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Capitals @ Lightning. 1.19.13. 7PM

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01-24-2013, 11:23 AM
  #726
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Ridley,

I realize you're passionate about wanting real change, and accountability. But there's no need to be sharp with the tongue (I do totally agree with you, though, and think you make great arguments via darn good writing).

The truth is, Forsberg/Wilson are not in the NHL yet, and the difference between the NHL and other leagues is like comparing college football to the NFL.

Good play in any other league is no indicator of the level that player will produce if he makes it into the NHL.

And that's the truth of it.
I get tired of people not reading. If they are sensitive to it, then thats on them. Its not like I called him an imbecile or challenged him to an internet fight.

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01-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #727
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I think too, since 1995, the Wings have been in the SCF 7 or 8 times.
6, 4 wins and 2 losses.

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01-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #728
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Ultimately, the GM is the driver of the franchise.
Only if the owner lets the GM drive the franchise, which Leonsis did not do for a number of seasons in the middle of McPhee's reign and the repercussions of that extended IMO at least a couple of seasons after the last lockout.

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01-24-2013, 12:23 PM
  #729
Ridley Simon
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Only if the owner lets the GM drive the franchise, which Leonsis did not do for a number of seasons in the middle of McPhee's reign and the repercussions of that extended IMO at least a couple of seasons after the last lockout.
Lets look at the records of the 6 longest tenured NHL GM's, shall we?

1. Jim Rutherford, Carolina (19 years). Since 1997 (when GMGM was hired): 3 ECF's, 2 SCF's, 1 CUP

2. Lou Lamoriello, New Jersey (18 years). Since 1997: 4 SCF's, 2 Cups

3. George McPhee, Washington (15 years). Since 1997: 1 SCF

4. Darcy Regier, Buffalo (15 years). Since 1997: 4 ECF's, 1 SCF

5. Ken Holland, Detroit (15 years). Since 1997: 5 WCF's, 4 SCF's, 3 Cups

6. David Poile, Nashville (15 years). Since 1998 (1st year in league): 0 WCF's

Ok, so what does this tell you? Nashville didnt make it first playoffs til 2004.

The rest of the GM's all have minimum 3 Conference Finals. GMGM has 1. You wanted empirical proof of GM's ineptitude, and here you go. Obviously it can be even argued that the ONE ECF the Caps got too, was Poile's team (oddly enough).

So do you still think 3 Conference Finals is too much, Millhaus, for a 15 year reign?

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01-24-2013, 12:58 PM
  #730
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So do you still think 3 Conference Finals is too much, Millhaus, for a 15 year reign?
Not all 15 year reigns are created equally. There are many, many, many details that go into McPhee's 15 years that you choose to ignore for whatever reasons.

I see those 15 years broken up into 5 very different segments each with actual details that helped shape the results.

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01-24-2013, 01:33 PM
  #731
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Obviously it can be even argued that the ONE ECF the Caps got too, was Poile's team (oddly enough).


Poor George

Ted's choice of Cassidy bought George extra years to tinker. But largely tinkering, is all he does.

I am not sure how many losses in a row it will take, if any, before he tries for a significant roster trade.

I kind of hope he goes down swinging and loots the place proper, goes down in a blaze of glory.

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01-24-2013, 01:51 PM
  #732
Capitlols
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Ok so on average make the conference finals every 5 years then?

And does it matter if you are allowed to run the team the way you see fit with an agreed upon budget made well in advance or if the owner interferes and brings in a top player you don't want and gives him a huge contract and then when the fans don't support the team the way he would like makes a knee jerk reaction and slashes the budget putting you in an almost impossible position?
Not so much make it once every five years, but it's not unreasonable to make multiple ecf appearences when given a generational talent. Pitt complemented their stars with the right pieces, likewise for Tampa and their hampered with a budget. I think a couple ecfs could have been made with the correct and/or more aggressive moves during OV's tenure. Is that a unreasonable view?

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01-24-2013, 02:00 PM
  #733
brs03
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Not so much make it once every five years, but it's not unreasonable to make multiple ecf appearences when given a generational talent. Pitt complemented their stars with the right pieces, likewise for Tampa and their hampered with a budget. I think a couple ecfs could have been made with the correct and/or more aggressive moves during OV's tenure. Is that a unreasonable view?
By the same token, they were surprisingly close to the ECF in both 08-09 and 11-12 (not that they particularly deserved to be in either case, but go with it). Would a few random plays going differently in each case have suddenly validated GMGM's moves over that time?

It's reasonable to say that GMGM should have made better moves (to take advantage of Ovi's best years or whatever other context you want to put them in). It's unreasonable to say that not making the ECF is the problem. The problem is whether or not he built a team that was good enough, not whether they got far enough. I know the result is what we as fans want to see, but it's the construction (all facets of it, so coaching decisions come into play as well) that he has control over.

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01-24-2013, 02:13 PM
  #734
Capitlols
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By the same token, they were surprisingly close to the ECF in both 08-09 and 11-12 (not that they particularly deserved to be in either case, but go with it). Would a few random plays going differently in each case have suddenly validated GMGM's moves over that time?

It's reasonable to say that GMGM should have made better moves (to take advantage of Ovi's best years or whatever other context you want to put them in). It's unreasonable to say that not making the ECF is the problem. The problem is whether or not he built a team that was good enough, not whether they got far enough. I know the result is what we as fans want to see, but it's the construction (all facets of it, so coaching decisions come into play as well) that he has control over.
I just disagree that the ecf is not the problem, it is. It would show progress and validate the conservative approach gmgm has held. Instead this team has taken a step back, three coaches in less than two years, still haven't built a competent D, and still believes in this core. He seems to be steadfast in being patient, not realizing failure.

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01-24-2013, 02:15 PM
  #735
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6, 4 wins and 2 losses.
Thank you for looking it up...I always rely on memory. 6 times.... not bad.

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01-24-2013, 02:18 PM
  #736
Stewie G
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By the same token, they were surprisingly close to the ECF in both 08-09 and 11-12 (not that they particularly deserved to be in either case, but go with it). Would a few random plays going differently in each case have suddenly validated GMGM's moves over that time?

It's reasonable to say that GMGM should have made better moves (to take advantage of Ovi's best years or whatever other context you want to put them in). It's unreasonable to say that not making the ECF is the problem. The problem is whether or not he built a team that was good enough, not whether they got far enough. I know the result is what we as fans want to see, but it's the construction (all facets of it, so coaching decisions come into play as well) that he has control over.
It's like you're in my brain.

To try to put it a different way. Let's say you're putting together a meeting. You could do everything right as a planner (get a good location, line up all the right people, set up all the A/V crap, etc.) but the meeting might not be a success for whatever reason (presenter gets sick the day of/snow storm/power failure/etc.). The blame for that shouldn't fall on the meeting planner.

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01-24-2013, 02:33 PM
  #737
BTCG
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
It's like you're in my brain.

To try to put it a different way. Let's say you're putting together a meeting. You could do everything right as a planner (get a good location, line up all the right people, set up all the A/V crap, etc.) but the meeting might not be a success for whatever reason (presenter gets sick the day of/snow storm/power failure/etc.). The blame for that shouldn't fall on the meeting planner.
Agreed.... until we start to see that these same factors are killing the meeting most or every year.

And even if a good portion of the failure is in bad luck, I still say... at a certain point, you've gotta find a luckier planner.

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01-24-2013, 02:36 PM
  #738
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Jeez the game was so two days ago.

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