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Rangers @ Flyers | 1/24/13 : Kill Me Now!

View Poll Results: 3 Stars of the Game
Biron/Kreider/Asham 42 31.11%
Lundqvist 65 48.15%
Girardi 1 0.74%
Staal 11 8.15%
McDonagh 4 2.96%
Del Zotto 3 2.22%
Eminger 0 0%
Stralman 2 1.48%
Rupp 1 0.74%
Bickel 5 3.70%
Newbury 3 2.22%
Boyle 0 0%
Pyatt 58 42.96%
Hagelin 4 2.96%
Stepan 0 0%
Richards 1 0.74%
Callahan 1 0.74%
Nash 5 3.70%
Gaborik 7 5.19%
The Guys Who didn't Play 70 51.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-24-2013, 10:18 PM
  #201
trilobyte
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Originally Posted by Conine View Post
This team just isn't very good. When you are forced to play guys like Newbury and Bickel 4 games into the season, without an injury forcing them into the lineup, you have huge problems.

Imagine if this team sustained an injury? The season would be over. Embarrassing job by management putting this team together in the off season. A team that was so close to the Finals last year, now has AHL fodder playing the bottom two lines.
There is hardly ever a good reason to bring up Newbury. I have nothing against the guy, except in a Rangers jersey.

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01-24-2013, 10:25 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Asham was injured tonight.
That's really nitpicking considering that Bickel, Newbury, and Rupp all dressed as forwards for us tonight. The point stands. We lack depth. Boyle looks awful too. He's right back to the non-entity he was before his hot streak late last year.

I want to see Kreider get a real shot. They should just put him in the top six, tell him to be hard on the puck and aggressive, and let him learn as he goes. I can live with some rookie mistakes if they can get him producing.


Last edited by Zil: 01-24-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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01-24-2013, 10:32 PM
  #203
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Still optimistic but what I truly think this team needs is a big, puck possession forward to play third line minutes (ala Dustin Penner) with Boyle and Pyatt. We need to have a bottom six that can be effective, score goals when needed, and be strong defensively. Kreider isn't ready for that role yet and Hagelin doesn't fit into that spot. Ideally, if we were able to acquire someone like Penner at the deadline (not actually Penner, doubt LA moves him) we could roll out something like this

Nash Richards Gaborik
Hagelin Stepan Callahan
(Acquisition) Boyle Pyatt
Asham Halpern Ferreiro (yes, I think we use him)

Rupp as extra F and Kreider to Connecticut for some
seasoning.

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01-24-2013, 10:36 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
That's really nitpicking considering that Bickel, Newbury, and Rupp all dressed as forward for us tonight. The point stands. We lack depth. Boyle looks awful too. He's right back to the non-entity he was before his hot streak late last year.

I want to see Kreider get a real shot. They should just put him in the top six, tell him to be hard on the puck and aggressive, and let him learn as he goes. I can live with some rookie mistakes if they can get him producing.
we can't afford to give him ice down 1-3 in a 48 game season. he'll get a LOT more ice time in the ahl and any mistakes he makes he is going to have time to fix. they're trying their best not to break this kid. i agree i'd like to see what he can do with nash, but it's not happening now.

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01-24-2013, 10:36 PM
  #205
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Really wish Fast and Lindberg were available to utilize right now.

No one else in Hartford, other than Miller and Hrivik (who is out with a concussion) deserves a recall.

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01-24-2013, 10:37 PM
  #206
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too soon for miller still? not worth the risk?

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01-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #207
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Sort of OT. Just my opinion, and I have seen enough Rangers this season to comment about that: You were better off without the Nash deal. Nothing on Nash, but when I saw Rangers in 2012 playoffs, to me guys like Anisimov played their role just about fine. And I know what Nash can do, or has already done in short career with Rangers.

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01-24-2013, 10:40 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Sort of OT. Just my opinion, and I have seen enough Rangers this season to comment about that: You were better off without the Nash deal. Nothing on Nash, but when I saw Rangers in 2012 playoffs, to me guys like Anisimov played their role just about fine. And I know what Nash can do, or has already done in short career with Rangers.
This could certainly be true.

No way to tell four games into the season, though.

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01-24-2013, 10:48 PM
  #209
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Girardi and Staal - MIA

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01-24-2013, 10:48 PM
  #210
Zil
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we can't afford to give him ice down 1-3 in a 48 game season. he'll get a LOT more ice time in the ahl and any mistakes he makes he is going to have time to fix. they're trying their best not to break this kid. i agree i'd like to see what he can do with nash, but it's not happening now.
The guys we've been giving ice to have been messing up anyway. We're icing lineups with some combination of Bickel, Newbury, Rupp, Asham, Halpern, and Boyle. None of those guys have a prayer to score. Hagelin has looked like ******* at both ends of the ice too. We can afford giving Kreider a real shot in a game or two to see how he looks.

