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Old
01-24-2013, 09:55 PM
  #101
CerebralGenesis
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Ya we can't trade Greene unless Anaheim clamors for him and a pick and scrub for Perry/Ryan.

But I dunno if Lou is gonna end up moving a body. Probably wait for Henrique to return and then wait for the 10 game mark he was talking about.

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01-24-2013, 10:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I think Greene would be the hardest to replace. Fayne is by no means untouchable for a good return, but to me Greene is.
Maybe I'm underestimating his worth, but...

I wouldn't use 'untouchable' in the same sentence as Andy Greene.

He missed 26 games last year... did we miss him?

He was -23 the year before. Fayne/Salvador/Volchenkov were all +s..

I like the guy, and his game has improved, but I loved Oduya too and I was happy with what we got back...

If Greene + Tedenby nets us a rental Benn/Getzlaf/Perry, I could be on board with that.

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01-24-2013, 10:03 PM
  #103
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Greene-Fayne may turn out to be a top defensive pairing we never knew we had.

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01-24-2013, 10:03 PM
  #104
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using +/- in that Maclean year is simply silly

and Greene is WAY better than oduya ever was or ever will be

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01-24-2013, 10:06 PM
  #105
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We did miss Greene last year when he was injured. We went on that 9-1-1 stretch or whatever it was last year starting with his first game back.

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01-24-2013, 10:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
Maybe I'm underestimating his worth, but...

I wouldn't use 'untouchable' in the same sentence as Andy Greene.

He missed 26 games last year... did we miss him?

He was -23 the year before. Fayne/Salvador/Volchenkov were all +s..

I like the guy, and his game has improved, but I loved Oduya too and I was happy with what we got back...

If Greene + Tedenby nets us a rental Benn/Getzlaf/Perry, I could be on board with that.
Exactly my thoughts on what will happen, something of this calibur. I feel Lou has something big on the way.

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01-24-2013, 10:13 PM
  #107
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I would only want Greene gone for massive overpayment. I'd sooner part with Fayne. I wouldn't rule Fayne out to be traded, but I'd say if he is you'll probably see him dealt for something or someone significant.

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01-24-2013, 10:15 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan44 View Post
Exactly my thoughts on what will happen, something of this calibur. I feel Lou has something big on the way.
No way in hell Greene and Tedenby fetch us that caliber of a player unless we tack on Severson, Merrill, Matteau or Boucher and a first round pick.

We can't afford to give up any of those guys or that first round pick. Lou has to settle for the Stepniaks and Ponikarovskis of the world. Unfortunately, there are no more Don Waddell's for Lou to scam the **** out of.

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01-24-2013, 10:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
using +/- in that Maclean year is simply silly

and Greene is WAY better than oduya ever was or ever will be

You have no way to quantify those statements...(points, +/-, corsi) but hey, that's fine. The guy is playing top pairing with us, and he's doing a great job defensively with Fayne. I would keep all of our Dmen if we could because they all bring something to the table.

You got to give to get, and if we need offense, then it's got to come from outside the organization.

If the goal is to make a cup run this year (and Lou thinks we have enough offense), we just keep the D corp together. If the goal is to plan for the future, we need to bring in a young, highly talented winger and the only way to do that is by shipping off a Dman.

If we go by trade value it's Larsson/Greene/Fayne.
If we go by contract value, it's Volch/Tallinder/Greene.

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01-24-2013, 10:18 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
No way in hell Greene and Tedenby fetch us that caliber of a player unless we tack on Severson, Merrill, Matteau or Boucher and a first round pick.

We can't afford to give up any of those guys or that first round pick. Lou has to settle for the Stepniaks and Ponikarovskis of the world. Unfortunately, there are no more Don Waddell's for Lou to scam the **** out of.
UFAs though, man. If you told me that Kovy was coming for Oduya+Bergfors and a bag of pucks....

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01-24-2013, 10:20 PM
  #111
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Greene and Fayne aren't going anywhere. Fayne maybe our best defenseman and he is under contract for the next two seasons at 1.3 million. Greene just signed a contract with the team. Lou isn't going to sign him this off-season knowing exactly how many NHL Defenseman we have to just trade him 10 games in the season.

