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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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01-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #301
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
so what you're saying is you missed the point, I see.
No YOU missed the point. IN NHL negotiations last year's salary has no relevance.

It's about 3 things leverage(UFA vs RFA vs Arbitration) performance(so far) and potential(what you can do going forward).

Depening on the age and status of the player they have varying degrees of importance.

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01-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #302
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by malton View Post
Supply and demand my friend. A somebody who worked for a "top company in canada" you should know that a professional athletes bring billions of dollars to their owners and therefore will be compensated much higher than a cashier or somebody who cuts your grass.

This isn't communist russia, everybody doesn't make the same money no matter what they are doing.
RFA my friend, not UFA.

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01-24-2013, 11:53 AM
  #303
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Please keep race card out of this Subban contract issue. Subban fan boys are getting desperate

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01-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
For. The. LAST.... TIME

There is more to a DEFENSEMAN than how many POINTS he produces.

If you don't KNOW that. Remove yourself from the discussion.
Him playing 25 min per games isnt gonna get him paid much more. Its a bridge contract and he's an RFA. He got almost no leverage (except if the team starts to lose).

So Paciorrety and Price (and all the other players) shouldve had not signed and just make **** worst cuz they didnt want a bridge contract or not making big money right away?Seriously.

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01-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Patrick Roy was egocentric, flashy and cocky. Are you happy we got rid of him? And look at the return we got on him... this club can't afford another mistake of that magnitude.
Patrick Roy? That's debatable.

Besides, it's a matter of degree and context.

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01-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Please keep race card out of this Subban contract issue. Subban fan boys are getting desperate
I'm going to assume you're referring to me...

But i've said SEVERAL times, race has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTRACT IMPASS.

But it DOES have alot to do with how he's perceived and to completely ignore that is just as ignorant if you ask me.

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01-24-2013, 11:55 AM
  #307
malton
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Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Please keep race card out of this Subban contract issue. Subban fan boys are getting desperate
It's called reality.

Ignorance is bliss though

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:55 AM
  #308
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No YOU missed the point. IN NHL negotiations last year's salary has no relevance.

It's about 3 things leverage(UFA vs RFA vs Arbitration) performance(so far) and potential(what you can do going forward).

Depening on the age and status of the player they have varying degrees of importance.
you definitely missed the point as you didnt even notice the guy I replied to a guy who was insinuating that it would be INSULTING for Subban to make 3 Mil a year playing hockey...

So, if you can't get simple sentences such as these, dont quote me, thanks.

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01-24-2013, 11:56 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm not worried about it...I just find it funny when people get so adamant that race has nothing to do with how he's perceived, when it's clearly evident, that it is.

Though again, this has NOTHING to do with where his negotiations stand...but it does have alot to do with some of the comments people have made about him holding out.

Look at the Dave Stubbs article...how anyone can deduce from that article that he's a selfsih person, is COMPLETELY beyond me.
Sure, there are idiots everywhere but like you said it has nothing to do with negotiations. He's not signed yet because MB, a guy who himself was a defenseman for 20 years in the NHL doesn't think he's quite worth what he's asking for yet. What that is I don't know, but I highly doubt it's his skin color. There are going to be bigots and morons and racists everywhere, and they are always louder than the good guys. Sad but true, as they say. I don't think it has any bearing on the actual situation though so I don't see the point of dwelling on it.

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01-24-2013, 11:56 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
RFA my friend, not UFA.
Whats your point? that there are no RFA's that make more then 3x their ELC?
PK don't care whats generous, he wants what he's worth, and given precedents of other high profile RFA's in the last few years, he's going to get it.

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01-24-2013, 11:57 AM
  #311
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I'm amused at seeing some who defended the players saying they deserve every penny now blast subban asking for his due.

Call it what you want but subban IS worth 5 mil or wtv, just...as a UFA. As a RFA you'd hope he'd have some common sense or at least consider a hometown discount.

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01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
The longer this goes on the less I want him to play on our team.

Pacioretty took a team-friendly cap hit, and Subban obviously doesn't give a **** about the team. The agent is obviously driving all of this, but it's really not cool.
When was that?

Pacioretty was affered a 6 year 27 mil deal. MB wants subban to accept 2 years and 5.4 mil.