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01-24-2013, 10:49 PM
  #211
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Seriously - can any D man HIT THE NET on ANY SHOT?

Can any D man or Center - CLEAR THE SHOOTING LANE in front of Henrik?!?!?!?

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01-24-2013, 10:50 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Sort of OT. Just my opinion, and I have seen enough Rangers this season to comment about that: You were better off without the Nash deal. Nothing on Nash, but when I saw Rangers in 2012 playoffs, to me guys like Anisimov played their role just about fine. And I know what Nash can do, or has already done in short career with Rangers.
I'm afraid this is likely true.

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01-24-2013, 10:54 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Really wish Fast and Lindberg were available to utilize right now.

No one else in Hartford, other than Miller and Hrivik (who is out with a concussion) deserves a recall.

I agree, it's too bad that Fasth/Lindberg can't be brought here and Miller isn't ready..so bringing him up would be unfair.

This team absolutely MUST sign Jason Arnott. I know he's old but he is versatile and in a short season you need his experience/skill set.

Also, Dom Moore if he wants to play hockey or Dvorak should be brought in to add something to the bottom six.

If your team is dressing Bickell/Rupp/Asham/Newburry as 1/3 of your forward core, you're not going anywhere, not even an 8th seed. Some of those awful Esposito-era Rangers teams had a better bottom six than what this version has now which is sad.

The problem is that this is the one year gap between the Rangers bringing in a bunch more kids. Next year Fasth/Lindberg/Miller/St. Croix probably Noreau, Ceresnak and maybe even Myles Bell, Sjustr, or Brock Beukeboom will all be available. This year there's no depth in the system and it's a short season so not much is available.

The Flyers just brought back Mike Knuble...the Rangers should have no shame in offering Arnott or Dvorak a contract.

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01-24-2013, 10:58 PM
  #214
trilobyte
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Sort of OT. Just my opinion, and I have seen enough Rangers this season to comment about that: You were better off without the Nash deal. Nothing on Nash, but when I saw Rangers in 2012 playoffs, to me guys like Anisimov played their role just about fine. And I know what Nash can do, or has already done in short career with Rangers.
The team also hit a scoring drought in the playoffs. I am for the Nash acquisition, though I really am cognizant of the loss of the guys you mention, and for me, especially Anisimov.

However, I like the trade. Teams have to grow, and it's just really bad timing that the lockout had to suck half a season away.

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01-24-2013, 10:58 PM
  #215
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Man...DW's Cally picture is still haunting me.


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01-24-2013, 11:03 PM
  #216
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Team probably overachieved last year - great goaltending, tight team defense, win 2-1. This year they're unhderachieving. I know it is only 4 games, but they looked like they're skating in mud. Don't like the line combinations, Hagelin is in a sophomore slump as teams figure out just control his speed, doesn't bring much else right now (I do like him long-term). Stepan looks awful, bottom six is pathetic except for Pyatt.

That said, I'd rather struggle at the beginning and come on late, than the opposite. Also, schedule to start the season is tough, and I think they will do much better against the Devils and Islanders later on.

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01-24-2013, 11:05 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
The team also hit a scoring drought in the playoffs. I am for the Nash acquisition, though I really am cognizant of the loss of the guys you mention, and for me, especially Anisimov.

However, I like the trade. Teams have to grow, and it's just really bad timing that the lockout had to suck half a season away.
I said this in the Forward Depth thread, but I think it's worth a mention here:

I've had this in the back of my mind for a while, but I don't think trading for Nash was a smart move as far as the makeup of our roster is concerned.

While the move was really good purely from an asset value standpoint, the impact of losing both Anisimov and Dubinsky means that we were relying heavily on Kreider to be playing the way he did during his playoff run. If he faltered (as he has), our depth instantly becomes suspect, especially on the LW. Losing those 2 also made our lineup very inflexible through the bottom 6.

Nash will be a good player for us, he's the real deal. Purely from a asset value perspective, we won that trade.

But this lineup:

Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Pyatt
Rupp/Asham - Halpern - Boyle

Is superior to what we have now in my opinion.

While some could argue that 2nd/3rd line talent is easier to come by and thus replace than 1st line talent, even without Nash we weren't exactly starved for 1st line talent, with Richards and Gaborik already on the team. Further, remembering back, what killed us in the playoffs insofar as our forward corps was primarily a lack of depth scoring in the bottom 6 (as well as Gaborik playing with 1 arm).

Stars provide the fuel for playoff success, but lineup depth is the engine that wins the championship. With the Nash trade, we've got 4 big barrels full of high octane fuel with Nash, Richards, Gaborik and Lundqvist, but now we've only got a Toyota Camry engine to put it in.

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01-24-2013, 11:07 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Really wish Fast and Lindberg were available to utilize right now.

No one else in Hartford, other than Miller and Hrivik (who is out with a concussion) deserves a recall.
Can Fast and Lindberg be brought up after the SEL season is over?

