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Would you trade Fowler for Nino Neiderreiter??

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01-24-2013, 04:16 PM
  #126
RPGrizzly
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Originally Posted by Hampeus View Post
No, I did not, but I have now. Even if there's talk of Wang spending, I'm still not sure if it's true.
Why? Look at his track record, Yashin, DP, they were even in the running for Kovalchuk as a free agent, at the time it was rumored they were willing to offer $100M over 10 years. Wang has never been shy about spending money.

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01-24-2013, 04:17 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Absolutely not. We're going to get better offers than that.
I wouldn't consider that a certainty. It's very much questionable how many teams will put blue chip prospects of Niederreiter's calibre on the table for a UFA to be (historically, they don't), and depending on where the Isles stand, their 1st would figure to at least be better than most of the contenders that would be chasing Perry for their playoff run. In terms of single valuable assets, I don't think an offer like that would be blown out of the water, to say the least.

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01-24-2013, 04:27 PM
  #128
Eddie Shack
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Absolutely not. We're going to get better offers than that.
Well, maybe but the hypothetical situation is that he won't sign here. That makes it risky for anybody to acquire him before he goes ufa. We're not talking about a signed Perry.

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01-24-2013, 04:31 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Absolutely not. We're going to get better offers than that.
As vipers said, the value of the individual assets is probably higher than what we could command. How often to prospects as valued as Nino or picks as potentially low as the Isles get moved for deadline rentals? Almost never.

This is because a) the kinds of playoff teams who would move them rarely have pieces of that caliber who aren't already on the team (in which case they wouldn't move them be cause they are trying to compete now and won't move significant roster pieces and b) pieces that valuable are just rarely moved.

More total value might be offered, but it would probably be from quantity and not quality.

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01-24-2013, 04:42 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Nino failed gloriously in the NHL, but he picked right back up in the AHL this season so I am not overly worried about him being ruined by the bad season. The consensus is that is why his agent pushed the "Trade Me" button after he was bypassed for a camp invite despite impressive AHL numbers. I think he will be a very good wing one day, possibly as soon as two years from now. And this is from someone who would still take Cam over Nino 7 days a week.

I think I am going to link between the two threads because I want Islander fans to see opinions of folks who watched him every game. If Cam had some horrible defect in his game, certainly, you guys would be all over it.
Nino = potential NHL player
Cam = potential superstar defenseman (already an accomplished top 4 d-man, in fact, he played as the top pairing)

If you want a good trade based upon similar results, then I'd do a Patrick Maroon for Nino. Both do great in the AHL, but Maroon can score more often than Nino in 55 games. Unfortunately, the way Nino's production is right now it seems eerily familiar to Patrick Maroon.

Anyhow, you're talking to an org where we still have a bad taste left in our mouths from a prospect who had their own agenda. Sorry, but that's a negative already in my book. Also, talented defensemen outrank talented LW's. I wouldn't trade Vatanen for Nino.

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01-24-2013, 04:46 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I hope I don't regret asking this but...if Perry makes it obvious he won't sign here would you trade him for Nino + a 1st?
If he won't commit to sign with the Islanders it's asking too much, if he will commit to signing with the Islanders it's not enough.

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01-24-2013, 05:19 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If he won't commit to sign with the Islanders it's asking too much, if he will commit to signing with the Islanders it's not enough.
I somewhat agree with DVM I would want hamonic and Niño and 1st for a signed Perry.

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01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
  #133
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Cam = future NHL superstar
Enough said.

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01-24-2013, 06:36 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If he won't commit to sign with the Islanders it's asking too much, if he will commit to signing with the Islanders it's not enough.
Agreed, but maybe that's why it's a good compromise for NYI. If Snow knows he has Wang's support to open the pocketbook he also knows he needs a head start over the other teams. Get Perry to town, get him comfortable and then pretty much give him what he wants. If Perry won't sign here (due likely to money) NYI could be a nice place for him to settle if they give him what he wants.

If he won't sign here and we have to deal him, we will already be in the position of getting a "rental" return. If Snow knows he has the chance to spend competitively he might be willing to pay us.

While I wouldn't call it likely, I could see the possibility. Maybe I'd even give them back next year's 2nd.

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01-24-2013, 06:37 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
I somewhat agree with DVM I would want hamonic and Niño and 1st for a signed Perry.
A signed Perry isn't going anywhere.

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01-24-2013, 06:38 PM
  #136
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I love Cam as much as anyone else, but calling him a future NHL superstar is a bit premature.

I don't trade him for Nino simply because Cam is more a proven commodity.

If Cam was the one requesting the trade and Nino was being a happy little camper, then this would be a compelling offer.

As far as I'm concerned Islander should be happy to get Lindholm given their lack of depth as D, how close he is to the show, etc.

I have a feeling that Ducks are probably turned off by the whole trade request thingy anyways and are probably looking for a more bonafied center than a wing anyways.

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01-24-2013, 06:39 PM
  #137
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I might be drunk, but are you suggesting that a signed Perry would go to the Islanders without Tavares coming our way?

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01-24-2013, 06:54 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
A signed Perry isn't going anywhere.
If its an agree to sign with Isles and wants the trade yes he will.

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01-24-2013, 06:56 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
If its an agree to sign with Isles and wants the trade yes he will.
You keep dreaming about these "agreements" that will get us more in a trade. When was the last time there was ever an agreement like this?

Sign and trades dont happen unless the player doesnt see it coming.

