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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:33 PM
  #601
Sour Shoes
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?
in what way would this matter? every scoring champ has games like this throughout the season. that's what uh... elite scorers do? this was a weak attempt to discredit geno.

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12-24-2012, 02:52 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?
You mean like that 1 time Crosby got 4 or 5 points against a rookie goalie against NY islanders? This happens to all players.

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12-24-2012, 04:13 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?
So you're asking if he's still dominating other teams offensively? Yes.

When are 5 point nights a bad thing? Ovechkin would take that on any given night...too bad he hasn't done it in the NHL for awhile.

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12-25-2012, 02:57 AM
  #604
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OK, hold on, guys. Malkin tearing it up has nothing to do with Ovechkin. His "prime" has nothing to do with how Malkin is playing. Clearly, Geno has progressed in these past couple of years, so just because he might be a better player now doesn't mean Ovechkin has regressed. His best might just be better than Ovechkin's best. And I'm not arguing either way here, because I can't really decide.

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12-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
in what way would this matter? every scoring champ has games like this throughout the season. that's what uh... elite scorers do?
Yeh, 8-1 wouldn't be 8-1 without 5 points.

I did a quick look at Malkin's games: he had 10 3+ point games: 6 against no-playoff teams (by now), 4 against bottom playoff teams (Lev, Neftekhimik, Barys, Severstal), 0 against contenders.
So yeah, he feasts on worse teams, and yeah, this is completely normal. If we have to compare him to Ovechkin, we'd better look at Geno's greater ice time and more offensive system. Dynamo, while leading the West, rarely wins games more than +2.

What is really important that even with all that Malkin's scoring doesn't dwarf Ovechkin's so hopefully he's back to his prime ( )

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12-25-2012, 03:21 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Yeh, 8-1 wouldn't be 8-1 without 5 points.

I did a quick look at Malkin's games: he had 10 3+ point games: 6 against no-playoff teams (by now), 4 against bottom playoff teams (Lev, Neftekhimik, Barys, Severstal), 0 against contenders.
So yeah, he feasts on worse teams, and yeah, this is completely normal. If we have to compare him to Ovechkin, we'd better look at Geno's greater ice time and more offensive system. Dynamo, while leading the West, rarely wins games more than +2.

What is really important that even with all that Malkin's scoring doesn't dwarf Ovechkin's so hopefully he's back to his prime ( )
Ovechkin also played his first 7 or 8 games with Anisin and Gorovikov, who are both -9 on a team with a +39 goal differential.

Oleg Znaroks is very much like Dale Hunter without the anti-Russian bias.

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12-25-2012, 04:30 PM
  #607
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Dynamo is the best team and plays a very defensive style. Ovechkin is really helping carry them to a KHL Championship with his offense.

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12-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Dale Hunter without the anti-Russian bias.
Anti-Russian bias? Really?!?!

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Old
12-25-2012, 10:11 PM
  #609
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Ovechkin can be past his prime on my team anyday.

Chances are, he will be LOL

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01-23-2013, 02:54 PM
  #610
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Ovi just doesn't look the same at all. I have him in my pool, so obviously I'm not hating on him and I truly he hope he roars back.

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01-23-2013, 03:04 PM
  #611
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He just doesn't generate enough shots these days. Gone are the days of 400-500 shots turning into 50-60 goals. After defenses got savvy to the deke inside quick release shot, he dropped from 528 shots to 368 shots. Only finished with 6 fewer goals, but think of all the scoring opportunities for linemates that must disappear with 160 fewer shots directed at the net. Last year he was further reduced to just 303 shots, with teams getting ever better at forcing those shots from farther out and farther off to the side, and he ended with under 40 goals. Season is young, but with 8 shots in his first two games, he'll have to play every game to break the 300 shot plateau this year at that pace, or take better advantage of his best scoring opportunities if he's going to top 40 goals again.

Now, if you "decline" to 40 goals, you're obviously still a great player. But those who saw years ago that he was quite a "one-trick pony", and prognosticated that defenses would figure him out and reduce his effectiveness over time if he didn't adapt, look pretty smart these days.

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01-23-2013, 03:24 PM
  #612
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Has nothing to do with with defenses figuring him out. He's just not as fast and powerful as before. Now his game relies much more on his linemates, who simply suck big time. Even Backstrom.

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01-23-2013, 03:38 PM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
Has nothing to do with with defenses figuring him out. He's just not as fast and powerful as before. Now his game relies much more on his linemates, who simply suck big time. Even Backstrom.
Ovechkin doesn't go from 528 shots in '08/09 to 368 in '09/10 purely because of a "drop in speed or power", sorry.

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01-23-2013, 03:55 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Now, if you "decline" to 40 goals, you're obviously still a great player. But those who saw years ago that he was quite a "one-trick pony", and prognosticated that defenses would figure him out and reduce his effectiveness over time if he didn't adapt, look pretty smart these days.
Tbh those who didn't see this coming looked pretty dumb already back then.

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01-23-2013, 03:56 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?
You act like thats a bad thing.