Tallinder is playing the least about of minutes on the defensive unit - 15:38. If anyone gets trade it will be Tallinder and we probalby won't get as much as we want in return.

But I am leaning towards Lou just keeping all of them. Injuries always happen.

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01-24-2013, 10:20 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Moe Syzlak View Post
Not sure why people are all for trading Volchenkov? He's the only guy on the team who can body check.
Yeah, the one time every two weeks where someone randomly skates in front of him and he can hit without having to use his 'great' foot speed to try and catch someone.

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01-24-2013, 10:23 PM
  #113
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volch is the only guy on the team that hits?

um, ok?

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01-24-2013, 10:23 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
Greene and Fayne aren't going anywhere. Fayne maybe our best defenseman and he is under contract for the next two seasons at 1.3 million. Greene just signed a contract with the team. Lou isn't going to sign him this off-season knowing exactly how many NHL Defenseman we have to just trade him 10 games in the season.

Tallinder is playing the least about of minutes on the defensive unit - 15:38. If anyone gets trade it will be Tallinder and we probalby won't get as much as we want in return.

But I am leaning towards Lou just keeping all of them. Injuries always happen.
What happens if we need offense? I love CBGB but not sure how much longer we can get by with that as our THIRD line.

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01-24-2013, 10:23 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
Greene and Fayne aren't going anywhere. Fayne maybe our best defenseman and he is under contract for the next two seasons at 1.3 million. Greene just signed a contract with the team. Lou isn't going to sign him this off-season knowing exactly how many NHL Defenseman we have to just trade him 10 games in the season.

Tallinder is playing the least about of minutes on the defensive unit - 15:38. If anyone gets trade it will be Tallinder and we probalby won't get as much as we want in return.

But I am leaning towards Lou just keeping all of them. Injuries always happen.
Greene signed last off-season. But I don't see Lou trading him anyway, especially after he was loyal and supposedly took less money to stay. Not to mention the role he plays and his contract makes him the least tradeable other than Fayne (not counting Larsson, who's got a different kind of value).

It would be moronic to keep all of them. Yeah injuries happen, and what happens if there's even one or two up front?! Even with a trade we can survive one, even two injuries on defense. As it is we're struggling up front though, if Zajac went down THIS year, forget it.

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01-24-2013, 10:26 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
volch is the only guy on the team that hits?

um, ok?
I assumed he meant on defense (and I was being partially sarcastic anyway). We certainly have forwards that can hit. Defense, we don't really have a lot of guys that hit. Sal plays physical but I can't remember the last time he just crunched a guy on the boards or in open-ice, mainly because he's slower than dirt too. Zidlicky will do it occasionally, but it's not his game either.

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01-24-2013, 10:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
What happens if we need offense? I love CBGB but not sure how much longer we can get by with that as our THIRD line.
We are missing our 2nd line center with Henrique. I think once he comes back we are fine in the scoring department.

Teddy - Zajac - Kovy
Elias - Henrique - Clarkson
Zubrus - Yayo - Goon/Darche/Kovy
CBGB

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01-24-2013, 10:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
Greene and Fayne aren't going anywhere. Fayne maybe our best defenseman and he is under contract for the next two seasons at 1.3 million. Greene just signed a contract with the team. Lou isn't going to sign him this off-season knowing exactly how many NHL Defenseman we have to just trade him 10 games in the season.

Tallinder is playing the least about of minutes on the defensive unit - 15:38. If anyone gets trade it will be Tallinder and we probalby won't get as much as we want in return.

But I am leaning towards Lou just keeping all of them. Injuries always happen.
Greene is on his 2nd year of a 4yr deal. They just signed Salvador. In any case, Lou has signed and dealt defensemen before - particularly if their trade value is at their peak and they have a decent cap hit ($3m).

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01-24-2013, 10:30 PM
  #119
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UFAs though, man. If you told me that Kovy was coming for Oduya+Bergfors and a bag of pucks....
Looking back on it, it was a terrible deal. At the time, the deal looked like:

A youngish 3/4 defenseman who had a hell of a year prior and was struggling.
A young NHL sniper who had a solid start to the season before fading off.
A gritty 3C in the making who has all the intangibles
A first round pick.

