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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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01-24-2013, 10:57 AM
  #176
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
There's a whole lot more to a D than point production. Which is a concept most people on this board can't seem to grasp.

WHY DO WE WANT TO GIVE ALL THOSE MONEY TO SUBBAN HE HASN'T EVEN BROKE 40 POINTS?!?!
Err...I was only responding to Malton who said Kaberle success was only by riding on McCabe's coattails... The response has nothing to do with what type of D or how good of a D Subban is. Actually, nothing to do with Subban at all

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01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ROSSter View Post
I have no problem with MB pinching pennies on this one. Subban take the two year deal. After that ask for your pay day. You haven't proven anything yet.
To be honest, IF that's the case (and we don't know that it is)I have an issue with him penny pinching our #1 d-man for the last two years. You don't pay Prust $2.5M (yes, pre-CBA) and then penny pinch Subban, that's just not logical.

Besides, PK has proven plenty. The stats prove it.

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01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I hate this stupid argument. "You think you know better than these professionals?" In case you haven't noticed, these professionals get fired regularly for being bad at their job and when they do horribly they never get a chance to do it again.

Yes, I certainly know better than idiots who have traded away stud young players at the first sign of growing pains or that they need to go through a maturation process. The results speak for themselves. We are where we are because we have operated on an organizational philosophy that has a losing trend.
Yeah and most get's rehired and paid... where is your hockey check

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #179
malton
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
It's like that everywhere buddy. You don't just graduate, start working in a company and expect to earn more than the guy doing the same job as you who has been there for 10 years even if you are more qualified and better than him.
As an owner of my own business i can tell you this is not the case. If you have an exceptional talent, you pay them what they are worth or they go somewhere else.

this theory only applies to everyday ordinary employees.

I wouldn't pay a kid coming out York university with 0 experience the same as i would a person who graduated 5 years prior for the same establishment.

However if you think an MBA graduate coming out of Harvard isn't worth or shouldn't be worth more than somebody with 10yrs experience then you just don't know how the world works.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #180
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Meehan and Bergevin are talking as we speak.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
That's great. He is a veteran and he can produce at a similar clip to Subban. Yet Subban is more physical, more dynamic with the puck, has a better shot, is better in his own end and has a lot more speed. On top of that he agitates the opposition and gets them off their game.
Subban : 2 seasons, not once 40 pts although very close... can you guarantee he'll remain a 40 pts player for the rest of his career ?

nope.

obviously you can't guarantee Kaberle will remain a 40 pts player, but since he did it for te last decade or so...




couldnt care less who's more dynamic than the other, the guy could sleep on the bench for all I care, the goal he'll score wil have the same value as the goal scored by the dynamic player...

if anything comments like this show people like him cause he's flashy.

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01-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I have been in Montreal for more than 30 years. The Habs has always been my team. You are not going to tell me which team I can support. Are Habs' fans now taking the position that if you do not support the Habs' management team then go somewhere else.
If it aggravate you that much and you can't do a damn thing about it but criticize, wouldn't you be better serve by rooting for a team that satisfy you.... And i've been in Montreal for more than 40 years, and if i had to complain so much about my hockey team, i think i would have got an ulcer... and it's not worth it...

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01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by malton View Post
I've followed kaberle since he entered the nhl(since i live in the toronto area) and i know exactly what he brings to the table. If you think he is more valuable as a dman than subban then there's no point in discussing this.

The fact is we're comparing our 23yo stud dman to buy out candidates.
My lord, what is with people today? Where did I say or even imply anything about Subban? I was only commenting on your comment about Kaberle and McCabe. And yes, I have also followed Kabs career because I also live in Toronto.

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01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #184
Erik Estrada
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Meehan and Bergevin are talking as we speak.
Talking is good.

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01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Meehan and Bergevin are talking as we speak.
a deal will get done ......

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #186
malton
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
My lord, what is with people today? Where did I say or even imply anything about Subban? I was only commenting on your comment about Kaberle and McCabe. And yes, I have also followed Kabs career because I also live in Toronto.
i'm not talking about you in specific. My comment was directed at the person i originally quoted. You defending his stance can only leave me to believe one thing

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01-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by malton View Post
As an owner of my own business i can tell you this is not the case. If you have an exceptional talent, you pay them what they are worth or they go somewhere else.

this theory only applies to everyday ordinary employees.

I wouldn't pay a kid coming out York university with 0 experience the same as i would a person who graduated 5 years prior for the same establishment.

However if you think an MBA graduate coming out of Harvard isn't worth or shouldn't be worth more than somebody with 10yrs experience then you just don't know how the world works.
thing is, you dont "own" employees for a period of time like teams with their RFA.

regular employees, in pretty much every field, are free to quit a company and go work elsewhere whenever they can, RFA cannot.

