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Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:41 PM
  #626
StreetSharks
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I call BS on that. He's been part of the select few that could produce 50 goals, 100+ points, year in, year out, and he did it for 5 (well, minus his sophomore season) consecutive years. I'd think if it was about figuring him out, a season would have been enough, but 5 years? I don't buy that excuse.
Agreed, it's a dumb excuse to use.

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01-24-2013, 09:30 PM
  #627
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People use to say AO was the most talented one dimensional ever. Cause what he was doing did not require vision and savoir faire, he was just superior at skating, shooting and hitting.

There was one play he made tonight, a big shot against Price where I think had it happened during his great 5 years, the goalie would have made the save but the puck would have gone threw anyway because of his superior shot, the strength he shot it with. But because he has just a little less strength than he used to have, that's a normal shot by a normal player and of course a goalie like Price would stop any shots point blank. AO because of his once superior pure skills never had to use his intellect, never had to stop and think "if I shot at a goalie, I better find places to beat him at" cause his shots always got through and they could not stop it.

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01-24-2013, 09:38 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
OV's shot is his shot, but the explosiveness in his legs is gone. The difference in acceleration now vs five years ago is really remarkable and that's what's affecting his shot totals.

He's not fat anymore, so it must just be something he lost with age. Jagr lost a similar amount of explosiveness around the same age, but his other tools combined with his stratospheric hockey IQ allowed him to adjust and not miss a beat.
Doesn't look like Ovie is going to try to adjust his game anytime soon.

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01-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
People use to say AO was the most talented one dimensional ever. Cause what he was doing did not require vision and savoir faire, he was just superior at skating, shooting and hitting.

There was one play he made tonight, a big shot against Price where I think had it happened during his great 5 years, the goalie would have made the save but the puck would have gone threw anyway because of his superior shot, the strength he shot it with. But because he has just a little less strength than he used to have, that's a normal shot by a normal player and of course a goalie like Price would stop any shots point blank. AO because of his once superior pure skills never had to use his intellect, never had to stop and think "if I shot at a goalie, I better find places to beat him at" cause his shots always got through and they could not stop it.
You know, I'm pretty sure it occurred to Ovechkin to aim his shots long before he ever played in the NHL.

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01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
  #630
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I don't think it has much to do with defences "figuring him out" or they would've done it by season 2 or 4.

The problem is the dead puck era 2.0 has been going for at least a year now and it makes it difficult for Ovechkin to do what he does best. Just a lot less open ice when you're allowed to push the physicality further. Plus tbh he has lost maybe a bit of an edge but I'd say it has the most to do with an increase in interference/physical type hockey.
"Dead puck era 2.0"???

What hockey have you been watching this year? I just finished watching the Leafs lose 7-4 to the Islanders.

There have been lots of wide open, free-wheeling games this year. A bunch of guys with 3 and 4 point nights. An awesome hat trick by Gaborik last night.

Stop making excuses for a guy who either can't or won't play to his potential anymore. Just because he is not scoring doesn't mean we are in a dead puck era. Do you read the Hockey News? They debunked that myth in a recent article.

If the interference is so bad, why are so many players managing to fight their way through it, and he can't considering he was, according to his fans, always in "beast mode"?

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01-24-2013, 10:06 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
You know, I'm pretty sure it occurred to Ovechkin to aim his shots long before he ever played in the NHL.
But he never aimed with precision as much as he used to unload like crazy.

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01-24-2013, 10:44 PM
  #632
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But he never aimed with precision as much as he used to unload like crazy.
So are we saying that his problems with scoring lies with his obsession with aiming his shots? Really?

He is a perimeter player. That is his problem.

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01-24-2013, 10:49 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
I don't think it has much to do with defences "figuring him out" or they would've done it by season 2 or 4.

The problem is the dead puck era 2.0 has been going for at least a year now and it makes it difficult for Ovechkin to do what he does best. Just a lot less open ice when you're allowed to push the physicality further. Plus tbh he has lost maybe a bit of an edge but I'd say it has the most to do with an increase in interference/physical type hockey.
They did figure him out in year 2. His acceleration was just too fast to keep a good gap and stickcheck him and he was too strong to try and play physically. There's a difference between a coach knowing how to play a guy and having people who are capable of doing it.

The explosiveness that allowed him to telegraph what he was going to do, but do it anyway, is what's missing.

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01-24-2013, 10:50 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
People use to say AO was the most talented one dimensional ever. Cause what he was doing did not require vision and savoir faire, he was just superior at skating, shooting and hitting.

There was one play he made tonight, a big shot against Price where I think had it happened during his great 5 years, the goalie would have made the save but the puck would have gone threw anyway because of his superior shot, the strength he shot it with. But because he has just a little less strength than he used to have, that's a normal shot by a normal player and of course a goalie like Price would stop any shots point blank. AO because of his once superior pure skills never had to use his intellect, never had to stop and think "if I shot at a goalie, I better find places to beat him at" cause his shots always got through and they could not stop it.
You don't think when you play hockey.

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01-24-2013, 10:52 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
So are we saying that his problems with scoring lies with his obsession with aiming his shots? Really?

He is a perimeter player. That is his problem.
I agree. It's probably a mixture of the fact that he isn't exceptional at possessing the puck and also the fact that he's older now, less excited about scoring goals, not as fast, and perhaps too heavy. I'm not implying he's fat, but maybe he lost the right balance he had between height/weight/muscle mass/etc that allowed him to dominate.

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01-24-2013, 10:54 PM
  #636
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But he never aimed with precision as much as he used to unload like crazy.
He was a master of putting them just inside the post. It doesn't happen by accident.