Pacioretty signed a 2 year deal 18 months ago but it was after he spent half of 10-11 in the AHL.

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01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
So Del Zotto who has the same amount of point in the NHL as Subban took his contract while beeing insulted?

Subban deserve the same amount of money in a bridge contract. Paciorrety went there, Price went there. End of the talk.
Not comparable at all. Price had lost his no.1 spot to Halak when he signed that contract and Pacioretty had proven absolutely nothing in the NHL. Subban has been our most used dman for the past 2 seasons playing 24+mins every night logging 1st PK and PP minutes.

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01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
If you think he should get 4.5 a year on a 2 year deal, i think YOU don't understand anything
So he's a 3.25 million dollar man?



One of us is wrong here. (Hint: its you.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinnHab View Post
Please keep race card out of this Subban contract issue. Subban fan boys are getting desperate
Bringing TO into the discussion is what's desperate. Racist? Sure feels that way. No reason to bring him into this at all.

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01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
Also I hope Bergeron is not going to continue the Gainey/PG MO of staffing the club with squares and uneventful church-going personality types.

Conform or be shipped out is no way to build a productive organization (in any arena)...

that is all... until I read something that inspires me to flip flop again.
I hope so to... but in Subban case, it's affecting, imo, his hockey game. How many times has he jumped on the play when it's not time, or cranked up the big gun on the PP with no result instead of going with the smarter play, etc. When PK plays a more simple game, that's when he's great... but PK is PK and so far, he still is showboating a little too much for my taste. Will he change with time ? I hope so... that's my concern, period. For the rest I like him and his enormous talent.

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01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #316
Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why the hell would PK sign for 3.25-3.5? He's worth more than that. He's a least a 4.5 million dollar player and it's probably closer to 5. If he was a free agent on the open market asking for 6 per at 7 years we wouldn't even hesistate to make that offer. Even if he is overpaid, that's what he could fetch on the market and we'd do that deal, so would tons of other clubs in the league.

He's an RFA, that give us leverage and we can get a bit of a discount. 4.5... maybe, if PK wanted to be nice. But he's a 5 million dollar player and I think we need to recognize this. We've already had him for extremely cheap for a couple of years. He's earned a pay bump and I think it's silly to have a policy that doesn't allow for exceptions.

PK is an exceptional player and there's no reason not to be willing to be a little flexible here. I understand the bridge contract mentality but if the guy doesn't want it, then pay him 5.5 per year at 7 years. It's comparable to Myers, we get him long term, he's paid a little more than he's worth now and by the end he's a bargain. Just meet in the middle and get it done.

If you think he should accept a 3.25 mil contract you don't understand anything. There's no way he should sign that.
I do not know if Subban is asking for the moon nor do I know if Bergevin is low balling him. I do know however that Meehan/Subban (with the final word belonging to Subban) are acting as if the concept of a RFA with no rights to arbitration has been removed from the new CBA.

I really hope Subban is not asking for a lot more than what Price received in the same context; he deserves more but definitely not “a lot more”. I also know that a lot of pro athletes (Pacioretty, Hossa, Brodeur, Jackman...) left money on the table in an effort to help build and play for a contender. Reading the Stubbs interview felt like watching an add commercial so I don’t expect Subban to follow their footsteps.

Again, if Subban inks a one year deal worth 3M$, we will know that Bergevin was low balling him but if he signs a one year deal worth 5M$, we will know that he was asking for the moon. Anything in between and it was only a matter of length.

2 years at 4M$ per season.
Or one year at 4,5M$.
Game on.


PS if the Canadiens give a blank check to Subban, what will happen with Galchenyuk, Beaulieu... when they reach the same stage? Subban is no Crosby so I don’t think Mtl should completely overlook the fact that he is a freakin RFA player with no rights to arbitration... that’s how the CBA works when your name is not Malkin.

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01-24-2013, 11:59 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Sure, there are idiots everywhere but like you said it has nothing to do with negotiations. He's not signed yet because MB, a guy who himself was a defenseman for 20 years in the NHL doesn't think he's quite worth what he's asking for yet. What that is I don't know, but I highly doubt it's his skin color. There are going to be bigots and morons and racists everywhere, and they are always louder than the good guys. Sad but true, as they say. I don't think it has any bearing on the actual situation though so I don't see the point of dwelling on it.
Just having a discussion and all of this started because someone suggested that it has nothing to do with how he's perceived.

