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Old
01-19-2013, 09:53 AM
  #451
mightyquack
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Frankfurt fans

And you wonder why no-one likes you

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01-19-2013, 10:26 AM
  #452
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good thing Leverkusen wipes the floor with them

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01-19-2013, 10:57 AM
  #453
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good thing Leverkusen wipes the floor with them
I'll laugh if they collapse and get relegated like 10/11. That was still one of my favourites things in the Bundesliga in recent years

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01-19-2013, 11:01 AM
  #454
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Frankfurt fans

And you wonder why no-one likes you
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Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier View Post
good thing Leverkusen wipes the floor with them
No kidding. And they act surprised when they're being examined closely at road games...

But surely this display will do them a "Bärendienst" (great disservice). Can't wait for DFL to come down hard with the punishment here and going forward. Club(s) won't be able to be as soft with their "supporters" as they were in the past, and in some places, it's badly needed.

EDIT: The most truely amazing thing is the disservice they did to their team in this one. Their team was apparently looking pretty good at the time, then the idiots did idiot-things, and after the break, their team lost traction on the game. Good job.


Last edited by Vipers31: 01-19-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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Old
01-19-2013, 11:02 AM
  #455
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I'll laugh if they collapse and get relegated like 10/11. That was still one of my favourites things in the Bundesliga in recent years
That game vs schalke which basically saved us and sent them on their way down was crazy

first Raul hides behind Fährmann, then when he puts the ball down takes it and gets fouled for the penalty

then some frankfurt dude just clears the ball and ends beating neuer from like 80 metres for 1-1

then angelos freaking charisteas gets subbed in and scores with his first touch

you can't make that **** up

Would have liked to see Wolfsburg relegated that year though

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01-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #456
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The big thing with Frankfurt is, it isn't helping fans cause in relation to their views on the new security measures etc, and we all know how politicians, no matter what country will twist these isolated incidents into some massive national news story.

That 10/11 season was fun, we were basically in relegation zone till a ridiculous run in final 10 games to finish 7th . It was awesome to see so many tight matches at end of season as well to see who would stay up etc

I agree on Wolfsburg, at least hopefully Kurz gets a 2nd team relegated in 2 seasons with Hoppenheim (I have never actually seen or met a Hoppenheim fan before, ever)

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01-19-2013, 03:36 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
The big thing with Frankfurt is, it isn't helping fans cause in relation to their views on the new security measures etc, and we all know how politicians, no matter what country will twist these isolated incidents into some massive national news story.

That 10/11 season was fun, we were basically in relegation zone till a ridiculous run in final 10 games to finish 7th . It was awesome to see so many tight matches at end of season as well to see who would stay up etc

I agree on Wolfsburg, at least hopefully Kurz gets a 2nd team relegated in 2 seasons with Hoppenheim (I have never actually seen or met a Hoppenheim fan before, ever)
People are easily manipulated, that's why politicians make it such an issue. Look at this thread and the reaction to a minor thing like that.

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01-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #458
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People are easily manipulated, that's why politicians make it such an issue. Look at this thread and the reaction to a minor thing like that.
It's not a minor thing. People calling it a minor thing for as long as they have are part of why it's so difficult to get rid of that crap now.

Another problem is the media's double standard, as they still love to use pictures with stands filled with flares to illustrate great atmosphere. Still doesn't mean it's a minor thing. It's a rule, and a substantial one, and not purely formal.

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01-19-2013, 04:49 PM
  #459
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It's not a minor thing. People calling it a minor thing for as long as they have are part of why it's so difficult to get rid of that crap now.

Another problem is the media's double standard, as they still love to use pictures with stands filled with flares to illustrate great atmosphere. Still doesn't mean it's a minor thing. It's a rule, and a substantial one, and not purely formal.
It's a rule yes, but holding a flare isn't an act of violence or hooligansm. The current situation has been brought on by the inflexibility and rigidity of authorities. Flares are awesome. If you want to make their use safer, try to find arrangements with the fans with regards to their use but instead they criminalize the fans and start media campaigns againt them and then they act surprised when the fans get more aggressive.

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01-19-2013, 05:14 PM
  #460
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Flares are awesome.
I think they are distinctly irrelevant. I don't think they're emphasizing an excited crowd, at all.

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If you want to make their use safer, try to find arrangements with the fans with regards to their use but instead they criminalize the fans and start media campaigns againt them and then they act surprised when the fans get more aggressive.
They don't really have to criminalize them when what they're doing already is, and has been, illegal. They are illegal to use in stadiums for reasons. These fans need to stop acting like entitled brats that had a toy they were never actually allowed to play with taken away. They need to stop acting surprised when they are being called out for pissing on the rules. They're themselves demonizing authorities, just accusing them assuming there isn't all kinds of implications on them potentially allowing these things officially. They need to respect the damn democratic processes in a society that decided to not go with spending money on making their use safer, when it's rather obvious that can't be guaranteed, for the imaginary effect of helping an "atmosphere" they feel they fail to create without it. They tried to get enough people on their side of the cause, follow the democratic channels, but when they failed, they decided "eff it, we'll keep doing it anyway, because eff you". There's nothing worthy of respect or tolerance in that. They're just being ignorant and delinquent, at this point. Great to see these people have less and less backing in the broader football community, including boos from their fellow fans.

