Why does it have to be so black and white with you guys? It's either Subban is a greedy dick who only cares about himself OR Bergevin is a stubborn cheap-ass who'll ruin the future of our team. I'm sure it's MUCH more complicated than that.
__________________
"Ah ha Lucic a employé le genou cassant la technique, 911 ! ! !" -A Bruins fan
The real kicker is that he seems to think we'd actually have better chance of winning the cup with McDonaugh as 1st dman rather than having Markov.
I thought he was just saying that we squandered so many players and that if we have kept them, we wouldn't have much more depth in D. As in, Markov, McDonaugh and Subban all playing for the Habs... Course I could be wrong here...
What I think should happen is that both sides give and take...
If the Habs are dead set on a 2 yr deal...that's fine, but 2.75M for what is your best dman is an insult. At least come in at 4M, at the very least.
As for Subban...he's going to have to wrap his head around the idea that he's going to have to sign a bridge deal if he wants to stay in Montreal. Not necessarily because it's fair, but because that's how the Habs have operated as a business. He'll have to trust that in 2 years time, they'll put their money where there mouth was 2 years prior.
Why does it have to be so black and white with you guys? It's either Subban is a greedy dick who cares about himself OR Bergevin is a stubborn cheap-ass who'll ruin the future of our team. I'm sure it's MUCH more complicated than that.
Hey, this is Habsland. There is no such thing as grey areas. The only thing that exists is one extreme or the other. Everything else is imaginary You know, just like Eller is going to be a super star or a total failure
What I think should happen is that both sides give and take...
If the Habs are dead set on a 2 yr deal...that's fine, but 2.75M for what is your best dman is an insult. At least come in at 4M, at the very least.
As for Subban...he's going to have to wrap his head around the idea that he's going to have to sign a bridge deal if he wants to stay in Montreal. Not necessarily because it's fair, but because that's how the Habs have operated as a business. He'll have to trust that in 2 years time, they'll put their money where there mouth was 2 years prior.
I dont disagree with you but the fact your taking such a hard stance when nobody actually knows the #'s bugs me, no one knows what the offer is, so lets all reserve judgement till we hear from PK - Don or Bergevin on actual figures.
Do you think Gorges would have stayed had the Habs not offered him what he signed for? He signed a very rich contract for a player of his talent, 3.9M for a player that was never drafted
But do you think he signs that contract if the Habs would of offered him 2.5M?
I mean, sure...players take hometown discounts, but if you're not near what they think they're worth. I'm not convinced they'll be so inclined to take that discount.
Again...2.75M for Subban is way more than a hometown discount....
What are you talking about ?
I was refering to the 1 year contract he signed during the summer... he played well and then was rewarded with a big long-term contract he wished for during the season.
You are missing the point. Hockey players, like everyone else, want to get paid. Subban is hardly the first.
Hell, Dryden was in the same boat.
So you think Bergevin isn't willing to pay him? Really? I have a hard time believing that there is a lowballing going on here. From everything I see, it looks like PK is jumping the gun. He just isn't there yet. If he were a legit #1, you wouldn't see so many fans saying that he isn't one yet. You wouldn't see our GM hesitating to lock him up longterm. We'd overrate him to being the best of the best in that case. Now we're reaching to put him into classes with dmen who are simply better players than he is.
So you think Bergevin isn't willing to pay him? Really? I have a hard time believing that there is a lowballing going on here. From everything I see, it looks like PK is jumping the gun. He just isn't there yet. If he were a legit #1, you wouldn't see so many fans saying that he isn't one yet. You wouldn't see our GM hesitating to lock him up longterm. We'd overrate him to being the best of the best in that case. Now we're reaching to put him into classes with dmen who are simply better players than he is.
I believe MacKenzie had mentionned 2x$2.75, which seems quite low. However I don't actually know. But the point remains that fair market value existed back then, and players took it seriously as well.
The Dryden example is a bit of social commentary as well, since no one vilifies Dryden for what he did. There's a ton of overreacting about what Subban is doing, so the juxtaposition is legitimate IMO.
even if true, fact that it's public, its damage control by Meehan.
there is no damage control....
I said last night , when Bob Mac said trade, i said no way/Pk will be in the lineup on or before Jan 29th....watch the ovation PK gets from the fans,get ready for a real long PK PK PK PK ....
Anyways, Habs will need to make a trade when Subban is back....there is no room for a dman ...Markov safe, PK safe,,,JG safe......Boullion is safe....so someone is gone
I dont disagree with you but the fact your taking such a hard stance when nobody actually knows the #'s bugs me, no one knows what the offer is, so lets all reserve judgement till we hear from PK - Don or Bergevin on actual figures.
