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Ryan O'Reilly's KHL contract terminated

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Old
01-24-2013, 04:57 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
Would you do: O'Reilly + Elliot + 3rd for Gardiner + Biggs and a 1rst

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01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Gardiner is damaged goods so no.
One concussion makes you damaged goods?

So I guess that means Crosby, Giroux, Letang, Miller, Backstrom, and Perron are damaged goods.

Pens, I'll give you a 5th for Crosby and Letang. They're damaged goods afterall.

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01-24-2013, 05:02 PM
  #103
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hahaahahahahahha your kidding right??
Talk too me. Your answer means absolutly nothing.

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01-24-2013, 05:06 PM
  #104
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Even if he peaks as "just a top 10 defenseman" he holds more value to a franchise then a 1b/2a center, with a 1st line ceiling. The only way the Avs wouldn't add is if Duchene was to become, for certain, a top 10 center, which is possible, but much less likely than OEL reaching his potential. I think you may have gotten stuck on the amount of +++++ I used, it was more to signify that you would have to add, to make the values even out. I wasn't trying to say you would have to add 3-4 more pieces.

As far as Jones is concerned, I wait to form an opinion once he finally reaches the NHL. EJ had the same level of hype surrounding him when the Blues picked him, and he has yet to live up to that PERCIEVED level. I think EJ is a solid #1 and a great #2, but not the "end all be all" he was touted when he was drafted. And please, I have followed EJ since he was drafted with STL, I know all about his trails and tribulations, Im not trying to turn this discussion into an EJ pissing match.
EJ is only 24, its going to be another 3-4 years before he hits his prime. Defense don't his their prime until Mid-late 20's.

Look at Pronger and Chara, who are 2 very comparable players to EJ. Not that EJ is anything close to either of them, but similar size big hitters and extremely good Defensively with some offense as well. Chara and Pronger were both in the league for a solid 4-5 years before they became what they are/were. EJ still has a tonne of time to develop.

And yes OEL has developed a lot already, but he also probably wont develop too much further, as has been said he's already a good #1 palying 25 mins a night. He really cant get a whole lot better.

I also don't see how Duchene is less likely to become a Top 10 Center then OEL is to become a Top 10 Dman, Duchene has just as much of a chance as OEL, 1 off year that was injury plagued doesn't change the amount of potential Duchene has. I wouldn't trade Duchene for OEL at this point, like wise Yotes fans wouldn't trade OEL for Duchene.

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01-24-2013, 05:08 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
Would you do: O'Reilly + Elliot + 3rd for Gardiner + Biggs and a 1rst
Asbolsutly horrible for the Avs. Wouldn't more Oreilly alone for that package. And Elliott is significantly more then a throw in.

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01-24-2013, 05:08 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ruki View Post
One concussion makes you damaged goods?

So I guess that means Crosby, Giroux, Letang, Miller, Backstrom, and Perron are damaged goods.

Pens, I'll give you a 5th for Crosby and Letang. They're damaged goods afterall.
Mueller, Wilson... not everyone recovers the same way.

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01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
  #107
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Talk too me. Your answer means absolutly nothing.
It means your proposal is a joke.

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01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
  #108
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Mueller, Wilson... not everyone recovers the same way.
That is true, yes. But to say he's damaged goods after one game back is asinine.

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01-24-2013, 05:11 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
As with O'Reilly.
Not really. Bolland started 32% of his shifts in the offensive zone for the Hawks last 5on5, which is by far the lowest amongst his team. The Avs used Jay McClement in a similar capacity while ROR got more opportunities for scoring. McClement had 34% of starts in offensive zone while ROR had 50%. HUGE difference.

Bolland is bordering on superstar status.

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01-24-2013, 05:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
Mueller, Wilson... not everyone recovers the same way.
Those guys were out for a year.... Gardiner missed 4 weeks which was deemed more a neck (whiplash) injury. Matters not. Gardiner won't be going anywhere.

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01-24-2013, 05:32 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Those guys were out for a year.... Gardiner missed 4 weeks which was deemed more a neck (whiplash) injury. Matters not. Gardiner won't be going anywhere.
Great. You guys keep Gardiner. If he costs one of our centers, we don't want him.

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01-24-2013, 05:37 PM
  #112
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I actually didn't see the 1st when I posted. But I would not trade either Yandle or Hanzal for ROR + a throw in like Sgarbossa. Not a bad prospect, but not super noteworthy in value. At least not enough to where you can't say no. It's not that ROR is bad, or isn't great defensively. He is. But Hanzal is required to make the playoffs in the Pacific. He is the key to the Coyotes playing Dave Tippett style hockey. Not only that, he is signed to a great contract and loves it in Phoenix. He also is arguably responsible for Radim Vrbata being a useful player. Take him out and there are consequences.

