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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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01-24-2013, 11:42 AM
  #276
MTL-rules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Caller on Team 690 minutes ago

"PK Subban's attitude reminds of of Terrell Owens and Randy Moss"

Now, I just want to poit out...the caller didn't think of comparing PK Subban's attitude to other known cocky hockey players such as Jeremy Roenick, or Brett Hull...instead, he crossed into another sport, football, to compare him to 2 reknown 'me first' type of players...

As I said earlier...you can ignore certain issues all you want and act like they don't exist...but they're always there, right beneath the surface
There's still a lot of racism in our society and the hockey world. Some of the critics against Subban comes from it... but so is his popularity... sometimes I feel people treat him like a mascot (and the term mascot is the polite one).

But we can't scream racism to every critic put forward. I have a big problem toward PK's general attitude on the ice and sometimes off the ice and yes his general ego. He seems like a very fun guy, generous with the fans and all, but he seem to have a very big ego and strong personnaly that seems to cause certain problems on and off the ice. I'm concern he might never fully develop his great talent if he doesn't change a little his ways on the ice. That's why, just like MB, I tend to want to wait and see in his case... let's just say, he doesn't have Galchenyuk personnality.

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01-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
2.7 for a first offer is not lowballing unless PK ask for 5.5-6 which he is not worthed....

you negociated, settle around 3.25-3.5 that's it....
Why the hell would PK sign for 3.25-3.5? He's worth more than that. He's a least a 4.5 million dollar player and it's probably closer to 5. If he was a free agent on the open market asking for 6 per at 7 years we wouldn't even hesistate to make that offer. Even if he is overpaid, that's what he could fetch on the market and we'd do that deal, so would tons of other clubs in the league.

He's an RFA, that give us leverage and we can get a bit of a discount. 4.5... maybe, if PK wanted to be nice. But he's a 5 million dollar player and I think we need to recognize this. We've already had him for extremely cheap for a couple of years. He's earned a pay bump and I think it's silly to have a policy that doesn't allow for exceptions.

PK is an exceptional player and there's no reason not to be willing to be a little flexible here. I understand the bridge contract mentality but if the guy doesn't want it, then pay him 5.5 per year at 7 years. It's comparable to Myers, we get him long term, he's paid a little more than he's worth now and by the end he's a bargain. Just meet in the middle and get it done.

If you think he should accept a 3.25 mil contract you don't understand anything. There's no way he should sign that.

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01-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
His cap was likely more than that or equivalent due to bonuses. Also, it's insulting because that is not a fair market price for what Subban brings to your team. Find me a team, in the league, who has a young defenseman on their top pairing, playing 20+ minutes a night, for the past two seasons, and has them signed for 3 million or a number near that? ELC's excluded.
tell that to people making 40K a year, paying for his salary trough purchases or tickets, gear, etc...


If he think it it's INSULTING to make 3 Mil a year playing hockey, he can get the **** out then.

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01-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Yes sir. But Subban aint Crosby. Hopefully we trade that cocky little piece of sh***.
To each his own...to you he's a cocky little piece of sh**

To many, many others...he's someone to look up to.

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01-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
But seriously, what that caller said...is feelings that MANY hockey fans and hockey pundits share.
It's funny, one of my good friends made the exact same comparison as radio caller (PK, long before the hold-out happened, to the same two football guys), and I called him on it for the exact same reasons.

It's funny to think how many people have that precise grouping distilled into their psyche, and I'm willing to say race is a significant factor.

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01-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
For. The. LAST.... TIME

There is more to a DEFENSEMAN than how many POINTS he produces.

If you don't KNOW that. Remove yourself from the discussion.
Not just that. But Del Zotto has been playing low minuteswhile not in the top pairings and put on the PP rush. Sure Del Zooto's good. But his case isn't like PK's.

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01-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Caller on Team 690 minutes ago

"PK Subban's attitude reminds me of Terrell Owens and Randy Moss"

Now, I just want to point out...the caller didn't think of comparing PK Subban's attitude to other known cocky hockey players such as Jeremy Roenick, or Brett Hull...instead, he crossed into another sport, football, to compare him to 2 reknown 'me first' type of players...

As I said earlier...you can ignore certain issues all you want and act like they don't exist...but they're always there, right beneath the surface
Horrible comparison(s). He's black so he is Owens or Moss...beyond moronic.

Owens has a huge ego and comnes across like he could care less about the team as long as he gets the ball thrown to him. PK has never said anything about his usage or having to play tough minutes versus just an offensive role. Perceiving his exuberance as selfish is a huge reach. Grasping at straws.

