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The hole on the second line (Tangradi -> Kennedy -> Glass -> ???)

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01-24-2013, 06:18 PM
  #76
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I agree that Tangradi needs time to get used to playing with skilled players too, but I'm not even going to argue that point.

That's one of the best lineups we can come up with until the deadline and can acquire a more skilled forward or two to play with Crosby.

I have no clue how you can disagree with my whole post though. Malkin would do well to be reunited with Kunitz so we could ice the best line in the NHL from a season ago. Tangradi would do well to be somewhere that he's not counted on to produce offense so he can just focus on playing his game. Crosby would play just fine for now with two players that play the same exact game that he does.
I just need this explained to me, someone, anyone. If Malkin is the best player in the world (which I keep reading), why is it that everyone is so concerned with his line that they give him the best wingers on the team while giving Crosby two people who would be 3rd-liners on a majority of teams in the NHL and say, "he'll figure it out."

I actually don't think Malkin needs this kind of treatment, but the fact that people keep saying it needs to happen seems to indicate to me that people actually think Crosby is far and away the better of the two players?

to your edit - I disagree quite easily... I see no need to relegate Crosby to being an 8.7MM 3rd line center.


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01-24-2013, 06:18 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I get that Shero wanted Parise or Doan & wasn't going to add a player just to add one. Tangradi has had a pretty rough start. Why no try DJ or Bennett? Then look at a trade if it doesn't work out.

My point is you don't create two holes to fill one.
Jeffrey I don't think they view as top 6 material and Bennett would require someone to be waived. I don't see Tangradi on the 4th line or even the third as creating a hole. I don't like putting Glass in Tk's spot on the third though. I could understand Glass taking Cooke's spot, but that 3rd line really has no offensive punch without TK on it.

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01-24-2013, 06:18 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I really hate taking Kunitz away from Sid. Though he's played like garbage so far, so maybe its not such a big deal.
Why is Kunitz attached at the hip to Crosby though? He played good with Sid for half a season two years ago (or was it 3 now?). I'd rather put Kunitz with the more sure thing, and sort out Crosby's line by what's left or through trade. There are other players in the lineup who brings what Kunitz brings. Maybe not quite as well, but good enough for the time being until Shero can find somebody else.

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01-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #79
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I just don't see Tangradi putting up a lot of points even strength. I think he would get the majority of his point in front of the net on the PP. Bylsma won't even try him on the 2nd unit. It's just a failed relation ship there.

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01-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Why is Kunitz attached at the hip to Crosby though? He played good with Sid for half a season two years ago (or was it 3 now?). I'd rather put Kunitz with the more sure thing, and sort out Crosby's line by what's left or through trade. There are other players in the lineup who brings what Kunitz brings. Maybe not quite as well, but good enough for the time being until Shero can find somebody else.
to avoid being a 1 line team. Once a trade happens, by all means move Kunitz with Malkin and Neal. But I don't want Dupuis to be the better of Sid's wings.

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01-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I just don't see Tangradi putting up a lot of points even strength. I think he would get the majority of his point in front of the net on the PP. Bylsma won't even try him on the 2nd unit. It's just a failed relation ship there.
I would love him to be on the 2nd unit. Would help him get his feet wet and really build some confidence as well.

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01-24-2013, 06:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
I just need this explained to me, someone, anyone. If Malkin is the best player in the world (which I keep reading), why is it that everyone is so concerned with his line that they give him the best wingers on the team while giving Crosby two people who would be 3rd-liners on a majority of teams in the NHL and say, "he'll figure it out."

I actually don't think Malkin needs this kind of treatment, but the fact that people keep saying it needs to happen seems to indicate to me that people actually think Crosby is far and away the better of the two players?

I disagree quite easily... I see no need to relegate Crosby to being an 8.7MM 3rd line center.
But Kunitz is sucking right now, and Dupuis IS a 3rd liner. Why are we going to continue to trot out that line when we all know none of the players on that line NOW as it stands do anything to help draw attention away from Crosby? How about just doing something different?

I'm not doing this to help Malkin specifically. I'm doing it to help the team, and help Kunitz get back on track among other things.

The point I am trying to make is that players always get tried out on Malkin's line first, and if they don't succeed they aren't even tried on Crosby's. The majority of the players that are tried with Malkin always seem to have better chemistry with Crosby based on the styles of play.

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01-24-2013, 06:24 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
But Kunitz is sucking right now, and Dupuis IS a 3rd liner. Why are we going to continue to trot out that line when we all know none of the players on that line NOW as it stands do anything to help draw attention away from Crosby?

I'm not doing this to help Malkin specifically. I'm doing it to help the team, and help Kunitz get back on track.