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01-24-2013, 07:01 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I hope I don't regret asking this but...if Perry makes it obvious he won't sign here would you trade him for Nino + a 1st?
So lets see Eddie Shack an unsigned Perry will go for a very great prospect and likely a top 5 pick in this years draft to a non playoff bound team most likely?

I don't even know what to say to this. When I first replied to this post I was assuming it was a sign and trade deal or a an agreement to sign with Isles.

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01-24-2013, 07:04 PM
  #141
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I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm pretty ****ing sure Perry and Getzlaf will re-sign with Anaheim at top dollar. around 7-9m / year.

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01-24-2013, 07:07 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Agreed, but maybe that's why it's a good compromise for NYI. If Snow knows he has Wang's support to open the pocketbook he also knows he needs a head start over the other teams. Get Perry to town, get him comfortable and then pretty much give him what he wants. If Perry won't sign here (due likely to money) NYI could be a nice place for him to settle if they give him what he wants.

If he won't sign here and we have to deal him, we will already be in the position of getting a "rental" return. If Snow knows he has the chance to spend competitively he might be willing to pay us.

While I wouldn't call it likely, I could see the possibility. Maybe I'd even give them back next year's 2nd.
We already boned em for a 2nd. Theres no way Snow goes for a super expensive trade for an unsigned Perry. There's just no way... They wouldn't even have draft picks in a very deep draft this year until 3rd round depending on trade assets going back an forth. That's worst than a Phil Kessel trade.... Atleast Toronto got to keep Kessel

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01-24-2013, 07:08 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
So lets see Eddie Shack an unsigned Perry will go for a very great prospect and likely a top 5 pick in this years draft to a non playoff bound team most likely?

I don't even know what to say to this. When I first replied to this post I was assuming it was a sign and trade deal or a an agreement to sign with Isles.
You really need to get past this "sign and trade" thing. You spent forever ranting that Schultz should do it and now you think Perry should do it. It doesn't happen in the NHL. This isn't the NBA so you need to just forget that.

As for my reasoning, I explained it previously. You don't have to agree with it and I didn't say it was a given but it's way more possible than a sign and trade.

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01-24-2013, 07:10 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
You keep dreaming about these "agreements" that will get us more in a trade. When was the last time there was ever an agreement like this?

Sign and trades dont happen unless the player doesnt see it coming.
People are dreaming we're gonna get a 1st and Nino from a bad team who will likely be top 5 pick in this years draft for an unsigned Perry. That's dreaming right there.

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01-24-2013, 07:10 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by RPGrizzly View Post
Why? Look at his track record, Yashin, DP, they were even in the running for Kovalchuk as a free agent, at the time it was rumored they were willing to offer $100M over 10 years. Wang has never been shy about spending money.
He's been very cheap for the most part that past half decade. The DiPietro deal was made a little under 7 years ago.

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01-24-2013, 07:14 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
We already boned em for a 2nd. Theres no way Snow goes for a super expensive trade for an unsigned Perry. There's just no way... They wouldn't even have draft picks in a very deep draft this year until 3rd round depending on trade assets going back an forth. That's worst than a Phil Kessel trade.... Atleast Toronto got to keep Kessel
A. There's no way we "boned em for a 2nd". Lubo did.
B. I said I might give back the second in a Perry deal.
C. Probably less than 1% of the proposed trades on HF ever happen. So shoot me if this one doesn't.

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01-24-2013, 07:15 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
People are dreaming we're gonna get a 1st and Nino from a bad team who will likely be top 5 pick in this years draft for an unsigned Perry. That's dreaming right there.
Perry agreeing to sign with that **** team is less of a dream?

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01-24-2013, 07:31 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
If you want a good trade based upon similar results, then I'd do a Patrick Maroon for Nino. Both do great in the AHL, but Maroon can score more often than Nino in 55 games. (Note made by Hampeus: Maroon's never scored a point in the NHL btw) Unfortunately, the way Nino's production is right now it seems eerily familiar to Patrick Maroon.
What??

You're severely underrating Niederreiter. Just because he had a bad year in the NHL at the age of 19, doesn't mean he's all of a sudden a terrible prospect. If you put Etem in the NHL last year, I would guarantee he'd have a hell of time producing too. Nino wasn't ready for the NHL, and it was a stupid decision by the Isles. He's still only 20 years old, he has lots of talent and upside, and can very well be a very good player in the NHL in a few years.

Patrick Maroon is 24, slow, with limited upside. Maroon had a good year in the AHL last year, but it's the AHL. Jason Krog was an amazing AHL player too, but he still was a well below average NHLer. I'm not saying Maroon can't be a decent NHL hockey player one day, but comparing him to Niederreiter is crazy.

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01-24-2013, 08:44 PM
  #149
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Honestly after reading that would any of you here claim that i bashed Cam at all? let alone sparked a debate on whether he should be traded for Nino??
Yes, actually, I would. Your entire argument is based on Fowler's stats, and an article's use of advanced stats, not any actual observations based on his play. Then you proceed to use his draft position as an argument against him. Everything about your post basically screams "He's just not that good." starting with your first sentence "1st off whats this love affair with Can Fowler???"

If that's not belittling him as a player, it's a damn good imitation of it.

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01-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #150
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If you don't see the talent in Cam Fowler...You're boxscore scouting. Guy played against the best forwards in the world as a 19/20 year old last year. He did not have a sophmore slump...he was just leaned on much more than his rookie year.

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