-2013, 10:19 AM
  #95
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But I also do not like some of his comments, like saying he wants to be paid what he thinks he is worth, etc.. honestly those comments are part of PK being PK, what makes him great and why we all love him, but they are also typical of what gets him in trouble sometimes, he has a very high opinion of himself, which gives him great confidence and the ability to play shutdown D against Crosby in his first playoff game, but also makes him come across as cocky, selfish and arrogant. Can't have one without the other IMO ... Hal Gill said it best when he said after he left, that you have to let PK be PK, you don't change him .. but you have to understand, that means you get some bad with the good too.
At least PK told people what was on his mind. I rather have that than those robotic comments: "I loved the city. I liked to play here. Hopefully a contract will be signed soon".

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01-24-2013, 10:19 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
There is a different economic climate now with the new salary cap under the new CBA. The salary cap is going down to $64 M next year, and the contract rules are having a deflation effect on salaries. The Michael Del Zotto (sp? and Dimitri K in Florida contacts are evidence of that (2 years @ $2.5 M). MDZ had similar offensive numbers to Subban.

I like the Montreal Canadiens stance in ensuring younger players do not hit the lottery too soon, wait for a third contract and know for sure what kind of player you are dealing with, especially in a salary cap world, before you have another Scott Gomez on your hands.
Actually, the Canadiens are pretty close to having another Scott Gomez on their hands: trading an elite defenceman under the age of 25 and having nothing to show for it three years down the road.

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01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
  #97
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Blinded by love. If the guys in the room wanted Subban, they wouldve call for it in the media. He's not 100% loved and it shows.
By that logic you could say the same about Benn and O'Reilly

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01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
  #98
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Conference call Meehan / Subban

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01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If you believe Bobby Mac, he tweeted Habs were offering him 2.75M, and that the difference betwee both sides is between 2-3M. If you do the math, it means PK is asking between 4.75-5-75M. Maybe he'd go even lower considering you usually find a just middle.
If Bobby Mac is right, then no reason to think PK would refuse 4.5M, which certainly would fall into the fair value he's talking about.
I really doubt he knows the exact number...

let's say the initial offer is closer to 3.25 (instead of 2.75 wich isnt really that much more), and that instead of 2/3, it's 2.5/3.5 difference...

Bobby Mac is still right as it's very close to the other numbers, but we're closer to 6 or 6.5...

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01-24-2013, 10:21 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Well the management team that had him all year knew what kind of player he was as they dealt with him all year, New management never had to deal with PK, and maybe what they heard or seen or the perception of what PK is makes them shaky and they want to be sure of the product they have before opening the vault.... à

Oh no i forgot, they don't know anything about managing a hockey club or hockey players since they only got paid doing it for the last 10 years... And every hockey fans on the Montreal Canadiens knows better cause we breath hockey here...
I hate this stupid argument. "You think you know better than these professionals?" In case you haven't noticed, these professionals get fired regularly for being bad at their job and when they do horribly they never get a chance to do it again.

Yes, I certainly know better than idiots who have traded away stud young players at the first sign of growing pains or that they need to go through a maturation process. The results speak for themselves. We are where we are because we have operated on an organizational philosophy that has a losing trend.

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