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Old
01-25-2013, 12:06 AM
  #101
Ted Black
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I think you're forgetting how reckless and aggressive offensively he was his rookie season. Its why he was so productive. Getting to that point total he led the entire NHL in giveaways his rookie year with 94. He's actually had far less the two seasons after that with 67 and 44 in 55gms last year (roughly a 67 giveaway pace for a full season). He got away with that aggression because Tallinder covered for him as did Miller who was having a great season. But Myers is no where near as reckless and turnover prone now as he was as a rookie.


What I mean with board battles not being his game is this. His rookie year he would play a positional defensive game in our zone to deny passing options and try to close down opposing players. He was pretty good at it with that wingspan. But now he gives up that advantage by moving closer to an opposing player to engage in a board battle and its led to worse d-zone play by Myers.

Ruff needs to let Myers get back to the recklessly attacking offensive dman he was in his rookie year and stop trying to turn him into Chris Pronger.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. We haven't seen hardly any offense out this guy since his rookie year. Is it him or the coach?

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01-25-2013, 12:35 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
And Leo/RR has been a good pair before for us and even back in CGY.



I didn't want to say it, but yeah. I blame Ruff for Myers' woes.
This can't possibly lie squarely on Ruff, I'm sorry. There's more water in the argument of his utilization of Myers hurting the team. But Myers' actual on-ice play is more on himself.

Yes, strategically he has gotten worse in his approach, as pointed out. But what about the total deterioration in decision making and puckhandling? Nothing to do with coaching. He's certainly not being told to float a backhand board pass at 1/174ths MPH to his defensive partner who happens to be sporting the other team's uniform. He's not being told to keep his head still and not look around him when playing the weak side and in front of the net. These are idiotic mental mistakes.

Tonight, he should have slammed Bowman's throat into the dasher. He tapped his shin pad S-O-F-T. He plays soft. And when he does try to hit, he takes himself far out of position to do so.



Good:

- Vanek

Bad:

- Team defense
- Turnovers
- Faceoff domination by the other team

Ugly:

- Myers
- FES have been invisible as a line, but I'm seeing the least of Ennis. At least you can notice Foligno or Stafford along the walls or in front...
- Enroth....brutal

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01-25-2013, 12:47 AM
  #103
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Not squarely, but I think Ruff doesn't let him be him, and it effects his play drastically.

It wouldn't be a new thing with Ruff and players. (See: Vanek, Thomas)

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:53 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Not squarely, but I think Ruff doesn't let him be him, and it effects his play drastically.

It wouldn't be a new thing with Ruff and players. (See: Vanek, Thomas)
I hate when it seems like I'm being intentionally contradictory, because I'm not trying to be. But you look at Vanek now, and he's probably one of the better case samples Ruff has in terms of taking a one-dimensional player and making him complete. He's a playmaking winger now, who can set them up as easily as he has scored them nowadays...and he's obviously a finisher. He knows where to be for the most part in the D-zone, occasionally he'll be late getting there. But he works hard on the backcheck and has matured a ton.

But there's definitely something there in terms of Ruff and staff advising Myers to play outside of his bailiwick. It has hurt him. But there are problems and issues that are deeper and more intrinsic than Ruff.

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01-25-2013, 01:02 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I hate when it seems like I'm being intentionally contradictory, because I'm not trying to be. But you look at Vanek now, and he's probably one of the better case samples Ruff has in terms of taking a one-dimensional player and making him complete. He's a playmaking winger now, who can set them up as easily as he has scored them nowadays...and he's obviously a finisher. He knows where to be for the most part in the D-zone, occasionally he'll be late getting there. But he works hard on the backcheck and has matured a ton.

But there's definitely something there in terms of Ruff and staff advising Myers to play outside of his bailiwick. It has hurt him. But there are problems and issues that are deeper and more intrinsic than Ruff.
I just posted a thread that might hit on this a bit more...

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:31 AM
  #106
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GOOD:

-VHP offensively
- I thought Ehrhoff had a strong game.
- A chance for redemtion tomorrow night with a goalie who probably won't be leaking goals.

BAD:
- VHP defensively. Yuck.
- I thought Sekera had a rough game back there. A play where he played the puck away from Skinner causing him to spin out (seriously, is there anyone who falls more than Skinner?), only to have Skinner get up and just take the puck off the stick comes to mind. Not enough compete today.
- This is the 2nd straight season Ennis has started extremely slowly.
- Well, Grigs got some PP time and overall it wasn't pretty. Looks like he's gonna need some time to adjust to NHL speed there, too. Had a couple nice shifts replacing Ennis with Fogilno and Stafford on the wings though.