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01-24-2013, 11:10 PM
  #219
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Can Fast and Lindberg be brought up after the SEL season is over?
Yes Sir

http://snyrangersblog.com/prospects/...m-this-season/

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01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
  #220
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Thanks. Hopefully by then the Rangers aren't out of playoff contention. The way they're playing now that wouldn't surprise me. They have to step their game up infinitely.

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01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
  #221
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Our bottom six is pretty much a patchwork quilt with no real design to it. That's a big problem in my opinion. We haven't built a lineup. We've acquired and developed good pieces, but I don't see any evidence of any plan as to how it all fits. The top six, at least, there are a bunch of combinations that mostly use the same pieces and overall, all of the options are solid enough that something has to click or hot stretches have to be found, but the bottom six in particular has no purpose or defined structure. What kind of line is Kreider, Boyle, Pyatt? What kind of line is Boyle, Rupp, Pyatt? I like Pyatt but I'm not sure why we brought him in, when I think about it. Why didn't we go for someone specifically geared to be in a third line shutdown role?

I think it could well turn up true that we were better off without Nash, even though I think Nash has been our best player most of the time this season.

Pyatt/Kreider - Richards - Gaborik
Hagelin - Stepan - Callahan
Dubinsky - Anisimov - Kreider/Pyatt
Rupp - Boyle - Asham

I'm not sure if the difference in the quality of that bottom six over what we have now is worth Nash or not. Hopefully things click, but we are more top heavy than ever. Meanwhile, our defense seems really rusty. And there's a huge possibility that Hagelin and Callahan both over performed offensively last year (Callahan was never expected to put up those kinds of numbers) and that Kreider's playoffs were a flash in the pan as well. Not saying Kreider or Hagelin are going to be busts or anything, but Hagelin probably won't produce at the rate he did last year and Kreider probably needs more time. Last year could easily have been a career year for Callahan offensively. Taking all that into consideration, we're not nearly as deep a team as we might have thought. Furthermore, I wasn't impressed with Richards last season more often than I was. He was good, but not as good as our fan base made him out to be. This season he's flat out infuriating me and he looks tremendously out of shape, IMO. He probably will improve as the games go on, but he certainly won't be improving as the seasons go by. Something to think about. This team is still missing a legit bottom pairing defender and a forward that solidifies the bottom six and gives it some cohesiveness, IMO. We may also need to put Hagelin in the bottom six, send Kreider down and think about cheap, rental options for the top six to give us depth that we evidently don't have.

And finally, I think we can ask some questions about the teams commitment level during this long off-season. Nash was obviously ready to go. I think Gabby looks refreshed too. But I'm thinking either a lot of guys didn't think there was going to be a season and took it easy or weren't working out like they fancy themselves serious contenders this year because the team just looks overall flat and in need of conditioning.

I'm confident we're a playoff team. I'm confident that by the time the playoffs roll around, we'll have sorted a lot of things out, guys will have gotten their legs, their chemistry, their timing... whatever it is they need to sort out. I'm confident that we're still a good team in the long run and we can get hot at the right time. I don't think this is the best team in the league by a long shot though, and I do think there are some things that need to be addressed.

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01-24-2013, 11:16 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Rangerboy030 View Post
Stars provide the fuel for playoff success, but lineup depth is the engine that wins the championship. With the Nash trade, we've got 4 big barrels full of high octane fuel with Nash, Richards, Gaborik and Lundqvist, but now we've only got a Toyota Camry engine to put it in.
The Devils beat the Rangers because of their fourth line. Ryan Carter got hot.

It doesn't matter that the Rangers have three stars up front, if that line or those guys get shutdown, it's over.

Those character gritty guys with pretty good skill score big goals in the history of the playoffs; Stephane Matteau, Lanny McDonald at the end of his career, Bobby Nystrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Max Talbot, etc.

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01-24-2013, 11:21 PM
  #223
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Can a guy like Fast make the 3rd line or is he not defensively responsible enough?

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01-24-2013, 11:30 PM
  #224
Rangerboy030
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
The Devils beat the Rangers because of their fourth line. Ryan Carter got hot.

It doesn't matter that the Rangers have three stars up front, if that line or those guys get shutdown, it's over.

Those character gritty guys with pretty good skill score big goals in the history of the playoffs; Stephane Matteau, Lanny McDonald at the end of his career, Bobby Nystrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Max Talbot, etc.
Exactly.

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01-24-2013, 11:32 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
The Devils beat the Rangers because of their fourth line. Ryan Carter got hot.

It doesn't matter that the Rangers have three stars up front, if that line or those guys get shutdown, it's over.

Those character gritty guys with pretty good skill score big goals in the history of the playoffs; Stephane Matteau, Lanny McDonald at the end of his career, Bobby Nystrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Max Talbot, etc.
Or we can give our bottom 6 more than 4 games to prove they're not that bad.

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