HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gustav Nyquist

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-24-2013, 12:20 PM
  #76
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
For the first 2 periods Nyquist was playing on the 3rd line with Filppula. Based on Icetime the second line was Abdelkader, Cleary and Miller.
The second line has been a mess with Fil centering Bert and Mule. Then Bert went down and it's been in flux as there's no consistency or chemistry. I'd guess that combined with Abby's line being more of a shutdown line is the reason they received more ice time. We were giving up 4.5 goals a game before the Dallas game and held them to two goals.

It remains to be seen if Babcock will split up Pavs and Z and - if not - if he'll force the issue and have Datsyuk center the line. He's a much better center than Hank.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 12:39 PM
  #77
silkyjohnson50*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,183
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
The second line has been a mess with Fil centering Bert and Mule. Then Bert went down and it's been in flux as there's no consistency or chemistry. I'd guess that combined with Abby's line being more of a shutdown line is the reason they received more ice time. We were giving up 4.5 goals a game before the Dallas game and held them to two goals.

It remains to be seen if Babcock will split up Pavs and Z and - if not - if he'll force the issue and have Datsyuk center the line. He's a much better center than Hank.
Per Khan, they centered their own lines at practice today.

Datsyuk with Filppula and Bertuzzi on the wings and Zetterberg with Franzen and Brunner on the wings.

Thankfully Helm is back to center the 3rd line, which will make an immediate impact.

Even I might undervalue Helm's impact a little and I'm the guy who's called him our 5th most valuable forward. The fact is though, this team has been brutal to watch and painfully slow up front ever since he's been out of the lineup at the end of last year.

silkyjohnson50* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
  #78
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Per Khan, they centered their own lines at practice today.

Datsyuk with Filppula and Bertuzzi on the wings and Zetterberg with Franzen and Brunner on the wings.

Thankfully Helm is back to center the 3rd line, which will make an immediate impact.

Even I might undervalue Helm's impact a little and I'm the guy who's called him our 5th most valuable forward. The fact is though, this team has been brutal to watch and painfully slow up front ever since he's been out of the lineup at the end of last year.
That's good news. It can only help having Hank, Pav and Helmer center the top three lines. Now if only we could get our defensive pairings sorted out.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #79
LastWordArmy
HFB Partner
 
LastWordArmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,527
vCash: 500
I just don't get why we cant put Nyquist in the spot where Hudler played last year? Hank center and Filps wing with Nyquist. Throw Datsyuk, Franzen, Brunner on the first line. Let this play out. That is a sick top 6 if you ask me. Hudler had a career year last season and there is no way he is better than Nyquist.

LastWordArmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 12:52 PM
  #80
Jurky
The Human Genius
 
Jurky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,370
vCash: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
I just don't get why we cant put Nyquist in the spot where Hudler played last year? Hank center and Filps wing with Nyquist. Throw Datsyuk, Franzen, Brunner on the first line. Let this play out. That is a sick top 6 if you ask me. Hudler had a career year last season and there is no way he is better than Nyquist.
Careful, you're going to upset Eva

Jurky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 03:26 PM
  #81
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
I just don't get why we cant put Nyquist in the spot where Hudler played last year? Hank center and Filps wing with Nyquist. Throw Datsyuk, Franzen, Brunner on the first line. Let this play out. That is a sick top 6 if you ask me. Hudler had a career year last season and there is no way he is better than Nyquist.
Because Hudler couldn't be sent down to Grand Rapids last year.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:09 PM
  #82
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
Hudler had a career year last season and there is no way he is better than Nyquist.
No he didn't. And while Nyquist might be the better player two, three, or maybe five seasons from now... Hudler is better right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
Careful, you're going to upset Eva
Do you think Nyquist is a legitimate top-six forward right now if he's inserted into the lineup? Do you think he's potential first-line material?

Because here are some facts for you.

Jiri Hudler was 63rd in even-strength scoring among forwards last season. That ranks him as a top-line (top-90) forward.

Hudler finished 91st in total forward scoring with 50 points. He would have almost certainly been in the top-90 (87th through 90th was 51 points) had he played forward on the PP the entire season instead of spending most of the year on the point.

Is Nyquist at that level right now, today?