UGLY:
- The hit on Gerbe in his first game back. That was a major all day.
- Enroth's 2nd period. What, exactly, was he doing with his goal stick on the 2 5-hole goals? It was a weakness last year, and it's not a pretty start for this year either. The only one of the non-EN goals I can't fault him on was the 5th one. Sure other mistakes were made in the lead up to other goals, but he's got to make a lot of those stops. He didn't do a good job getting square or in the right position for most of the night.
- One loss (aided by a leaky goalie), and the knives are out at Ruff again . Some posters will try to blame anything and everything on him.
- The power play was, in a word, atrocious. Horrible decision making, no willingness to dump and chase when stood up, -1 on the night and could have been more (even if the one that went in was a horrible softie). Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh.


Last edited by jflory81: 01-25-2013 at 01:50 AM. Reason: Forgot an ugly
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Old
01-25-2013, 01:51 AM
  #107
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Before I get into the GBU let me say one thing...I have been the biggest apologist to Canes fans around. I have continually apologized on this forum for the patronizing act that some Sabres fans give towards Canes fans. I'm all about the growth of hockey, wherever it may be. With all that being said, I cannot believe the crap that I got today for rooting for the Sabres. I've been to 10 or so games down here between Buffalo and Carolina and it's always been a bit tense but nothing like tonight. Some Canes girl followed me the second I left the bathroom from the beer line to the concession line shouting "Buck Fuffalo" or something like that and another dick slapped my tall boy of Blue from my hand. I wouldn't have cared so much if I didn't pay eleven bucks for that. If the Canes fans want to act like that I hope theyre ready in March because that is weak.

Good:
Ott
Stafford driving the net
Hodgson
Gerbe
Cam Ward looked great

Bad:
Ennis needs to simplify his game

Ugly:
Myers is making that contract look awfully risky
Sulzer
Enroth should have had one of those two back to back goals
Where the hell was Vanek

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:14 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ted Black View Post
I don't think it was as bad as some of you make it out. Our D was terrible though.
You can blame the D all you want, but it was Hodgson and Pommer who made the game-turning errors.

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01-25-2013, 02:47 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
Before I get into the GBU let me say one thing...I have been the biggest apologist to Canes fans around. I have continually apologized on this forum for the patronizing act that some Sabres fans give towards Canes fans. I'm all about the growth of hockey, wherever it may be. With all that being said, I cannot believe the crap that I got today for rooting for the Sabres. I've been to 10 or so games down here between Buffalo and Carolina and it's always been a bit tense but nothing like tonight. Some Canes girl followed me the second I left the bathroom from the beer line to the concession line shouting "Buck Fuffalo" or something like that and another dick slapped my tall boy of Blue from my hand. I wouldn't have cared so much if I didn't pay eleven bucks for that. If the Canes fans want to act like that I hope theyre ready in March because that is weak.

Good:
Ott
Stafford driving the net
Hodgson
Gerbe
Cam Ward looked great

Bad:
Ennis needs to simplify his game

Ugly:
Myers is making that contract look awfully risky
Sulzer
Enroth should have had one of those two back to back goals
Where the hell was Vanek
Post it on the canes board. I'm sure that's not indicative of an entire fan base, and they'll admit as much.

Sorry about your experience. That plus the performance of the team makes for a ****** night. Sorry it sucked.

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01-25-2013, 03:34 AM
  #110
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This game pretty much sums up all of my worries about this edition of the Sabres.
I had written a fairly long post, but it's pretty simple: the lack of experience down the middle and what I feel is a poor mix of skaters overall has the potential to end up very bad.
Their success looks like it will be almost completely dependent on whether Miller can make up for their lack of both defensive and offensive ability.
With the very real possibility they'll be eaten alive at the dot and in puck possession, it's a tall task for even the best of netminders.

The worst part is it looks like they'll have to ride Miller into the ground again and hope he can get as hot as he has at times to even have a fighting chance, as the book is out on Enroth.
We know how Ruff is with backups and Jhonas has lost nine or ten in a row now.
He either creates problems for himself and lets in brutal goals or gets picked apart by the best shooters in the world because of his physical flaws.
Five hole is seemingly always available, the top third of the net is there, and he seems to have issues with pucks that just find their way through him.
I've seen enough over the past few years to have no confidence in him.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:33 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
This game pretty much sums up all of my worries about this edition of the Sabres.
I had written a fairly long post, but it's pretty simple: the lack of experience down the middle and what I feel is a poor mix of skaters overall has the potential to end up very bad.
Their success looks like it will be almost completely dependent on whether Miller can make up for their lack of both defensive and offensive ability.
With the very real possibility they'll be eaten alive at the dot and in puck possession, it's a tall task for even the best of netminders.