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01-23-2013, 04:02 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by MyNewNick View Post
Tbh those who didn't see this coming looked pretty dumb already back then.
Really? So all the smart people knew that after 5 full seasons of tearing the league a new one, Ovechkin would suddenly get 'figured out?' What were coaches doing, exactly, during those 396 games? Being so spectacularly clever, the people who knew this would be coming can surely explain it.


Last edited by bunjay: 01-23-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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01-23-2013, 06:10 PM
  #617
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Tbh those who didn't see this coming looked pretty dumb already back then.
True, and "glad" I wasn't among them. Doesn't change anything, though.

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01-23-2013, 06:27 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
Has nothing to do with with defenses figuring him out. He's just not as fast and powerful as before. Now his game relies much more on his linemates, who simply suck big time. Even Backstrom.
Disagree.

I don't see a huge difference in his overall speed or ability to shoot, or the qualtiy of his teammates. What I do see is him getting pushed outside and always shooting from poor lanes. That is a defensive strategy to keep him outside. He will always go to his forehand, we know that. He is going to drag the puck and use the d-man as a screen, we know that. If we know that, NHL coaches know it and a heck of a lot more.

He has no time to shoot anymore. Maybe he has slowed down a bit, but I think he was kind of a one-trick pony whose trick got exposed, and he has not adapted.

Before every Ovy fan goes nuts with that last statement, I will say this: I completely believe that he has it in him to adapt his game. I don't know if he will, but he is still an elite talent that could probably make some slight alterations to his game and if not score as many goals, still be a very effective player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNewNick View Post
Tbh those who didn't see this coming looked pretty dumb already back then.
Agree.

I called this back when I first joined HB. Look it up. I felt like it was a matter of time before defenses would figure out how to defend agasint him. They do that for all the great players, so it was not really a difficult prediction. How the player responds is the question. So far, not well in Ovy's case.

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01-24-2013, 08:37 PM
  #619
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Today Vitaly Davydov, a 73-yr old vice-president of HC Dynamo Moscow, has given an interview to Sport-express. I'll try to translate:

"Backstrom really impressed me. What a skating! It's the most important thing in hockey. No classy skating - nothing helps you. He feels situations on the rink a step earlier. Ovie is one of the best players all around the world, but very banal. He has just one way - gets the puck, hits an opponent, runs a tray along the board, enters the zone and fires. But to play original and sophisticated - that's not about Sasha."

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01-24-2013, 09:06 PM
  #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukcha View Post
Today Vitaly Davydov, a 73-yr old vice-president of HC Dynamo Moscow, has given an interview to Sport-express. I'll try to translate:

"Backstrom really impressed me. What a skating! It's the most important thing in hockey. No classy skating - nothing helps you. He feels situations on the rink a step earlier. Ovie is one of the best players all around the world, but very banal. He has just one way - gets the puck, hits an opponent, runs a tray along the board, enters the zone and fires. But to play original and sophisticated - that's not about Sasha."
That's what made him such a great player. He'd skate right into your zone and let a shot go and score.

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01-24-2013, 09:29 PM
  #621
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Disagree.

I don't see a huge difference in his overall speed or ability to shoot, or the qualtiy of his teammates.
OV's shot is his shot, but the explosiveness in his legs is gone. The difference in acceleration now vs five years ago is really remarkable and that's what's affecting his shot totals.

He's not fat anymore, so it must just be something he lost with age. Jagr lost a similar amount of explosiveness around the same age, but his other tools combined with his stratospheric hockey IQ allowed him to adjust and not miss a beat.

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01-24-2013, 09:34 PM
  #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukcha View Post
Today Vitaly Davydov, a 73-yr old vice-president of HC Dynamo Moscow, has given an interview to Sport-express. I'll try to translate:

"Backstrom really impressed me. What a skating! It's the most important thing in hockey. No classy skating - nothing helps you. He feels situations on the rink a step earlier. Ovie is one of the best players all around the world, but very banal. He has just one way - gets the puck, hits an opponent, runs a tray along the board, enters the zone and fires. But to play original and sophisticated - that's not about Sasha."
Once the defenders have OV's few tactics figured out, then a drop in production is nothing unusual. He's still a 1st player just not the elite forward he used to be.

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01-24-2013, 09:37 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by CN_paladin View Post
Once the defenders have OV's few tactics figured out, then a drop in production is nothing unusual. He's still a 1st player just not the elite forward he used to be.
I call BS on that. He's been part of the select few that could produce 50 goals, 100+ points, year in, year out, and he did it for 5 (well, minus his sophomore season) consecutive years. I'd think if it was about figuring him out, a season would have been enough, but 5 years? I don't buy that excuse.

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01-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
That's what made him such a great player. He'd skate right into your zone and let a shot go and score.
I don't think it has much to do with defences "figuring him out" or they would've done it by season 2 or 4.

The problem is the dead puck era 2.0 has been going for at least a year now and it makes it difficult for Ovechkin to do what he does best. Just a lot less open ice when you're allowed to push the physicality further. Plus tbh he has lost maybe a bit of an edge but I'd say it has the most to do with an increase in interference/physical type hockey.

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01-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #625
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LOL nice this thread is back.

Capitals look ****ing terrible, changes need to be made.

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