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #83
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,494
vCash: 500
I used to defend Hudler as he was more useful than his whipping boy status. I will admit since he left I see no point in defending him to that degree anymore and I am not sad that he is gone. I have always seen him as a Koslov or Ray Whitney type who should put up a lot of points on a bad team. But he does very little to impact the game in a meaningful way and he has done almost none of that when his contract status was not on the line. Calgary is a good situation whenever he starts playing to put up points and be a fake awesome player. He was not going to get an opportunity in Detroit for various factors, this playing out the way it has in the long run is probably a very good thing for Jiri.

The fact is Hudler because of size and skating never turned into quite the player he could be. Nyquist is certainly a more complete player and has higher upside. His defensive awareness and skating will be a huge difference. Hudler has a little better hockey IQ, but his ability to make use of it has pitfalls in that often you can tell he sees the play and is outmuscled or simply cannot get there. Nyquist's slippery nature will allow him to continue to do many of the things he attempts and his speed will open certain things up to him.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:26 PM
  #84
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
No Soup for You!!!
 
SoupNazi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kramerica Industries
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,565
vCash: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
The fact is Hudler because of size and skating never turned into quite the player he could be. Nyquist is certainly a more complete player and has higher upside. His defensive awareness and skating will be a huge difference. Hudler has a little better hockey IQ, but his ability to make use of it has pitfalls in that often you can tell he sees the play and is outmuscled or simply cannot get there. Nyquist's slippery nature will allow him to continue to do many of the things he attempts and his speed will open certain things up to him.
Hudler is gone. I hope we aren't going to fight over him for the next four years the way we do Hossa.

SoupNazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:41 PM
  #85
ricky0034
Registered User
 
ricky0034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I used to defend Hudler as he was more useful than his whipping boy status. I will admit since he left I see no point in defending him to that degree anymore and I am not sad that he is gone. I have always seen him as a Koslov or Ray Whitney type who should put up a lot of points on a bad team. But he does very little to impact the game in a meaningful way and he has done almost none of that when his contract status was not on the line. Calgary is a good situation whenever he starts playing to put up points and be a fake awesome player. He was not going to get an opportunity in Detroit for various factors, this playing out the way it has in the long run is probably a very good thing for Jiri.

The fact is Hudler because of size and skating never turned into quite the player he could be. Nyquist is certainly a more complete player and has higher upside. His defensive awareness and skating will be a huge difference. Hudler has a little better hockey IQ, but his ability to make use of it has pitfalls in that often you can tell he sees the play and is outmuscled or simply cannot get there. Nyquist's slippery nature will allow him to continue to do many of the things he attempts and his speed will open certain things up to him.
why do people always say this? I guess context doesn't exist when it comes to Hudler bashing

he was improving every year then after his contract year he went to the KHL for a year

then he comes back and surprise surprise it takes him a year to adjust back to being in the NHL

then hey look what do you know it's a contract year again!

and people overrate other things in forwards and underrate actual offense

putting up points isn't meaningful? really?

Hudler is a good hockey player,it's amazing the mental gymnastics people go through to avoid admitting that

ricky0034 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:43 PM
  #86
Bench
Moderator
Coffee. Pie. Owls.
 
Bench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Twin Peaks
Posts: 9,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Hudler is gone. I hope we aren't going to fight over him for the next four years the way we do Hossa.
July 1, 2009. Never forget.

Bench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #87
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
why do people always say this? I guess context doesn't exist when it comes to Hudler bashing

he was improving every year then after his contract year he went to the KHL for a year

then he comes back and surprise surprise it takes him a year to adjust back to being in the NHL

then hey look what do you know it's a contract year again!

and people overrate other things in forwards and underrate actual offense

putting up points isn't meaningful? really?

Hudler is a good hockey player,it's amazing the mental gymnastics people go through to avoid admitting that
Why do people say it, I don't know maybe because his two best years are contract years. Where he paid the price to get inside and did things he didn't do at near the same rate in non-contract years.

Putting up points has value. But there is a how and why to pay attention to. I have no doubt when given 1st line minutes and 1st PP time at forward Hudler's would spike. But he doesn't get them on teams that have better options and make no mistake the Wings have better options still this very day over Hudler.

The reason I bring up Whitney and Koslov is they showed in a very similar way. They couldn't displace guys on superior rosters and they shouldn't have. But every team scores a certain number of goals and when you get them on teams where they become options there point totals pick up accordingly. It does however generally mean the team itself is not great. They fit certain situations quite well. That doesn't mean they don't help contenders, it just means there most damaging years have generally come with little other options in the lineup. It is not unlike some of the NBA guys that put up huge numbers on dogs every year.

