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P.K. Subban Thread - Edition 6.0 - #BlameSubban

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01-24-2013, 04:47 PM
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
P.K. wants a long-term deal at big dollars.

Bergevin has held firm on it being a 2 year deal on reportedly somewhere around 3 M per season.

There have been rumblings in the last 24 hours that P.K. would be OK with signing 2 years, if he gets paid a lot of money.
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?

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01-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
I don't know how people can think Subban only deserves 2.75 mil when guys like Fowler and Hedmen both signed a 5yr/20mil deal. And PK is better than both of them so 4.5 would be a very fair price for 2 years. Then again PK wants more so we have to buy UFA years and the price rises. Not like his demands are ridiculous.
I think 2.75 is ridiculous, 4.5 is more than fair.

Than being said, I don't like comparisons because it doesn't mean because other teams are stupid that we should use them for comparisons. Case in point, Taylor Hall.

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01-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #753
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I don't know how people can think Subban only deserves 2.75 mil when guys like Fowler and Hedmen both signed a 5yr/20mil deal. And PK is better than both of them so 4.5 would be a very fair price for 2 years. Then again PK wants more so we have to buy UFA years and the price rises. Not like his demands are ridiculous.
I'd love to sign PK at 5 years for $4mil/year. But I suspect that his asking price for that term would be more. I agree that 2 years @4.5mil is fair for both sides.

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01-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #754
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The question is, was he a #1 the last 2 years or just towards the end?

That's my issue. He deserves more money than the average joe and could argue term too. I just find it weird to say he's been a #1 for 2 years or whatever. He has reached that point for a limited period. He's ranged from top 4 to #1 in last 2 years. I feel he should be paid as such.
well the coaching staff seemed to have thought he was a #1 dman considering the amount of minutes he's played, especially last year.

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01-24-2013, 04:49 PM
  #755
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Where did you hear this?
Dreger this morning on TSN 690.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkdanielkli View Post
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?
Because Pacioretty and Price went through a process: Finish your 1st (entry-level) contract. Then sign for 2 years. Then you sign the big deal. He reportedly feels Subban should go through the same path.

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01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by dkdanielkli View Post
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?
Oh man... convoluted question.

Some say it's because Subban hasn't proven to be totally reliable just yet.
Some say it's because Bergevin sticks to a bridge-contract policy..

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01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #757
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The reason a lot of players like Jonathan Toews, Vincent Lecavalier, and Sidney Crosby fail to reach 70 points is not due to the fact that they're not elite.
Lecavalier is no longer elite anyway.

As for Crosby and Toews. Both were injured at some point. They were at reasonable PPGs to hit 70 points but didn't. I happen to count injury status as a downside too but can respect they could will be back to form as soon as this year.

If you wanna bring up defensive play and all that, sure. Just at a certain point whats the criteria? You said 70 points, you never said if gally would have strong or weak defensive play. I just assumed it would be respectable or average.

FWIW, I don't consider any player in last years 70+ points club to be weak defensively. Good players.

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01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by dkdanielkli View Post
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?
Bergevin has to manage a budget. Cap next year will be 64 million. It's gonna be very tight even if he succeed to get rid of Kaberle's contract.

A bridge contract at 3,5-4 million per season to PK makes lots of sense. In a couple of years, Bergevin will be able to open the bank for him and give him a fat-long contract.

PK has also to prove in the meantime that he's not just a showboat. That he can mature and become more discipline as well as a respected teamate.

And Bergevin won't give him a 4 year deal because that would lead PK to total UFA status in 2017.

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01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #759
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I'd love to sign PK at 5 years for $4mil/year. But I suspect that his asking price for that term would be more. I agree that 2 years @4.5mil is fair for both sides.
Agreed, and IMO, when you start off by offering PK a 2yr 2.75M...you're just galvanising him even more to inflate his own value.

I compare it to the initial offer the owners gave the players back in September...we now know that offer was a joke and just served to strengthen the players will.

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01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by dkdanielkli View Post
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?
It's normal for younger players to get that "bridge" contract before they get the big money. Sort of like "you've showed me you deserved more than your entry contract money, now show me what you deserve for long term" kind of deal. Price, Gorges, Patches, and lots more did it before.

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01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by dkdanielkli View Post
Thanks for the answer.
Why wouldn't Bergevin sign him for a long term contract? Isn't PK a player we would like to keep for as long as possible ?
Cause they want to gauge what he's really worth before making a commitement. If he wants a long-term deal at 3.5 per well sure they'll agree to it cause he's at least worth that. But at 6 per? It's throwing money away when it could be used elsewhere.