The point I am trying to make is that players always get tried out on Malkin's line first, and if they don't succeed they aren't even tried on Crosby's. The majority of the players that are tried with Malkin always seem to have better chemistry with Crosby based on the styles of play.
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis in 2010 out performed (I believe, on a PPG basis), K-M-N from last year.

But I guess if we're not doing this to help Malkin, we're just trying to help the team, they should move Neal up to Kunitz and Crosby's line to see how it works

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01-24-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
But Kunitz is sucking right now, and Dupuis IS a 3rd liner. Why are we going to continue to trot out that line when we all know none of the players on that line NOW as it stands do anything to help draw attention away from Crosby? How about just doing something different?

I'm not doing this to help Malkin specifically. I'm doing it to help the team, and help Kunitz get back on track among other things.

The point I am trying to make is that players always get tried out on Malkin's line first, and if they don't succeed they aren't even tried on Crosby's. The majority of the players that are tried with Malkin always seem to have better chemistry with Crosby based on the styles of play.
so you're saying we should switch Neal and Kunitz?

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01-24-2013, 06:26 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
to avoid being a 1 line team. Once a trade happens, by all means move Kunitz with Malkin and Neal. But I don't want Dupuis to be the better of Sid's wings.
I really thing people sell Kennedy short. He gets so much crap, but for all of that he's never really been tried with Crosby, and when he has, he's done well. Maybe he chest snipes one two many times and that's all people remember, but nobody wants to give the guy a chance to learn how to play with Crosby. It's not like he doesn't bring other valuable assets to that line in the meantime.

I actually think Kennedy would be a better natural fit with Crosby than Dupuis IN TIME, and that's not saying Kennedy is a better player than Dupuis.

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01-24-2013, 06:28 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I really thing people sell Kennedy short. He gets so much crap, but for all of that he's never really been tried with Crosby, and when he has, he's done well. Maybe he chest snipes one two many times and that's all people remember, but nobody wants to give the guy a chance to learn how to play with Crosby. It's not like he doesn't bring other valuable assets to that line in the meantime.

I actually think Kennedy would be a better natural fit with Crosby than Dupuis IN TIME, and that's not saying Kennedy is a better player than Dupuis.
He was with Crosby last year, and lots of people noticed last year that Kennedy would eschew a pass to a wide open Crosby in favor of his chess snipes. And more then one person felt that Crosby looked frustrated playing with TK. Matt Cookie is a better complimentary winger for both Geno and Crosby than TK.

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01-24-2013, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis in 2010 out performed (I believe, on a PPG basis), K-M-N from last year.

But I guess if we're not doing this to help Malkin, we're just trying to help the team, they should move Neal up to Kunitz and Crosby's line to see how it works
Yet somehow Dupuis and Kunitz had career years last season not playing with Crosby.

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01-24-2013, 06:29 PM
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He was with Crosby last year, and lots of people noticed last year that Kennedy would eschew a pass to a wide open Crosby in favor of his chess snipes. And more then one person felt that Crosby looked frustrated playing with TK. Matt Cookie is a better complimentary winger for both Geno and Crosby than TK.
Yes, and that's why he needs time to adjust to playing with a star player. Lets completely ignore the fact that he scored goals and created offense. Just focus on the chest snipes, which is something that he can be coached not to do.

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01-24-2013, 06:29 PM
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I really thing people sell Kennedy short. He gets so much crap, but for all of that he's never really been tried with Crosby, and when he has, he's done well. Maybe he chest snipes one two many times and that's all people remember, but nobody wants to give the guy a chance to learn how to play with Crosby. It's not like he doesn't bring other valuable assets to that line in the meantime.

I actually think Kennedy would be a better natural fit with Crosby than Dupuis IN TIME, and that's not saying Kennedy is a better player than Dupuis.
I really just don't see it. I especially don't see it with Dupuis on the other side. There is no physical presence and not enough talent to make up for it.

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01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
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Jeffrey I don't think they view as top 6 material and Bennett would require someone to be waived. I don't see Tangradi on the 4th line or even the third as creating a hole. I don't like putting Glass in Tk's spot on the third though. I could understand Glass taking Cooke's spot, but that 3rd line really has no offensive punch without TK on it.
Lovejoy says hello. We don't need 8 Dmen especially a bad one like him.

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01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
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so you're saying we should switch Neal and Kunitz?


My logic might make it seem like I'm saying that. I just simply believe that we should be trying some of these players on Crosby's line instead of Malkin's. It's not like Dupuis and Kunitz are lighting the world on fire, and we know what a line of Kunitz-Malkin-Neal can do.

I'd rather put that line together and try to find complimentary pieces for Crosby based on that fact. I also believe we have them, but most people don't like the idea of ever trying it regardless of the fact that the styles mesh, yet have rarely been tried.