I whole heartedly disagree with that and I think it's important to not ignore this because there's a culture in the hockey community that's still very much out of touch. I think it would be great if the sport of hockey actually stepped into today's world, especially with the sport of hockey becoming a more diverse sport. This issue is much deeper than just PK Subban.

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01-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #318
malton
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Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
Him playing 25 min per games isnt gonna get him paid much more. Its a bridge contract and he's an RFA. He got almost no leverage (except if the team starts to lose).

So Paciorrety and Price (and all the other players) shouldve had not signed and just make **** worst cuz they didnt want a bridge contract or not making big money right away?Seriously.
The habs have not had a comparable to subban in years.

Comparing him to price(back up the season before he signed his bridge)

or

Pacioretty who played 34, 52 and 37 games in the 3 seasons before his bridge contract and bounced between the minors and the nhl.

Does that really make sense?

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01-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #319
Jigger77
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When was that?

Pacioretty was affered a 6 year 27 mil deal. MB wants subban to accept 2 years and 5.4 mil.

Pacioretty signed a 2 year deal 18 months ago but it was after he spent half of 10-11 in the AHL.
Do you have a source for that? Not that I don't believe you, I just don't recall seeing actual numbers from a reliable source.

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01-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #320
Blind Gardien
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Seems like we're getting like a page of posts per minute or something now, the Subban Saga is hitting a fever pitch!

It would be kind of nice if this was all connected to like a big alarm in Bergevin's office, maybe a big LED thermometer display or something, graphically showing that Habdom is going bonkers on this. Red alert. Red Alert. Sign Subban. Or the internet will explode.

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01-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
Him playing 25 min per games isnt gonna get him paid much more. Its a bridge contract and he's an RFA. He got almost no leverage (except if the team starts to lose).

So Paciorrety and Price (and all the other players) shouldve had not signed and just make **** worst cuz they didnt want a bridge contract or not making big money right away?Seriously.
The leverage PK has is that he might not be with the team in the foreseeable future. if team doesn't care about that aspect, then he should be traded. Since that doesn't seem to be what the habs want to do, it's pretty obvious PK does have leverage.

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01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
  #322
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Whats your point? that there are no RFA's that make more then 3x their ELC?
PK don't care whats generous, he wants what he's worth, and given precedents of other high profile RFA's in the last few years, he's going to get it.
you noticed I was replying to someone talking about supply and demand right ?

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01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
  #323
the
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
They are not comparable.

I'm sure if someone who was in a 40k a year business saw his peers who were similar to him making 40k a year and was offered 15k, he'd feel pretty insulted, no?

I know at my job, I would feel rather insulted if someone who was less integral to the company was making more to me and when it came time for my salary to be negotiated I was offered a considerable less amount of money than him, I would be none too pleased and I certainly wouldn't be accepting it.
And what if all your peers took that 15k salary when starting out before getting that 40k salary? Is it really that insulting? Seniority is more the issue, he's good but he hasn't been around for years to get the big bucks yet.

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01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
  #324
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I always saw the bridge contract as a necessity for the team, but only when it came to players that have a little more to prove. To me, nearly every player falls into this category except for the ones that greatly exceed expectations or the really high draft picks that meet what is expected of them before the "bridge contract" time comes. Pacioretty would be part of the large group of players that needed to prove more. Price, in my opinion, would have been one of the players exempt from the bridge contract had he performed to the expected level before that. I don't think Subban should be exempt from this treatment. Yes he's a great defenseman but I also think he can be better and has a lot more to show.

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01-24-2013, 12:03 PM
  #325
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Seems like we're getting like a page of posts per minute or something now, the Subban Saga is hitting a fever pitch!

It would be kind of nice if this was all connected to like a big alarm in Bergevin's office, maybe a big LED thermometer display or something, graphically showing that Habdom is going bonkers on this. Red alert. Red Alert. Sign Subban. Or the internet will explode.
What I'm amazed about is people take it so personal.

Subban is entitled to ask for what he wants, Bergevin is allowed to say no. That's all it is.

I like your suggestion though, except Bergevin would resign.

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