Moss had legal problems and was kicked off a huge NCAA school(where players usually get away with murder) and had to go play at a small school before the draft. He had numerous other legal issues in Minnesota...though to give him credit he was a good citizen after the first few years. PK has never, to my knowledge, been kicked off or suspended from any team or had any leagal problems.


For a fanbase(in general) that prides itself on being knowledgeable there are sure a lot of fans taht have no clue about hockey beyond..."we win, we have a great team" ..."we lose so we suck".

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01-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
To each his own...to you he's a cocky little piece of sh**

To many, many others...he's someone to look up to.
Is he a Hjalmersson at least?
Or a Bolland?

The idea that a player HAS to sign a bridge contract is ridiculous.

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01-24-2013, 11:45 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Hey, you said it lol not me I know it never comes off right when a minority plays the race card lol

But seriously, what that caller said...is feelings that MANY hockey fans and hockey pundits share.
I bet there's tons more who don't but just aren't vocal about it like they are.

If you guys start worrying about sideline Mr Joes that call Randy on his am radio show at lunch hour you're going to give yourselves ulcers. What that guy thinks means squat.

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01-24-2013, 11:45 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
3X what he was making last year, how is that an insult ?
You know that the dollars and terms of ELCs are completely artificial.

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01-24-2013, 11:45 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Caller on Team 690 minutes ago

"PK Subban's attitude reminds me of Terrell Owens and Randy Moss"

Now, I just want to point out...the caller didn't think of comparing PK Subban's attitude to other known cocky hockey players such as Jeremy Roenick, or Brett Hull...instead, he crossed into another sport, football, to compare him to 2 reknown 'me first' type of players...

As I said earlier...you can ignore certain issues all you want and act like they don't exist...but they're always there, right beneath the surface
bingo...

not too mention that if you actually read or listen to what Subban says in interviews (about this situation or previously), he comes across far more like a genuine "team-first" character guy, and not in the least bit like the me-first jerks this caller compares him to.

meanwhile, two other -white- nhl'ers are holding out and no comparison to them.


hmmmm

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:46 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
I assume people that are bringing up race are just talking about fan's opinions and not those of MB and the Habs organization?
Absolutely. I doubt it affects the direct negotiation, however, to see the subject brought up as a factor in the public's reaction and feeling towards PK and then brushed off as "left-field" is troubling... the idea that "everything's ok" when it isn't might be the very thing that sends this world over the edge...

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01-24-2013, 11:46 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Caller on Team 690 minutes ago

"PK Subban's attitude reminds me of Terrell Owens and Randy Moss"

Now, I just want to point out...the caller didn't think of comparing PK Subban's attitude to other known cocky hockey players such as Jeremy Roenick, or Brett Hull...instead, he crossed into another sport, football, to compare him to 2 reknown 'me first' type of players...

As I said earlier...you can ignore certain issues all you want and act like they don't exist...but they're always there, right beneath the surface
Bringing up TO really does smack of racism. And I'm sorry but the two players aren't at all alike except for skin colour. No reason to try to force this parallel at all. Tarring PK with the stain of TO is a desperate reach grasping at straws.

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01-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
tell that to people making 40K a year, paying for his salary trough purchases or tickets, gear, etc...


If he think it it's INSULTING to make 3 Mil a year playing hockey, he can get the **** out then.
Why?

What does the Habs offer have to do with anybody making 40k?

Can any of them step into the NHL and play 20+ minutes and produce? No. So who cares what they think. This isn't about PR it's about getting one of your best players signed.

If John Q Public doesn't want to go to NHL games or not watch they don't have to, it's a free country. Ridiculous argument.

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01-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
There's still a lot of racism in our society and the hockey world. Some of the critics against Subban comes from it... but so is his popularity... sometimes I feel people treat him like a mascot (and the term mascot is the polite one).

But we can't scream racism to every critic put forward. I have a big problem toward PK's general attitude on the ice and sometimes off the ice and yes his general ego. He seems like a very fun guy, generous with the fans and all, but he seem to have a very big ego and strong personnaly that seems to cause certain problems on and off the ice. I'm concern he might never fully develop his great talent if he doesn't change a little his ways on the ice. That's why, just like MB, I tend to want to wait and see in his case... let's just say, he doesn't have Galchenyuk personnality.
I haven't used that word at all...that's not what I would say it is.

It's not racism...ignorance? Fear? Out of touch with reality? Sure...but not racism, at least not outwardly.

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01-24-2013, 11:48 AM
  #291
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I wouldn't mind if we trade him. But I want a D in return.