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01-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #188
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If he plays amazing defensively, ya you have to pay a lot more than the 4.5M because at that point you would be paying UFA years vs RFA years.
Yes but there is a gradation to be made and jumping him too much right now could create bigger problem in the future...

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:04 AM
  #189
malton
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
thing is, you dont "own" employees for a period of time like teams with their RFA.

regular employees, in pretty much every field, are free to quit a company and go work elsewhere whenever they can, RFA cannot.
There are contracts in almost every field of business. So your point is invalid.

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01-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #190
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He should take the 2 year deal and prove he's worth the long term contract. Obviously there is risk involved, but it's not like 6 million dollars + endorsements is pocket change.

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01-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Sounds a whole lot like Higgins and McDonagh for Gomez and Pyatt.

Give your head a shake.
Really, how so? Benn is on the upswing and Gomez the downswing, plus we aren't giving up a top prospect.

Maybe it's you who should shake your head?

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
thing is, you dont "own" employees for a period of time like teams with their RFA.

regular employees, in pretty much every field, are free to quit a company and go work elsewhere whenever they can, RFA cannot.
Actually RFA's can. They just can't do it in the NHL. They are free to leave the NHL and get a deskjob, or a job in another country, etc. etc.

It's no different than in the real world. Most high profile companies have clauses that don't allow you to work for a competing company within say a year of your job with them etc.

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01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
Really, how so? Benn is on the upswing and Gomez the downswing, plus we aren't giving up a top prospect.

Maybe it's you who should shake your head?
Yeah we're only giving up a top defenseman instead of a top prospect..

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
If it aggravate you that much and you can't do a damn thing about it but criticize, wouldn't you be better serve by rooting for a team that satisfy you.... And i've been in Montreal for more than 40 years, and if i had to complain so much about my hockey team, i think i would have got an ulcer... and it's not worth it...
I am not the only one complaining about Habs' management. The philosophical bridge contract is just stupid. Since when a team supporter is not allowed to show his/her dissatifaction. Do I have to support Rejean Houles? Do I have to agree with Gainey's principle of no contract talk during the season? I rest my case.

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01-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
simple logic : MB made an offer that he probably think is fair, PK says he's asking for what he think is fair value / and here you are siding with P.K cause he wants FAIR contract... that's bullcrap.

re-read the first sentence : doubt he has the exact numbers.

it's an example, it could very well be the other way around, exact numbers being 2.25 with a 2/2.5 difference... just shows that while being somewhat right, a LITTLE difference cause change lots of things at the end.


but hey, I used an example that doesnt fit your view on the situation, so I hate the kid, right ?
I'm siding with PK because I think it's stupid to have a policy on bridge contracts. You need to be flexible. Just like it was stupid for Gainey to have a no-negotation during season policy. Why handcuff yourself? In some cases, players might be worth to skip that bridge contract.
I also think it's poor management to sign a kid that has played as well as PK on a short term deal only to sign him to a longer deal, at a higher price tag, later on. Lacks vision.

I don't think you hate Subban, I think your evaluation is mediocre at best. The reason why is you refuse to look at advance stats and their conclusion. Instead you just focus on points. Quite dishonest.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:08 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by malton View Post
There are contracts in almost every field of business. So your point is invalid.
worked in various field, even did management for big corp for years, and not even once I was asked (in a contract for example) not to do certain things after I leave. ALWAYS had the option to quit, ALWAYS had the option to do whatever I want once I was gone.

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01-24-2013, 11:08 AM
  #197
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If he's not signing wait until we are close to the end of the year and trade him for a top 5 pick

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #198
HABsurde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Sounds a whole lot like Higgins and McDonagh for Gomez and Pyatt.

Give your head a shake.
Are you comparing Gomez to Benn??? you should give your head a shake....

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #199
pepperMonkey
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i'm not talking about you in specific. My comment was directed at the person i originally quoted. You defending his stance can only leave me to believe one thing
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. You quoted me but you are directing your comment to someone else? I'm defending someone else? I was only responding to something you said.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #200
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Just to show you guys how bad the Montreal media actually is, found this on facebook followed by many angry fans bashing PK

Actual quote from Dave Stubbs article: “We’re not trying to rob the bank here (in contract talks). We’re not reinventing anything. We’re not holding a gun to the Canadiens’ head saying, ‘Pay us this or we’re walking away.’ We just want to be compensated for what I’m worth.”

and then check the heading on this site http://habsolumentfan.com/content/pa...u-je-m-en-vais

Don't know how to do a copy paste of the print screen or I would but it says "PAYEZ-MOI OU JE M’EN VAIS" as the headline..

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