The worst part is it looks like they'll have to ride Miller into the ground again and hope he can get as hot as he has at times to even have a fighting chance, as the book is out on Enroth.
We know how Ruff is with backups and Jhonas has lost nine or ten in a row now.
He either creates problems for himself and lets in brutal goals or gets picked apart by the best shooters in the world because of his physical flaws.
Five hole is seemingly always available, the top third of the net is there, and he seems to have issues with pucks that just find their way through him.
I've seen enough over the past few years to have no confidence in him.
I haven't seen any games yet this year so take what I say with a grain of salt but I don't really share your lack of confidence for Enroth.
Sure his five-hole needs a lot of work but any goalie not named Miller is gonna let in a lot of goals if there is no support from the team on the ice. Assuming a backup to steal games is setting the bar way high.
Enroth is a good enough backup, If he can close his five-hole and get adequate defensive support, it's safe to assume he could have a 2 GAA over a season.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:58 AM
  #112
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I concur with some previous posters.....Would like to see a line of Foligno, Ott, Kaleta

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:54 AM
  #113
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myers played probably the worst game i've ever seen out of him. i was there with clase seats and it looked like he was lost out there- dropping his stick, no hustle whatsoever, looking dazed and confused half the time

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01-25-2013, 07:21 AM
  #114
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Wow, Myers is taking a beating.
I don't think he deserves it.

Has he been great? No.
Has he been the Sabres worst defenseman? I'm not so sure.
Can he be better? Absolutely.

Last night he still made some plays that nobody else on that blue line could make. Long reach pokes, some coast to coast rushes, and he absolutely wrecked a Hurricane in the corner (during final pk). I thought it might have been the best hit of the hit night, but I never saw the replay.

All and all, he was -1.

I'm not worried about Myers... yet.

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01-25-2013, 07:29 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
Before I get into the GBU let me say one thing...I have been the biggest apologist to Canes fans around. I have continually apologized on this forum for the patronizing act that some Sabres fans give towards Canes fans. I'm all about the growth of hockey, wherever it may be. With all that being said, I cannot believe the crap that I got today for rooting for the Sabres. I've been to 10 or so games down here between Buffalo and Carolina and it's always been a bit tense but nothing like tonight. Some Canes girl followed me the second I left the bathroom from the beer line to the concession line shouting "Buck Fuffalo" or something like that and another dick slapped my tall boy of Blue from my hand. I wouldn't have cared so much if I didn't pay eleven bucks for that. If the Canes fans want to act like that I hope theyre ready in March because that is weak.
That would have made me so, so mad.

How big was he and how did you handle that?

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Old
01-25-2013, 07:38 AM
  #116
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Miller is going to start the next 36847543135468435 games after that ****fest last night.
Sorry, I'm still not an Enroth believer.

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Old
01-25-2013, 07:41 AM
  #117
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let's start on a pool on when enroth will get his next start.

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01-25-2013, 07:43 AM
  #118
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let's start on a pool on when enroth will get his next start.
March 20, 2016.

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Old
01-25-2013, 07:56 AM
  #119
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he's the best, and only fit

the moment we started the season with regehr-myers, i knew it was going to be another season struggling through lindy's daft assessments.
Yup. Even though I'm still higher on Regehr than most, Lindy's use of him as a limited minute defensive specialist (who still plays the toughest assignments while actually out there) is entirely incompatible with what Myers needs to succeed.

And I've only been hoping for the staff to realize the Niedermayer comparisons since Myers broke into the league.

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01-25-2013, 08:34 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
Not squarely, but I think Ruff doesn't let him be him, and it effects his play drastically.

It wouldn't be a new thing with Ruff and players. (See: Vanek, Thomas)
Of course, there's no EVIDENCE to support that, only your FEELINGS, but why let that get in the way?

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01-25-2013, 08:38 AM
  #121
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How long will it take for us to start to feel bogged down by the Myers contract? Seriously, all we need him to be is pretty good. But if he continues to be bad 50% of the time he steps on the ice, we're in trouble. Once that contract set in, the honeymoon was over. Now we're in the grind of everyday marriage. Are we still in love?

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01-25-2013, 08:41 AM
  #122
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How long will it take for us to start to feel bogged down by the Myers contract? Seriously, all we need him to be is pretty good. But if he continues to be bad 50% of the time he steps on the ice, we're in trouble.
If ANY player is bad 50% of the time they play, their contract is bad.

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01-25-2013, 09:18 AM
  #123
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Curious analogy. How do you arrive at Jackman?
By assuming that Jackman had a huge rookie season offensively and then tapered off a lot, which I now see isn't actually the case. Analogy still kind of works though, Jackman was never even as good defensively as he was that first year when he shipped the Calder.

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01-25-2013, 09:33 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
- Enroth's 2nd period. What, exactly, was he doing with his goal stick on the 2 5-hole goals? It was a weakness last year, and it's not a pretty start for this year either. The only one of the non-EN goals I can't fault him on was the 5th one. Sure other mistakes were made in the lead up to other goals, but he's got to make a lot of those stops. He didn't do a good job getting square or in the right position for most of the night.
I'm not sure I can fault him on the first one either. That was a sick backhander by Skinner.....and Enroth's only issue stopping that one is that maybe he was too short. I'm not sure Miller gets that one.

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01-25-2013, 10:37 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
let's start on a pool on when enroth will get his next start.
Or start a pool on how many more games he plays before he gets a win. He's 0-9-3 in his last 12. Lalime 2.0.

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