Yandle is just flat out worth more.
O'Reilly is significantly better than Hanzal, so hopefully you're speaking from your heart rather than your head when you wouldn't move him for O'Reilly.

Avs wouldn't move O'Reilly for less than full value, so teams expecting a discount need not apply. A five mil offersheet beyond five years would start at first, second, third territory unless rfa rules dropped the years averaged since the cba.

O'Reilly and Barrie for Yandle is about where we'd stand. Selke caliber center with 65-70 point upside that would probably center your top line and do well with it in Tippet's system. Barrie is right around Runblad's potential but ahead of him defensively at this point.

No one says to take it though, I'd rather keep O'Reilly than make that deal.

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Old
01-24-2013, 05:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
EJ is about to enter what are supposed to be his peak years, but he is still miles away from his draft billing. Gormley at this point certainly has a higher ceiling than him now. Even though Gormley is not a sure thing at this point, he's about as good a D with potential as you can hope for at this point, without trying to sell the farm and go for someone like Weber/Doughty/Pietrangelo/Karlsson. His value to ROR is pretty close....

How about Hanzal + Klesla For RoR + 3rd; might be beneficial for both sides?
That is the most hilarious statement in this thread.

Yeah, so Gormley, who put up good points in junior being a solid, two-way d-man, is struggling to do the same at the AHL level.

2012-13 Portland Pirates AHL 37gp 4g 9a 13pts 22pim -5+/-

Apart from your own personal opinion, exactly WHAT is pointing to this player being better than EJ at this point and time? His draft position??

Clearly, the value of Ryan O'Reilly, a player that has shown the ability to PLAY IN THE NHL since the age of 18 and EXCEL is close to the value of a guy that has never played ONE game in the league.

This is like an Avs fan trying to tell you that Tyson Barrie has close to the same value as Martin Hanzal or Mikkel Boedker.

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01-24-2013, 05:49 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
EJ is about to enter what are supposed to be his peak years, but he is still miles away from his draft billing. Gormley at this point certainly has a higher ceiling than him now. Even though Gormley is not a sure thing at this point, he's about as good a D with potential as you can hope for at this point, without trying to sell the farm and go for someone like Weber/Doughty/Pietrangelo/Karlsson. His value to ROR is pretty close....

How about Hanzal + Klesla For RoR + 3rd; might be beneficial for both sides?
Yes...Clearly Gormley who has yet to even play a game in the NHL has higher potential than EJ. What are you basing this off of? All the games you've watched of Gormely and EJ, and have reached this decision after carefully evaluating them both? Impressive. Watching Avs games, Coyotes games, and Portland Pirates games? Or are you just making things up with absolutely nothing to back it up. I'll go with the latter.



Yes, a defensman who has done absolutely nothing in the NHL holds around the same value that a 21 year old forward who is great defensively coming of a 55 point season. Literally the same!!



And yeah...that deal is not beneficial to the Avs. I would say ROR is just as good defensively as Hanzal, and he is only 21. Not to mention his career high is 20 points higher than Hanzal's. He is just as good and better now, and has way more potential. Does not even get a consideration.

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01-24-2013, 06:02 PM
  #115
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O'Reilly is significantly better than Hanzal,
Not in Hanzal's current role, which is absolutely crucial to the Coyotes and the reason they've made the playoffs in consecutive years. You can't coach 6'6. Considering the Avs already have 2 top 6 centers, they should absolutely be interested in a Hanzal for ROR swap. The Coyotes wouldn't be, however, because of how crucial he is. He is a stat monster, apart from points:

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During his rookie year, Hanzal was thrown to the wolves at even strength, facing the 37th toughest CorsiRelQoC score in the entire league. He hasn't slowed down since, routinely showing up on the list of players who face the league's elite night-in and night-out. His Balanced Corsi scores show that he is performing well above his expectation pushing the play forward in these situations, handling extremely tough assignments with relative ease. Though his Power Play stats have been less than impressive, Phoenix has never ranked above 19th in SF/60 on the PP during Hanzal's time in the desert. Regardless, his excellent play at even strength means that Phoenix will have a young and versatile tough-minutes forward locked up no matter where the franchise finds itself at the expiration of the contract.
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He’s 23 years-old and his career high in three seasons is a 27-point rookie effort. Nothing about Hanzal’s counting numbers stand-out. In fact, they’re completely underwhelming.
Until one considers the fact that he’s been the Coyotes number one checking option for two straight years. Hanzal has frequently seen the toughest match-ups on a team lacking other elite options since he was a sophomore and he’s somehow managed to keep his head above water. The towering 6’6″ center was the lone bright spot under Wayne Gretzky in 2008-09: he faced the big boys, started in his own zone about 62% of the time and still sported one of the best possession rates on the team (-5.76/60 corsi).
I know it's hard to explain Hanzal's value in normal HF terms (points, contract, intangibles) but he is very, very valuable and the Avs would be silly to not want him. Having him gives one of your top 2 lines a guaranteed mismatch against lesser competition.