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Old
01-19-2013, 05:32 PM
  #461
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So I don't get to watch many Bundesliga games this year since DirecTV dropped GolTV.

I folow everything Dortmund, but can somebody tell me how Werder Bremen look?

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01-19-2013, 06:37 PM
  #462
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So I don't get to watch many Bundesliga games this year since DirecTV dropped GolTV.

I folow everything Dortmund, but can somebody tell me how Werder Bremen look?
If I was a bremen fan, i'd be frustrated as hell... always when I watch them they show promise, a good passing game, etc, but their defense is terrible and they just can't finifh their chances. You yould see it again today against dortmund, while clearly inferior they still looked like they could score, which I don't see often against dortmund.

All in all their squad looks talented... but in fact Petersen is just not a good striker, Hunt is up and down, de Bruyne is their best player but also the only one who consistently shows drive, always when I wastched Arnautovic this season I was impressed, but bottom line is he still has only scored 3 goals or so. Junusovic also looks talented, but no one can score.

And as I said their defense is in shambles, and the defensive midfield does little to help them.

On talent alone they could probably reach the EL spots, but they somehow always ifnd a way to lose.

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01-19-2013, 06:38 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
The big thing with Frankfurt is, it isn't helping fans cause in relation to their views on the new security measures etc, and we all know how politicians, no matter what country will twist these isolated incidents into some massive national news story.

That 10/11 season was fun, we were basically in relegation zone till a ridiculous run in final 10 games to finish 7th . It was awesome to see so many tight matches at end of season as well to see who would stay up etc

I agree on Wolfsburg, at least hopefully Kurz gets a 2nd team relegated in 2 seasons with Hoppenheim (I have never actually seen or met a Hoppenheim fan before, ever)
I have!

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01-19-2013, 10:41 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
They don't really have to criminalize them when what they're doing already is, and has been, illegal. They are illegal to use in stadiums for reasons. These fans need to stop acting like entitled brats that had a toy they were never actually allowed to play with taken away. They need to stop acting surprised when they are being called out for pissing on the rules. They're themselves demonizing authorities, just accusing them assuming there isn't all kinds of implications on them potentially allowing these things officially. They need to respect the damn democratic processes in a society that decided to not go with spending money on making their use safer, when it's rather obvious that can't be guaranteed, for the imaginary effect of helping an "atmosphere" they feel they fail to create without it. They tried to get enough people on their side of the cause, follow the democratic channels, but when they failed, they decided "eff it, we'll keep doing it anyway, because eff you". There's nothing worthy of respect or tolerance in that. They're just being ignorant and delinquent, at this point. Great to see these people have less and less backing in the broader football community, including boos from their fellow fans.
I could give you my opinion on democracy in the Federal Republic of Germany but that would take things beyond the scope of this thread or board.

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Old
01-19-2013, 10:54 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Schalkenullvier View Post
If I was a bremen fan, i'd be frustrated as hell... always when I watch them they show promise, a good passing game, etc, but their defense is terrible and they just can't finifh their chances. You yould see it again today against dortmund, while clearly inferior they still looked like they could score, which I don't see often against dortmund.

All in all their squad looks talented... but in fact Petersen is just not a good striker, Hunt is up and down, de Bruyne is their best player but also the only one who consistently shows drive, always when I wastched Arnautovic this season I was impressed, but bottom line is he still has only scored 3 goals or so. Junusovic also looks talented, but no one can score.

And as I said their defense is in shambles, and the defensive midfield does little to help them.

On talent alone they could probably reach the EL spots, but they somehow always ifnd a way to lose.
Thanks for the rundown!

Yeah, defense is a massive issue, and they need to bring in some talent there. CDM's are a crapshoot for them as well it seems.

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01-19-2013, 11:11 PM
  #466
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They don't really play with any defensive midfielders. Juno's a technical player who's impact is through his passing, like Gundogan, Badelj and Schweini. He's not going to protect the defense effectively, and next to him Hunt and De Bruyne aren't great defenders either. They cover a ton of ground, but can't clamp down in front of the backline either.

What they need is to move one of Hunt/DeBruyne to the wings and get a midfielder who can be part of their attacking style of play, but will give them some grit and better defensive cover. The backline would still be flimsy and Peterson would still be wasteful, but they wouldn't be so overwhelmed by top sides.

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01-20-2013, 12:21 PM
  #467
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It's a rule yes, but holding a flare isn't an act of violence or hooligansm. The current situation has been brought on by the inflexibility and rigidity of authorities. Flares are awesome. If you want to make their use safer, try to find arrangements with the fans with regards to their use but instead they criminalize the fans and start media campaigns againt them and then they act surprised when the fans get more aggressive.
If you want them to be used safer, then idiots like the Frankfurt ultras who constantly do what they did yesterday isn't the way to go about it. I'm fine with lighting some flares on occasion, but throwing them on the pitch is unacceptable, no matter the reason.That's just going to help the political ********, and makes your own club look stupid.