At the time, the trade was a nice on for Atlanta. The pieces they got were all quality pieces, each one had their doubts and their struggles but that deal had the potential to work out amazingly for them. Unfortunately, it didn't.

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01-24-2013, 10:31 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
I assumed he meant on defense (and I was being partially sarcastic anyway). We certainly have forwards that can hit. Defense, we don't really have a lot of guys that hit. Sal plays physical but I can't remember the last time he just crunched a guy on the boards or in open-ice. Zidlicky will do it occasionally, but it's not his game either.
Talbot last game?

Sal normally doesn't have big crushing hits, he is more of the out muscle and stop guys kind of physical

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01-24-2013, 10:32 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
We are missing our 2nd line center with Henrique. I think once he comes back we are fine in the scoring department.

Teddy - Zajac - Kovy
Elias - Henrique - Clarkson
Zubrus - Yayo - Goon/Darche/Kovy
CBGB
That assumes that Teddy isn't -50 by game 24, Clarkie keeps potting them and Yayo doesn't get hit by a kitten teardrop or butterfly wing.

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01-24-2013, 10:33 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
You have no way to quantify those statements...(points, +/-, corsi) but hey, that's fine. The guy is playing top pairing with us, and he's doing a great job defensively with Fayne. I would keep all of our Dmen if we could because they all bring something to the table.

You got to give to get, and if we need offense, then it's got to come from outside the organization.

If the goal is to make a cup run this year (and Lou thinks we have enough offense), we just keep the D corp together. If the goal is to plan for the future, we need to bring in a young, highly talented winger and the only way to do that is by shipping off a Dman.

If we go by trade value it's Larsson/Greene/Fayne.
If we go by contract value, it's Volch/Tallinder/Greene.
You can put whatever you want into all the advanced statistics, the best way to judge a player is to watch him play. When you watch Greene and Fayne play, you watch them play a solid all-around game with very little mistakes. They shutdown opposing top lines like they've been doing it since they were kids.

The statistics are good to justify things, but by no means do they tell the entire story, or the right one. There's no stats for great defensive plays, there's no stats for diving poke checks on breakaways, you get the point.

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01-24-2013, 10:33 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Greene signed last off-season. But I don't see Lou trading him anyway, especially after he was loyal and supposedly took less money to stay. Not to mention the role he plays and his contract makes him the least tradeable other than Fayne (not counting Larsson, who's got a different kind of value).

It would be moronic to keep all of them. Yeah injuries happen, and what happens if there's even one or two up front?! Even with a trade we can survive one, even two injuries on defense. As it is we're struggling up front though, if Zajac went down THIS year, forget it.
I think you guys are worrying about a bad forward lineup that doesn't exist. Why is it moronic?

Last season only 2 Defenseman played 82 (Fayne/Salvador).
Volchenkvo 72
Greene 56
Tallinder 39
Zidlicky played 63 last year and 46 the year before.

Larsson is going to get 35+ NHL games this year. And he has already played 33 in the AHL. So he still has a chance to play more games than last years 65.

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01-24-2013, 10:34 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
We are missing our 2nd line center with Henrique. I think once he comes back we are fine in the scoring department.

Teddy - Zajac - Kovy
Elias - Henrique - Clarkson
Zubrus - Yayo - Goon/Darche/Kovy
CBGB
What has anyone seen from Tedenby that after 100 NHL games of not scoring, other than one brief spurt (and less than big numbers in the AHL) that he's going to hold down a top six spot? ****, Matteau's more likely to be a top six contributor and I don't want him on the club for a full season either. I like Josefson, but he hasn't exactly shown he can score in the NHL either.

They're not fine, and they're not going to go through a whole season injury-free either. Funny how people always worry about injuries on defense when we're at least two away from crisis mode, even after a trade on defense...but we're one away from crisis mode on offense without a trade. Especially with our lack of depth up front in Albany compared to the depth on defense there.

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01-24-2013, 10:37 PM
  #125
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Matt Anderson, Pesonen, and Joe Whitney are fine with that.

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