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*ALL* PK Subban talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) II

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01-24-2013, 11:18 AM
  #201
Go Wings
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Alright let me try to make a decent deal for Subban from the Red Wings:


Smith, Filppula and Sheahan

or

Smith, Sheahan and 1st round pick

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01-24-2013, 11:19 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
I agree with this statement...I just don't view him as a number 1 Dman for the reasons I already mentionned. Hey, there's nothing wrong with being a number 2 Dman in the NHL.

Therefore, as a number 2 Dman, I don't think he is worth number 1 Dman money. Again, I was answering an Oilers fan asking if the Habs would match a 6.5 M$ offer sheet, which is number 1 Dman money.
granted. he's not worth 6.5 now, in the future though? the only problem with the 6.5m offer is who's offering it.

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01-24-2013, 11:19 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Zoombie View Post
Montreal wants PK to sign, but they ain't getting that either... What about those massively deep pockets?
has nothing to do with NOT being able to afford him. has to do with how they perceive value or second contracts. the habs have spent a small fortune in the last two years firing coaches and GM's - and buying out their mistakes. they're not afraid of the money...it appears to be term

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01-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I've seen better in this thread. The single entity high-quality asset is the biggest factor for me. Something with just Yakupov alone, for example, is more interesting than a large collection of "good stuff".
yakupov in a deal isn't even near realistic. it may be cool on hfboards but its not happening. that offer from alexmanu will be a better package for PK than what the habs actually get if he is traded. id bet ya

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01-24-2013, 11:22 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
yakupov in a deal isn't even near realistic. it may be cool on hfboards but its not happening. that offer from alexmanu will be a better package for PK than what the habs actually get if he is traded. id bet ya
yakupov isn't realistic? a projected very good goal scorer vs a 23 y.o no 1 or 2 dman with great offensive skills but a whole pile of maybes and late 1st rounders is fair?

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01-24-2013, 11:22 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
I believe $6.7M-$8.4M is worth two 1sts, 2nd & 3rd. $8.4M+ would be worth 4 first rounders.

Would be interesting to see what Montreal would do if Subban was offered $6.5M/yr deal.
I would have to think they would match.

UFA options in the past offseasons:

Matt Carle: 6/33 (5.5)
Dennis Wideman 5/26.25 (5.25)
James Wisinewski 6/33 (5.5)

So ya it's overpayment but you have to match because you're not going to replace him via UFA.

If we get into the 6.8 per year (or a longer contract that brings that number up) then its a more difficult decision.

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01-24-2013, 11:27 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
I would have to think they would match.

UFA options in the past offseasons:

Matt Carle: 6/33 (5.5)
Dennis Wideman 5/26.25 (5.25)
James Wisinewski 6/33 (5.5)

So ya it's overpayment but you have to match because you're not going to replace him via UFA.

If we get into the 6.8 per year (or a longer contract that brings that number up) then its a more difficult decision.
and it gets more complicated. who needs him and who has the firsts to give up etc...
I would also think there would be retaliation on part of habs going forward

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01-24-2013, 11:27 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
yakupov isn't realistic? a projected very good goal scorer vs a 23 y.o no 1 or 2 dman with great offensive skills but a whole pile of maybes and late 1st rounders is fair?
lol yes thats exactly what im saying.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright let me try to make a decent deal for Subban from the Red Wings:


Smith, Filppula and Sheahan

or

Smith, Sheahan and 1st round pick
Tossing in Sheahan is just adding negative value. Not many people are going to want to take on a problem child, least of all Montreal, who has enough problems with keeping players disciplined when they play here.

Filppula isn't really what the Habs need and Smith is interesting, but the Habs already have blueliners like Beaulieu and Tinordi knocking on the door...I think they'd like something more proven. Your offer leaves us with a gaping hole on our blueline.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by alexmanu View Post
You wouldn't get a better offer than that imo. Unless the Flyers are desperate.
There will be a lot of pressure for Toronto to eventually come in with a lot better offer then that and if not I think Bergevin will do the pragmatic thing and save his own job by sucking it up and signing Subban. Also, players like Huberdeau or Couturier would also generate interest from the Habs.

Montreal fans will run Bergevin out of town if he screws this up, and your offer is in that category.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
First of all, any deal involving Klefbom is not crap, get that though your head.

A trade is imminent. One things for sure, if Subban doesn't sign with the habs, he will be traded or he will sign elsewhere.
He can't. He's not a UFA, he's a RFA and the Habs have his rights for the next few seasons. If the Habs decide he's not going to get the term and money, he doesn't get it. He sits. It's not the way to handle negotiations, but the Habs have the Hammer in this contract issue. I hope something gets done soon, so this can get put to bed.

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01-24-2013, 11:28 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
yakupov in a deal isn't even near realistic. it may be cool on hfboards but its not happening. that offer from alexmanu will be a better package for PK than what the habs actually get if he is traded. id bet ya
No, I agree, I've always turned down the Yakupov offers too, to date he has represented too unproven a commodity to trade Subban for. I'm just using that as an example of the high-end quality main component I'd look for in a trade. I'd pass on just Yakupov still. But it would also make the candidate list. And if someday I was actually *forced* to make a deal on my list, I'd rather have the high-end single entity like Yakupov than the offered collection from Nashville.

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01-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #213
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keep in mind the price for weber this past summer was read, meszaros, 1st, and a 2nd.. something like that. philly fans want to correct that?