In general, I'm not fond of the egocentric, flashy and cocky players.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why?

What does the Habs offer have to do with anybody making 40k?

Can any of them step into the NHL and play 20+ minutes and produce? No. So who cares what they think. This isn't about PR it's about getting one of your best players signed.

If John Q Public doesn't want to go to NHL games or not watch they don't have to, it's a free country. Ridiculous argument.

next time you quote me, try not missing the point, AGAIN.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
The longer this goes on the less I want him to play on our team.

Pacioretty took a team-friendly cap hit, and Subban obviously doesn't give a **** about the team. The agent is obviously driving all of this, but it's really not cool.
Not cool is lowballing a player who you plan on building your team around.

We don't know the figures being thrown around here man and to blame PK when we don't know anything doesn't make any sense. If the specualtion is correct and we're offering him somehwere around 3 mil... your anger is misplaced.

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01-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
I wouldn't mind if we trade him. But I want a D in return.

In general, I'm not fond of the egocentric, flashy and cocky players.
Patrick Roy was egocentric, flashy and cocky. Are you happy we got rid of him? And look at the return we got on him... this club can't afford another mistake of that magnitude.

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01-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I haven't used that word at all...that's not what I would say it is.

It's not racism...ignorance? Fear? Out of touch with reality? Sure...but not racism, at least not outwardly.
I know you didn't... I did... and not afraid to use it. Ignorance and fear are pretty much always at the source of racism.

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01-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
tell that to people making 40K a year, paying for his salary trough purchases or tickets, gear, etc...


If he think it it's INSULTING to make 3 Mil a year playing hockey, he can get the **** out then.
Supply and demand my friend. A somebody who worked for a "top company in canada" you should know that a professional athletes bring billions of dollars to their owners and therefore will be compensated much higher than a cashier or somebody who cuts your grass.

This isn't communist russia, everybody doesn't make the same money no matter what they are doing.

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01-24-2013, 11:51 AM
  #297
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I bet there's tons more who don't but just aren't vocal about it like they are.

If you guys start worrying about sideline Mr Joes that call Randy on his am radio show at lunch hour you're going to give yourselves ulcers. What that guy thinks means squat.
I'm not worried about it...I just find it funny when people get so adamant that race has nothing to do with how he's perceived, when it's clearly evident, that it is.

Though again, this has NOTHING to do with where his negotiations stand...but it does have alot to do with some of the comments people have made about him holding out.

Look at the Dave Stubbs article...how anyone can deduce from that article that he's a selfsih person, is COMPLETELY beyond me.

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01-24-2013, 11:51 AM
  #298
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Also I hope Bergeron is not going to continue the Gainey/PG MO of staffing the club with squares and uneventful church-going personality types.

Conform or be shipped out is no way to build a productive organization (in any arena)...

that is all... until I read something that inspires me to flip flop again.

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01-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why the hell would PK sign for 3.25-3.5? He's worth more than that. He's a least a 4.5 million dollar player and it's probably closer to 5. If he was a free agent on the open market asking for 6 per at 7 years we wouldn't even hesistate to make that offer. Even if he is overpaid, that's what he could fetch on the market and we'd do that deal, so would tons of other clubs in the league.

He's an RFA, that give us leverage and we can get a bit of a discount. 4.5... maybe, if PK wanted to be nice. But he's a 5 million dollar player and I think we need to recognize this. We've already had him for extremely cheap for a couple of years. He's earned a pay bump and I think it's silly to have a policy that doesn't allow for exceptions.

PK is an exceptional player and there's no reason not to be willing to be a little flexible here. I understand the bridge contract mentality but if the guy doesn't want it, then pay him 5.5 per year at 7 years. It's comparable to Myers, we get him long term, he's paid a little more than he's worth now and by the end he's a bargain. Just meet in the middle and get it done.

If you think he should accept a 3.25 mil contract you don't understand anything. There's no way he should sign that.
If you think he should get 4.5 a year on a 2 year deal, i think YOU don't understand anything

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01-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
tell that to people making 40K a year, paying for his salary trough purchases or tickets, gear, etc...


If he think it it's INSULTING to make 3 Mil a year playing hockey, he can get the **** out then.
They are not comparable.

I'm sure if someone who was in a 40k a year business saw his peers who were similar to him making 40k a year and was offered 15k, he'd feel pretty insulted, no?

I know at my job, I would feel rather insulted if someone who was less integral to the company was making more to me and when it came time for my salary to be negotiated I was offered a considerable less amount of money than him, I would be none too pleased and I certainly wouldn't be accepting it.

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