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01-24-2013, 06:44 PM
  #116
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Fans of other teams:

Can your team offer O Reilly a #1 or #2 centre position and afford to pay him 5M/year?
Those are supposedly the things he wants and is willing to wait to get.

I am of the opinion that the teams who can offer him his two desires are slim. And when you have few buyers you have to lower your selling price.

I think a downgraded roster player and a first pick gets it done. A prospect with big time impact potential is a pipe dream.

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01-24-2013, 07:06 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
Fans of other teams:

Can your team offer O Reilly a #1 or #2 centre position and afford to pay him 5M/year?
Those are supposedly the things he wants and is willing to wait to get.

I am of the opinion that the teams who can offer him his two desires are slim. And when you have few buyers you have to lower your selling price.

I think a downgraded roster player and a first pick gets it done. A prospect with big time impact potential is a pipe dream.
oilers can!
except gagner is heading to colorado ++

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01-24-2013, 07:23 PM
  #118
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I wouldn't like an O'Reilly for Hanzal deal either. Too lateral and it bails out the Avs, while RO'R is still unsigned.

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01-24-2013, 07:43 PM
  #119
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That is the most hilarious statement in this thread.

Yeah, so Gormley, who put up good points in junior being a solid, two-way d-man, is struggling to do the same at the AHL level.

2012-13 Portland Pirates AHL 37gp 4g 9a 13pts 22pim -5+/-

Apart from your own personal opinion, exactly WHAT is pointing to this player being better than EJ at this point and time? His draft position??

Clearly, the value of Ryan O'Reilly, a player that has shown the ability to PLAY IN THE NHL since the age of 18 and EXCEL is close to the value of a guy that has never played ONE game in the league.

This is like an Avs fan trying to tell you that Tyson Barrie has close to the same value as Martin Hanzal or Mikkel Boedker.
Dude, supposedly "comparable" players to EJ (according to Avs fans, not me), like Pronger or Chara, are already Norris candidates at this stage of their career (mid 20s). Pronger would have won the MVP the next season, you think EJ is going to be in sniffing distance of the Hart next year, are some avs fans really that delusional???

EJ is an above average D, probably a #3 on a contender, could probably fill in as a #1 on a bottom 25% D-corps of the league. You really think that you can be a contender with EJ as your #1 D, seriously, think about what you are saying. EJ's career high was 39 points, which was 3 years ago, and hasn't since come close. His career +/- high is a grand total of "1", and more often than not in the negative. You seriously think that he can go head to head with the likes of Chara and Weber. Surpassing EJ up in the depth chart is not that difficult of a feat, for an elite D prospect. The D that you traded away for him, Shattenkirk, is actually a signficantly more accomplished player at this point in time, despite being in the league far fewer years; EJ has been in the league since 18, and his stats has hardly improved at all from his rookie year (33 pts, -9). He is a resounding and abject failure, if you are measuring him according to the #1 overall billing that he was drafted at.

Gormley is already probably the best D that's not playing in the NHL right now, and is a complete player. He easily has the potential to be a all around #2 D on a contender eventually. It's very likely that he will become a top 15 D in the NHL in the next 2/3 years, given the right circumstances (where he is given the right role, but not too much pressure).

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01-24-2013, 07:46 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Dude, supposedly "comparable" players to EJ (according to Avs fans, not me), like Pronger or Chara, are already Norris candidates at this stage of their career (mid 20s). Pronger would have won the MVP the next season, you think EJ is going to be in sniffing distance of the Hart next year, are some avs fans really that delusional???

EJ is an above average D, probably a #3 on a contender, could probably fill in as a #1 on a bottom 25% D-corps of the league. You really think that you can be a contender with EJ as your #1 D, seriously, think about what you are saying. EJ's career high was 39 points, which was 3 years ago, and hasn't since come close. His career +/- high is a grand total of "1", and more often than not in the negative. You seriously think that he can go head to head with the likes of Chara and Weber. Surpassing EJ up in the depth chart is not that difficult of a feat, for an elite D prospect. The D that you traded away for him, Shattenkirk, is actually a signficantly more accomplished player at this point in time, despite being in the league far fewer years; EJ has been in the league since 18, and his stats has hardly improved at all from his rookie year (33 pts, -9). He is a resounding and abject failure, if you are measuring him according to the #1 overall billing that he was drafted at.