I think the figures matter little in this argument...it's simply the concept of the 'bridge' vs otherwise. Personally I agree with signing a bridge because I see it as win win for the habs. Sign him to a bridge, then if he goes out and does what most people here expect him to do the decision to re-sign him again is pretty much made for you. If he becomes a Norris trophy candidate (as some are willing to predict here) then he'll get his cash.
Basically it's risk mitigation 101 from the habs point of view.
Why does it have to be so black and white with you guys? It's either Subban is a greedy dick who cares about himself OR Bergevin is a stubborn cheap-ass who'll ruin the future of our team. I'm sure it's MUCH more complicated than that.
The fact that Benn and O'Reilly are also holding out makes me think that this is a bigger issue, that it's a battle over the value of 2nd contracts for good players. I think it's also worth mentioning that these players were among the biggest losers in the new CBA - they get the contract restrictions and the lower % of HRR, but none of the make-whole cash. Maybe there's some justifiable anger among these players, the sense that they have to look out for themselves.
Chris Chelios, Eric Desjardins, Andrei Markov, Ryan McDonagh, and PK Subban.
The only homegrown #1 dman we have kept is Andrei Markov, and he's the one that in hindsight, we never had any chance to win a cup with.
lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperMonkey
I thought he was just saying that we squandered so many players and that if we have kept them, we wouldn't have much more depth in D. As in, Markov, McDonaugh and Subban all playing for the Habs... Course I could be wrong here...
You see, the problem here is that even Lidstrom wouldn't have brought us a cup. It's a team sport and Markov never had much of a good team to play with.
I said last night , when Bob Mac said trade, i said no way/Pk will be in the lineup on or before Jan 29th....watch the ovation PK gets from the fans,get ready for a real long PK PK PK PK ....
Anyways, Habs will need to make a trade when Subban is back....there is no room for as dman ...
No damage control? Look at the posts regarding the tweet.
"Fist pump" , "Right step towards teamsnanship" etc. On the day TSN publishes a "Hey fans what you think?" and HFboards and RDS is filled with anti subban, "he s not a team player" opinions.
Damage control, and effective looking at some posts here.
No one really believes the conventional medias nowadays, comparatively to social media, which people seem to take with extreme emotional implications (Like the players tweets during lock out, price tweet, kane tweet). Smart business men know this, and will exploit it to manipulate public opinion. Whether the product is a hockey player, or just some general public stigma that 'needs' to be changed, in order to make bank.
I believe MacKenzie had mentionned 2x$2.75, which seems quite low. However I don't actually know. But the point remains that fair market value existed back then, and players took it seriously as well.
Fair enough, 2.75 would be way too low. 3.75 to 4.25 ideal.
I've seen every single shift PK has ever played for the Habs, those stats are meaningless to me. My opinion is formulated first and foremost through game film.
The fact that Benn and O'Reilly are also holding out makes me think that this is a bigger issue, that it's a battle over the value of 2nd contracts for good players. I think it's also worth mentioning that these players were among the biggest losers in the new CBA - they get the contract restrictions and the lower % of HRR, but none of the make-whole cash. Maybe there's some justifiable anger among these players, the sense that they have to look out for themselves.
The NHLPA and the player agents would have (at least if they were competent) told the players this was a possibility and that it might be in their best interest to sign before the lockout instead of rolling the dice. Dozens of other players did just that.
How is that a meaningful step? He didn't say he'd lower his demands to help settle things quickly... He just told his agent to find a solution.
Chaumont is producing an entire article apparently, but yeah it doesn't mean Subban is going to lay over or anything, just that he wants to get things moving.
Encouraging, but not necessarily a good will gesture by PK or an indication that he'll make a concession.
Jesus....I am using so many of the same catchwords as I did during hte lockout....constant déja-vu's!
even if true, fact that it's public, its damage control by Meehan.
Meehan has no interest in doing damage control for the Canadiens. Public perception of PK during this hold-out has no bearing on the money he'll get from the team.
For that reason, I'll choose to believe that it's true, and that it's good news.
The fact that Benn and O'Reilly are also holding out makes me think that this is a bigger issue, that it's a battle over the value of 2nd contracts for good players. I think it's also worth mentioning that these players were among the biggest losers in the new CBA - they get the contract restrictions and the lower % of HRR, but none of the make-whole cash. Maybe there's some justifiable anger among these players, the sense that they have to look out for themselves.
You know, just like Eller is going to be a super star or a total failure 