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01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
If we're willing to offer Klefbom (former first round pick) as well as a another 1st and 2nd, why not just put together an offer sheet?
Because;
1) if you really want him, you're going to have to sign him to even more than he wants because MTL would match anything up to $6.7.
2) if MTL matches, he can't be traded.

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01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
There will be a lot of pressure for Toronto to eventually come in with a lot better offer then that and if not I think Bergevin will do the pragmatic thing and save his own job by sucking it up and signing Subban. Also, players like Huberdeau or Couturier would also generate interest from the Habs.

Montreal fans will run Bergevin out of town if he screws this up, and your offer is in that category.
agreed. there's just no way bergevin - or molson for that matter would ever let a fan favorite like subban go to Toronto or Boston...the west is realistic like Edm..but the oilers aren't getting him for pjaarvi, gagner and a 2nd

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01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #216
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An offer I would entertained if iI was Bergevin, and which makes sense for the other team, is Niederreiter, Visnovsky, and a 1st for Subban.

Subban really seems like the perfect fit for NYI, as he would replace (and add) to the lacking Visnovsky. + he's one of the most marketable player in the league, and I'm sure it would give Montreal a lot of leverage if a deal would happen with a financially struggling organization. Also, NYI doesn't lose much trading 2 disgruntled players in Nino and Vis. The steep price is the 1st, since I believe it will still be Top 5, but that's what it would take and I'm sure Wang and Snow would be all over that.

Bergevin would have to talk with both Visnovsky and Nino prior to the trade to make sure they would both report.

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
keep in mind the price for weber this past summer was read, meszaros, 1st, and a 2nd.. something like that. philly fans want to correct that?
and we see how much Poile loved that offer

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #218
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People want to give a package of garbage for a hell of a D.

We dont want quantity. We want quality.

Subban for Couturier
Subban for Benn
Subban for Ryan
Subban for a good forward.

You wont have Subban for : scrap + scrap + late 1st pick.

If he's traded it wont be in one on one. It will be something in the range of (Subban + Forward vs Forward + Dman) :

Subban + Bourque vs Benn + Daley
Subban + Eller vs Couturier + ??
Subban + Bourque vs Statsny + ??

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
No, I agree, I've always turned down the Yakupov offers too, to date he has represented too unproven a commodity to trade Subban for. I'm just using that as an example of the high-end quality main component I'd look for in a trade. I'd pass on just Yakupov still. But it would also make the candidate list. And if someday I was actually *forced* to make a deal on my list, I'd rather have the high-end single entity like Yakupov than the offered collection from Nashville.
im not going on value. im just saying those trade very rarely happen (yakupov) .. even trades with guys like couturier for PK are rare. I just think you are going to be looking at a package of good things for PK not something thats just great alone. Subban is wanting to get paid so I dont know how that affects the minds of GMs

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01-24-2013, 11:34 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by jeromeo87 View Post
Ryan Murphy, Jamie McBain and Zach Boychuk for P.K. Subban and Aaron Palushaj
Murphy is too risky right now (tho' I like him a lot personally/historically) and McBain is too pedestrian. You can have Palushaj for free though. He'll be on waivers probably once he gets healthy enough. This offer would not make my candidates list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright let me try to make a decent deal for Subban from the Red Wings:
Smith, Filppula and Sheahan
or
Smith, Sheahan and 1st round pick
Well, Smith is the right guy to include. I think there is something that could be built upon from DET if Smith and a 1st were in the package. A Filppula 3-month rental would carry some value, but maybe not the best market value possible for that asset, given the Habs' likely low chances of competing this year.

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01-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
No, I agree, I've always turned down the Yakupov offers too, to date he has represented too unproven a commodity to trade Subban for. I'm just using that as an example of the high-end quality main component I'd look for in a trade. I'd pass on just Yakupov still. But it would also make the candidate list. And if someday I was actually *forced* to make a deal on my list, I'd rather have the high-end single entity like Yakupov than the offered collection from Nashville.
BG read his post the Nashville expert thinks yakupov is worth MORE

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01-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #222
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Subban really comes of as a greedy ******* by now.

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01-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #223
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Tossing in Sheahan is just adding negative value. Not many people are going to want to take on a problem child, least of all Montreal, who has enough problems with keeping players disciplined when they play here.

Filppula isn't really what the Habs need and Smith is interesting, but the Habs already have blueliners like Beaulieu and Tinordi knocking on the door...I think they'd like something more proven. Your offer leaves us with a gaping hole on our blueline.
Alright let's try something else

Ericsson, Jurco, Paterson

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01-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
and we see how much Poile loved that offer
you are right he hated it. but before weber was offer sheeted, this was price other GMs were willing to pay. sometimes what the guy holding the goods values it at is different than what the guy wanting the goods values it at. and i think this is the case here. if weber gets a package around that, there are gonna be alot of disappointed habs fans. cause no offense but weber is what PK wishes he could be. weber is twice the #1 defenseman subban is

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01-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
im not going on value. im just saying those trade very rarely happen (yakupov) .. even trades with guys like couturier for PK are rare. I just think you are going to be looking at a package of good things for PK not something thats just great alone. Subban is wanting to get paid so I dont know how that affects the minds of GMs
Well, IMHO none of these trades are going to happen. Subban will sign with the Habs. But yeah, if a trade happens it will be a rare one, with young players of such magnitude, it rarely ever happens. There aren't any real rules for that or precedents you can go by. I'm also going to drive a harder bargain than I expect Bergevin would, given I value Subban higher than Bergevin seems to.

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