I don't hate Hudler, he has a nice hockey sense and skill set from the other teams blueline in. He could shoot more, but I have never found his game particularly lacking there. What I have noticed is that in both of his contract years as mentioned before he seemed to find his way into the tough areas at a much higher rate. Make of that what you will, but in all sports there are guys that have terrific contract seasons for whatever reason, most of us attribute that to getting paid. We might get a chance to find out when he comes back just how true to form that is. Once is an accident, twice is a trend, three times is an outright label.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
  #88
ricky0034
Registered User
 
ricky0034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,881
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Why do people say it, I don't know maybe because his two best years are contract years. Where he paid the price to get inside and did things he didn't do at near the same rate in non-contract years.

Putting up points has value. But there is a how and why to pay attention to. I have no doubt when given 1st line minutes and 1st PP time at forward Hudler's would spike. But he doesn't get them on teams that have better options and make no mistake the Wings have better options still this very day over Hudler.

The reason I bring up Whitney and Koslov is they showed in a very similar way. They couldn't displace guys on superior rosters and they shouldn't have. But every team scores a certain number of goals and when you get them on teams where they become options there point totals pick up accordingly. It does however generally mean the team itself is not great. They fit certain situations quite well. That doesn't mean they don't help contenders, it just means there most damaging years have generally come with little other options in the lineup. It is not unlike some of the NBA guys that put up huge numbers on dogs every year.

I don't hate Hudler, he has a nice hockey sense and skill set from the other teams blueline in. He could shoot more, but I have never found his game particularly lacking there. What I have noticed is that in both of his contract years as mentioned before he seemed to find his way into the tough areas at a much higher rate. Make of that what you will, but in all sports there are guys that have terrific contract seasons for whatever reason, most of us attribute that to getting paid. We might get a chance to find out when he comes back just how true to form that is. Once is an accident, twice is a trend, three times is an outright label.
the contract year thing just isn't even worth mentioning unless you're looking for negative things to say,there's some very good alternative explanations for it

and just pointing these out but last year Hudler was 6th on the Wings among forwards in ice time with 15:40/game,he was also 6th among forwards in powerplay time with 2:14/game

40 of his 50 points(23 of his 25 goals) were at even strength

he actually lead the team in even strength goals by 4 which is as big as the gap between 2nd and 5th and only one smaller than the gap between 2nd and 7th

Hudler was 24th in the entire NHL in even strength goals last year and was only 2 behind 8th

how and why indeed

ricky0034 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 08:29 PM
  #89
DatsyukianDeke*
Dangle Dangle
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Hudler is one dimensional and sucks. End of story.

DatsyukianDeke* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 08:32 PM
  #90
Frk It
Thanks for Green!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 14,683
vCash: 500
This isn't a ****ing Hudler thread, let's talk about Nyquist people. Nyquist could skate circles around that little ****, and probably whoop his ass too.

Frk It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 08:37 PM
  #91
The Nose
Registered User
 
The Nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 8,231
vCash: 500
Well I'm completely pissed at the way Babcock has been using Nyquist. Nyquist plays average is demoted for Cleary who literally has no business being on the ice at all.

The Nose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 09:23 PM
  #92
RedMenace
100% Less Babcock
 
RedMenace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In the Tubes
Country: United States
Posts: 4,335
vCash: 500
We seriously need that "Hudler" heading for this thread (still waiting on that one, mods. ).

Just caught up on last night's Griffins game, and man, did Nyquist look totally out of sorts... like he's depressed or something. I really hope he's not down on Detroit; he's too good of a forward prospect to let slip away.

RedMenace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 09:48 PM
  #93
Big Poppa Puck
Bring back JTG!
 
Big Poppa Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 16,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
We seriously need that "Hudler" heading for this thread (still waiting on that one, mods. ).
We haven't used the Quincey heading enough.

Where's the "Quincey: Sucks!" thread?

Big Poppa Puck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 09:53 PM
  #94
The Nose
Registered User
 
The Nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 8,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
We seriously need that "Hudler" heading for this thread (still waiting on that one, mods. ).

Just caught up on last night's Griffins game, and man, did Nyquist look totally out of sorts... like he's depressed or something. I really hope he's not down on Detroit; he's too good of a forward prospect to let slip away.
Thats what you risk when you manage your prospects the way Detroit does. Tatar is fairly close to parting to the KHL for gods sake. Man I would demand a trade if I were these guys and I would hate being drafted by the Wings.