Gormley is already probably the best D that's not playing in the NHL right now, and is a complete player. He easily has the potential to be a all around #2 D on a contender eventually. It's very likely that he will become a top 15 D in the NHL in the next 2/3 years, given the right circumstances (where he is given the right role, but not too much pressure).



You are hilarious. Bashing a proven NHL dman who is the only thing keeping the Avs defense from being clearly the worst group in the league and in the next sentence you hype up a prospect who has shown nothing at all in the NHL to be a very likely top 15 dman.

Keep it up dude. You are golden!

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01-24-2013, 07:49 PM
  #121
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Gardiner is damaged goods so no.



Avs would match it, but the Leafs couldn't offer him that anyway.



His agent also said the 2 year/5 year deals where fake also.
Gardiner has an injury, yes. That doesn't mean he's damaged goods. If anything, your golden boy Duchene is damaged goods, and then some.

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01-24-2013, 07:50 PM
  #122
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Dude, supposedly "comparable" players to EJ (according to Avs fans, not me), like Pronger or Chara, are already Norris candidates at this stage of their career (mid 20s). Pronger would have won the MVP the next season, you think EJ is going to be in sniffing distance of the Hart next year, are some avs fans really that delusional???

EJ is an above average D, probably a #3 on a contender, could probably fill in as a #1 on a bottom 25% D-corps of the league. You really think that you can be a contender with EJ as your #1 D, seriously, think about what you are saying. EJ's career high was 39 points, which was 3 years ago, and hasn't since come close. His career +/- high is a grand total of "1", and more often than not in the negative. You seriously think that he can go head to head with the likes of Chara and Weber. Surpassing EJ up in the depth chart is not that difficult of a feat, for an elite D prospect. The D that you traded away for him, Shattenkirk, is actually a signficantly more accomplished player at this point in time, despite being in the league far fewer years; EJ has been in the league since 18, and his stats has hardly improved at all from his rookie year (33 pts, -9). He is a resounding and abject failure, if you are measuring him according to the #1 overall billing that he was drafted at.

Gormley is already probably the best D that's not playing in the NHL right now, and is a complete player. He easily has the potential to be a all around #2 D on a contender eventually. It's very likely that he will become a top 15 D in the NHL in the next 2/3 years, given the right circumstances (where he is given the right role, but not too much pressure).
Should you really label any other fan as delusional? Based on your posts, I think not.

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01-24-2013, 07:50 PM
  #123
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Gardiner has an injury, yes. That doesn't mean he's damaged goods. If anything, your golden boy Duchene is damaged goods, and then some.
Gardiner has PCS, Duchene does not.

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01-24-2013, 07:54 PM
  #124
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Hmm, I didn't realize ROR signed a 2 year.... why?

Most NHLers signed the "lockout" contracts in the KHL, why would Ryan sign a 2 year deal?
Because he's a good Canadian kid.

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01-24-2013, 07:56 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Dude, supposedly "comparable" players to EJ (according to Avs fans, not me), like Pronger or Chara, are already Norris candidates at this stage of their career (mid 20s). Pronger would have won the MVP the next season, you think EJ is going to be in sniffing distance of the Hart next year, are some avs fans really that delusional???

EJ is an above average D, probably a #3 on a contender, could probably fill in as a #1 on a bottom 25% D-corps of the league. You really think that you can be a contender with EJ as your #1 D, seriously, think about what you are saying. EJ's career high was 39 points, which was 3 years ago, and hasn't since come close. His career +/- high is a grand total of "1", and more often than not in the negative. You seriously think that he can go head to head with the likes of Chara and Weber. Surpassing EJ up in the depth chart is not that difficult of a feat, for an elite D prospect. The D that you traded away for him, Shattenkirk, is actually a signficantly more accomplished player at this point in time, despite being in the league far fewer years; EJ has been in the league since 18, and his stats has hardly improved at all from his rookie year (33 pts, -9). He is a resounding and abject failure, if you are measuring him according to the #1 overall billing that he was drafted at.

Gormley is already probably the best D that's not playing in the NHL right now, and is a complete player. He easily has the potential to be a all around #2 D on a contender eventually. It's very likely that he will become a top 15 D in the NHL in the next 2/3 years, given the right circumstances (where he is given the right role, but not too much pressure).
I disagree with this assessment of Eric Johnson. On the Coyotes he would be the top 'D' on the right side. Weber-type upside. Would make any offensive type d-man more effective.

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