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01-24-2013, 04:53 PM
  #762
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well the coaching staff seemed to have thought he was a #1 dman considering the amount of minutes he's played, especially last year.
And he finished last in east. Granted not his fault but wasn't goalie's fault either. At a certain point, a lot of players were overvalued, forwards and D included.

They played him a lot because alternative was who? Kaberle? Diaz? Weber?

Gorges already played top pairing D minutes so not like we could give Subban's minutes to him.

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01-24-2013, 04:54 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
I'd love to sign PK at 5 years for $4mil/year. But I suspect that his asking price for that term would be more. I agree that 2 years @4.5mil is fair for both sides.
I might be dumb but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a bridge contract? I'd be pissed if we gave him 4.5 per year and only got 2 years. That would be horrible.

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01-24-2013, 04:55 PM
  #764
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I might be dumb but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a bridge contract? I'd be pissed if we gave him 4.5 per year and only got 2 years. That would be horrible.
Better outcome than continuing this horrific standoff that benefits no one.

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01-24-2013, 04:55 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Bergevin has to manage a budget. Cap next year will be 64 million. It's gonna be very tight even if he succeed to get rid of Kaberle's contract.

A bridge contract at 3,5-4 million per season to PK makes lots of sense. In a couple of years, Bergevin will be able to open the bank for him and give him a fat-long contract.
PK has also to prove in the meantime that he's not just a showboat. That he can mature and become more discipline as well as a respected teamate.
I can almost guarantee that 2 years from, short of winning a Norris Trophy and Hart nomination...the same fans imploring PK to sign any bridge deal presented to him, will be the same fans complaining about the big long term contract he'll eventually sign

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01-24-2013, 04:55 PM
  #766
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I might be dumb but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a bridge contract? I'd be pissed if we gave him 4.5 per year and only got 2 years. That would be horrible.
In which way ?

He won't be UFA in 2 years. But at that point Bergevin will know the real value of PK and offer him a long substantial deal.

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01-24-2013, 04:57 PM
  #767
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I can almost guarantee that 2 years from, short of winning a Norris Trophy and Hart nomination...the same fans imploring PK to sign any bridge deal presented to him, will be the same fans complaining about the big long term contract he'll eventually sign
I feel PK won't mature with a long term deal. That's my issue.

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01-24-2013, 04:58 PM
  #768
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PK will be playing by next weekend !!!

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01-24-2013, 04:58 PM
  #769
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I can almost guarantee that 2 years from, short of winning a Norris Trophy and Hart nomination...the same fans imploring PK to sign any bridge deal presented to him, will be the same fans complaining about the big long term contract he'll eventually sign
If he plays as well and work on his few flaws and help this team to win, I don't see any problem.

If Gorges can get 3,9 for 5 years, PK can certainly get 5,5-6 for 6 or 7 years, and maybe more. But he has to mature as an individual as well as a hockey player.

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01-24-2013, 04:58 PM
  #770
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It's normal for younger players to get that "bridge" contract before they get the big money. Sort of like "you've showed me you deserved more than your entry contract money, now show me what you deserve for long term" kind of deal. Price, Gorges, Patches, and lots more did it before.
Equal =/= Fair

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01-24-2013, 04:59 PM
  #771
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My post was implying that he already is one, and would be one on 20 other teams too.
Crazy.
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On average, Habs dmen took more penalties than they drew, probably the nature of the position and the system.
Or the lack of Markov

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01-24-2013, 05:00 PM
  #772
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I might be dumb but doesn't that defeat the purpose of a bridge contract? I'd be pissed if we gave him 4.5 per year and only got 2 years. That would be horrible.
Honest question: what do you think would be fair value for PK on a 2 year deal?

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01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
  #773
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In which way ?

He won't be UFA in 2 years. But at that point Bergevin will know the real value of PK and offer him a long substantial deal.
I'd rather sign him to a long term deal at 6 million if his bridge contract is at 4.5. Does that mean he'll try and go for 8 per after 2 years? 3.25-3.5

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01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
And he finished last in east. Granted not his fault but wasn't goalie's fault either. At a certain point, a lot of players were overvalued, forwards and D included.

They played him a lot because alternative was who? Kaberle? Diaz? Weber?

Gorges already played top pairing D minutes so not like we could give Subban's minutes to him.
Not sure how that changes what I said...is it his fault management built a defense squad that was so inept, it had it's 22yr old dman playing the toughest minutes and getting the toughest assignments?

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01-24-2013, 05:02 PM
  #775
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Imagine ladies and gentleman, the rest of the season with PK, Marky, Diaz, etc...

It's going to be a good season.

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