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01-22-2013, 07:48 PM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
It's a rule yes, but holding a flare isn't an act of violence or hooligansm. The current situation has been brought on by the inflexibility and rigidity of authorities. Flares are awesome. If you want to make their use safer, try to find arrangements with the fans with regards to their use but instead they criminalize the fans and start media campaigns againt them and then they act surprised when the fans get more aggressive.
Anyone who has witnessed Bundesliga football in the 90ies will have to agree with your first sentence. But it is not "the fans" who get more aggressive, only a small minority.

This faction - let's simplifiy it and call them Ultras - claim that the current use of flares is integral part of "football culture" and banning flares (and smoke bombs) would lead to boring games without the audience's proper participation. Anyone who has witnessed Bundesliga football in the 90ies will have to agree that this opinion is utterly stupid and borderline insane.

While I do not want to have the 90ies back and also do like the sight of flares, I understand that a certain risk is involved with the use of pyro equipment amidst large crowds; just recently, a flag of HSV fans caught fire in Düsseldorf. Therefore, it is not outlandish to restrict the use of flares.

Since UEFA, other federations and stupid politicians (like Federal Interior Minister Friedrich, who by the way is doubly incompetent with regard to these matters) actively seek to ban stands and alcohol in the arenas, intelligent fans should know which battle to pick. However, all the Ultra spokespersons do not accept any compromise in order to find ways for a safer use of flares and keep alive what "football culture" in Germany really is.

Obviously, both of us agree that some of the newly amended DFL security measures are questionable (particularly the first draft), that the media tends to treat minor infringements (e.g. flares or a peaceful pitch invasion like in Düsseldorf) as "riots" and that the "fan/football culture" is endangered by overly conservative minds in federations and public offices. The club Eintracht Frankfurt agrees as well and - after intense discussion with its fans - has produced a very detailed statement with regard to the failed first draft of the DFL security plan. Those Frankfurt Ultras, who shot fireworks on the pitch in Leverkusen, did not help their - and our - mutual cause at all.

Gruß,
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01-22-2013, 08:52 PM
  #469
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I think what happened to the Hamburg Ultras' Flag is not just hilarious, but also the best way to teach them a lesson about flare safety.

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01-23-2013, 02:49 PM
  #470
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People are easily manipulated, that's why politicians make it such an issue. Look at this thread and the reaction to a minor thing like that.
Yep. People here in Hannover who only read the paper but never go to games ask me how I can still go to 96 games. When I tell them that I have never felt unsafe and that there are even a lot of kids in the stadium they can hardly believe me.

Just watched the game that got us promoted to the 2. Bundesliga again, lots of flares and nobody was bothered...

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01-23-2013, 09:15 PM
  #471
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Lautern signs/about to sign Markus Karl from Union Berlin for around 100k, quite liked what I saw from him while playing at Union, good gain to play alongside Borysiuk in midfield. No surprise after Bah broke his leg and ankle in Training Camp. Just a shame we had to spend money on a new DM instead of getting Bah for free from Stuttgart.

Have a pretty damn good 2.BL squad now

Would bring us to 34 players, probably going to have to dump at least 5 players.

I'd bet one of Simunek/Abel, Azaouagh, Amri, Micanski and Nsor.

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01-24-2013, 10:41 AM
  #472
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Lautern signs/about to sign Markus Karl from Union Berlin for around 100k, quite liked what I saw from him while playing at Union, good gain to play alongside Borysiuk in midfield. No surprise after Bah broke his leg and ankle in Training Camp. Just a shame we had to spend money on a new DM instead of getting Bah for free from Stuttgart.

Have a pretty damn good 2.BL squad now

Would bring us to 34 players, probably going to have to dump at least 5 players.

I'd bet one of Simunek/Abel, Azaouagh, Amri, Micanski and Nsor.
BOOO. BOOO this ****. Karl is a great foil for Mattuschka for us. Would really suck to see him leave.

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01-24-2013, 11:22 AM
  #473
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BOOO. BOOO this ****. Karl is a great foil for Mattuschka for us. Would really suck to see him leave.
FCK already announced, 3.5 year contract through to June 2016, 100k transfer fee.

Feel sorry for Union, pretty impressed with how they've come on in recent years, they'll struggle to get a replacement at short notice for good price. But it's vital for FCK given 3 of our DM's are out with long term knee injuries (and the other ones like Azaouagh just suck) to get Karl, and was a pretty big bargain, probably would of cost at least 700k more if he had a longer contract IMO

Also on FCK, a guy on transfermarkt who broke a couple of transfers this window before a lot of news places says FCK looking to bring in Puuki for a 6/18 month loan with a potential buy option, this would make me very happy

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01-24-2013, 12:14 PM
  #474
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That really sucks. Luckily our youth team is kicking all sorts of ass, and Jopek and Quiring have been awesome, so hopefully we have someone step up. But god damn, Karl's been very good this year at getting the ball and making simple safe passes to get the ball to our attackers.

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01-24-2013, 09:38 PM
  #475
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I know one team is in the second division, but is there some animosity between Bayern fans and 1860 Munich fans?

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