The Nose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
  #95
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Thats what you risk when you manage your prospects the way Detroit does. Tatar is fairly close to parting to the KHL for gods sake. Man I would demand a trade if I were these guys and I would hate being drafted by the Wings.
They have to think long term. When they are in their mid 30s and no one else wants them Kenny will still have a ***** for them and will sign them to keep our younger prospects out of the NHL. That's the only way to explain why we have a current thread on who we should draft in 2103.

Run the Jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
  #96
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
I just don't get why we cant put Nyquist in the spot where Hudler played last year? Hank center and Filps wing with Nyquist. Throw Datsyuk, Franzen, Brunner on the first line. Let this play out. That is a sick top 6 if you ask me. Hudler had a career year last season and there is no way he is better than Nyquist.
The way people underrate Hudler is just incredible.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 10:02 PM
  #97
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Big surprise.

When Hudler played with top 6 linemates, he produced like a top sixer.

Hudler had physical limitations. So did Holmstrom.

So do other Red Wings forwards. I don't have a really hard time with Hudler being moved because Babcock didn't like him, so why not move him somewhere where he can succeed?

But this guy produced here. And even when he sucked two years ago, when he played regular minutes with Datsyuk, he was a good producer.


Last edited by RedWingsNow*: 01-24-2013 at 10:36 PM.
RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 10:12 PM
  #98
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Thats what you risk when you manage your prospects the way Detroit does. Tatar is fairly close to parting to the KHL for gods sake. Man I would demand a trade if I were these guys and I would hate being drafted by the Wings.
Nowhere has Tatar EVER stated that he was going to bolt for the KHL. EVER. If you're going to hate on Wings management, make it rational please. This is getting way over the top.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 10:34 PM
  #99
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Nowhere has Tatar EVER stated that he was going to bolt for the KHL. EVER. If you're going to hate on Wings management, make it rational please. This is getting way over the top.
He has talked about it, he wants to give the NHL a shot first. But big news overlooked during the lockout is Lev bought his KHL right from SKA. The GM that made the trade.

Quote:
Tatar has two years left to run on his entry-level NHL contract and Sejejs said Lev could make an approach next season.

“Maybe we’ll talk about it next season, who knows,”
http://en.rian.ru/sports/20121101/177119807.html

They haven't talked to him but he also made it clear he would rather be in the KHL than AHL during the last lockout during a photo shoot that they quickly did pr clean up afterwards.

Tatar himself:

Quote:
"This is my fourth year here and I really like it here, but you start to look at your future," said the 22-year-old forward who is skating with the Wings' affiliate, the Grand Rapids Griffins. "I've been close, but we'll see. I'll give it a couple more years to make the Red Wings. If not, I have interest going with the KHL, so we'll see what happens."
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/articles...t-on-mlive-com

So he wants to give it a chance but if he doesn't feel he is getting a fair shake, he will leave. Do you think we are giving him a fair shake?

The Tatar to the KHL thoughts are very real and he has brought it up himself so care to rephrase that EVER?

Lucky for us Nyquist doesn't have similar options to our knowledge. But I understand Tatar's concerns he has worked on every part of his game they have asked him to. He has to be concerned when he was just the offense only guy he got his cup of tea, now he is a significantly better player and he doesn't seem to be all that close to be considered.

The Zetterberg Era is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 10:38 PM
  #100
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
He has talked about it, he wants to give the NHL a shot first. But big news overlooked during the lockout is Lev bought his KHL right from SKA. The GM that made the trade.



http://en.rian.ru/sports/20121101/177119807.html

They haven't talked to him but he also made it clear he would rather be in the KHL than AHL during the last lockout during a photo shoot that they quickly did pr clean up afterwards.

Tatar himself:



http://www.thescore.com/nhl/articles...t-on-mlive-com

So he wants to give it a chance but if he doesn't feel he is getting a fair shake, he will leave. Do you think we are giving him a fair shake?

The Tatar to the KHL thoughts are very real and he has brought it up himself so care to rephrase that EVER?
You're reading too much into this. Tatar has a spot on the lineup next year. He has his fair shake. This is far from the "ZOMG HE"S GONNA BOLT!!!!1111one!!!1one!" This is more like "Who knows? I don't. We'll see when that bridge has to be crossed. If the KHL gives me the better chance, then so be it." But the KHL isn't going to give him the better chance. You're freaking out over nothing.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.