Also lets not forget to note the fact that Kennedy had a down year last year, but coincidentally got stronger at the end of the season when he got the chance to play with Crosby.

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01-24-2013, 06:35 PM
  #92
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Yet somehow Dupuis and Kunitz had career years last season not playing with Crosby.
Dupuis lost his damn mind last year. hard to explain. Though his best hockey came when Sid was back.

Kunitz was finally in the role he belongs in last year. The problem is, he's also the best option (only real option other than Neal) to be the number 2 guy with Sid.

All this conversation is doing is reminding me just how badly we need at least one more winger. Its not a want. It's an absolute need. There is no good top 6 configuration with our current line-up. It doesn't exist.

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01-24-2013, 06:36 PM
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I really just don't see it. I especially don't see it with Dupuis on the other side. There is no physical presence and not enough talent to make up for it.
What are we needing the physicality for exactly though? I mean I understand why you'd want to have it, but those 3 on the forecheck would be the most annoying line in the NHL to play against. They would create a lot of turnovers I'd predict. Maybe they wouldn't be laying defenders out, but they all go to the front of the net, they all transition to offense quickly, they all cycle well. I mean those 3 all play the same style of game.

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01-24-2013, 06:36 PM
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Lovejoy says hello. We don't need 8 Dmen especially a bad one like him.
someone will get hurt. Bring him up then. No reason to throw away more guys for nothing.

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01-24-2013, 06:37 PM
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Dupuis lost his damn mind last year. hard to explain. Though his best hockey came when Sid was back.

Kunitz was finally in the role he belongs in last year. The problem is, he's also the best option (only real option other than Neal) to be the number 2 guy with Sid.

All this conversation is doing is reminding me just how badly we need at least one more winger. Its not a want. It's an absolute need. There is no good top 6 configuration with our current line-up. It doesn't exist.
This I can agree with.

It's not like I want that setup long term. I'm just saying for now until we can find something better.

Look, last season we were I think one point away from being the top team in the East. That was with us icing that Kunitz-Malkin-Neal line with ???-Staal-Kennedy being the 2nd (was it Sullivan on the other wing?). Why can't we be that good again with Crosby in that spot? It's not ideal, but I think those guys would play well together for the time being.

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01-24-2013, 06:40 PM
  #96
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What are we needing the physicality for exactly though? I mean I understand why you'd want to have it, but those 3 on the forecheck would be the most annoying line in the NHL to play against. They would create a lot of turnovers I'd predict. Maybe they wouldn't be laying defenders out, but they all go to the front of the net, they all transition to offense quickly, they all cycle well. I mean those 3 all play the same style of game.
I honestly don't know if I think TK could stay healthy through 15 games playing top line ice time vs the opponents Sid plays against. He is small for the game he plays. Its not a coincidence that he's hurt every year. Now if his job switches from carrying the puck to being the first guy in to collect dump ins on his side, I think he'd be in some trouble.

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01-24-2013, 06:41 PM
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This I can agree with.

It's not like I want that setup long term. I'm just saying for now until we can find something better.

Look, last season we were I think one point away from being the top team in the East. That was with us icing that Kunitz-Malkin-Neal line with ???-Staal-Kennedy being the 2nd (was it Sullivan on the other wing?). Why can't we be that good again with Crosby in that spot? It's not ideal, but I think those guys would play well together for the time being.
It was Sullivan - Staal - Dupuis. TK and Cooke flanked the rotating cast of 3rd line centers the majority of the year.

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01-24-2013, 06:42 PM
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I'd like TK to stay on the 3rd line, but this is the situation we're in. Probably not a popular opinion right now, but the third line looks lukewarm offensively so far. I'd like to keep it together.

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01-24-2013, 06:43 PM
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I honestly don't know if I think TK could stay healthy through 15 games playing top line ice time vs the opponents Sid plays against. He is small for the game he plays. Its not a coincidence that he's hurt every year. Now if his job switches from carrying the puck to being the first guy in to collect dump ins on his side, I think he'd be in some trouble.
Well I think with Kennedy's ability to hold onto the puck along with Crosby's, I don't think they'd be doing a ton of dump and chase anyway. Plus I think a lot of their offense will come off of the rush anyway with the turnovers their speed will create.

Dupuis is there in any case to absorb hits on the forecheck too, and lets not act like Kunitz hasn't had his issues with health over the past few seasons (even though he was healthy last year).

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01-24-2013, 06:43 PM
  #100
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someone will get hurt. Bring him up then. No reason to throw away more guys for nothing.
Addition by subtraction. The guy got benched in the playoffs for a 20 year old kid. That's how bad his play was. I just want who he black mailed over the summer because with how bad he played against Philly I thought for sure he was done.

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