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01-24-2013, 10:55 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
So are we saying that his problems with scoring lies with his obsession with aiming his shots? Really?

He is a perimeter player. That is his problem.
You guys are misunderstanding what that guy's saying.

What he's saying is Ovechkin's physical tools, specifically acceleration and strength, used to give him such an advantage that he never really learned the things other skill players do to be effective. Reduce those tools a little bit and he has nothing to fall back on.

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01-24-2013, 10:57 PM
  #638
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Ovechkin will be bought out at some point. He is degrading fast and soon he will be a completely useless player.

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01-24-2013, 11:03 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
You guys are misunderstanding what that guy's saying.

What he's saying is Ovechkin's physical tools, specifically acceleration and strength, used to give him such an advantage that he never really learned the things other skill players do to be effective. Reduce those tools a little bit and he has nothing to fall back on.
Yeah, okay, I'll buy that.

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Old
01-24-2013, 11:03 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
"Dead puck era 2.0"???

What hockey have you been watching this year?
I just finished watching the Leafs lose 7-4 to the Islanders.

There have been lots of wide open, free-wheeling games this year. A bunch of guys with 3 and 4 point nights. An awesome hat trick by Gaborik last night.

Stop making excuses for a guy who either can't or won't play to his potential anymore. Just because he is not scoring doesn't mean we are in a dead puck era. Do you read the Hockey News? They debunked that myth in a recent article.

If the interference is so bad, why are so many players managing to fight their way through it, and he can't considering he was, according to his fans, always in "beast mode"?
The season just started a week ago and you're pretending until last week we weren't in a dead puck era 2.0? The last two seasons have seen average goals per game being comparable to the dead puck era.

These tightly called games are just what we saw coming out of the last lockout, an attempt to get back to more offensive-minded hockey. Don't be surprised if we see the refs begin to swallow their whistles as the season goes on.

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01-24-2013, 11:08 PM
  #641
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I know people dont believe that its impossible that it took 5 years to figure him out. While I agree with that to a point, for the first 5 years it didnt matter if you did figure him out he was to fast and to strong. But I believe defenceman have improved since 2005.

To me its a mixture of loss of speed, out of shape, yes I know he lost weight but still doesnt mean hes training right (or wrong just my opinion) the league has adapted to him better than he has adapted to the league. Age as well. If you look at pure elite goal scorers most 20-25 is a much better age than 26-30. He also doesnt look as hungry as he used to be.

I just looked up his stats and hes been playing professional hockey since 2001-2002. This is is 13th season playing professional hockey. I know he started when he was 16 but at any rate that is alot of professional hockey.

I just have a funny feeling by the time hes 30-31 hes going to a tenth of what he used to be. Hope Im wrong because he was so much fun to watch. But at some point the Ovechkin die hards have to realize that you will never see the ovy we all know and love again.

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01-25-2013, 12:15 AM
  #642
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In his prime/at his peak he was the best player in the game.

Better than Malkin, Better than Crosby, Better than Thornton.

Sad to see his game at now.

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01-25-2013, 12:34 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
People use to say AO was the most talented one dimensional ever. Cause what he was doing did not require vision and savoir faire, he was just superior at skating, shooting and hitting.

There was one play he made tonight, a big shot against Price where I think had it happened during his great 5 years, the goalie would have made the save but the puck would have gone threw anyway because of his superior shot, the strength he shot it with. But because he has just a little less strength than he used to have, that's a normal shot by a normal player and of course a goalie like Price would stop any shots point blank. AO because of his once superior pure skills never had to use his intellect, never had to stop and think "if I shot at a goalie, I better find places to beat him at" cause his shots always got through and they could not stop it.
Yeah. He probably also skate's whit his eyes closed.

Come on dude, you don't get 59, 54, 54, 53 ....assist seasons by NOT having the IQ to play hockey.

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01-25-2013, 12:52 AM
  #644
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Yeah. He probably also skate's whit his eyes closed.

Come on dude, you don't get 59, 54, 54, 53 ....assist seasons by NOT having the IQ to play hockey.
Marc-Andre Bergeron was on pace for 40 assists last season, from a position where production is harder to come by, in fewer minutes, and has such a low hockey IQ that he cannot even be trusted to skate a regular shift against another teams' fourth line.

If you have a bomb and can get it toward the net when skilled finishers are on the ice, you can pick up assists with a low hockey IQ.

This is not to say that Ovechkin's similar to MAB. Just pointing out that high assist totals and high hockey IQ are not 1-1.

Edit: Ric Jackman was the same way as MAB. Bomb of a shot. Dumbest hockey player ever. Had some productive assist stretches, even going a point per game for a quarter of a season.

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01-25-2013, 01:00 AM
  #645
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Oates is apparently going to use a very similar system to that of Deboer. The Devils players have been saying today that it took at least half a year to get into the groove of the system. That included a full camp, preseason etc.

Ovi doesn't seem the quickest adapter so hopefully he can come around eventually. Everyone needs to buy in.

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01-25-2013, 01:45 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
In his prime/at his peak he was the best player in the game.

Better than Malkin, Better than Crosby, Better than Thornton.

Sad to see his game at now.
I agree.

If you watch highlights from 5+ years ago he just isn't that same player anymore.



Every couple of weeks we would get a 'HOLY CHRIST! HE DID WHAAAT??' type goal from him.

Remember when he did things like this? The guy played like a Bull in a china shop, with great hands, and a shot like Bossy.


It's not just his explosiveness that's missing. His creativity, and his finesse is all gone.





I can't believe Don Cherry was actually right about him:






I do wonder if he will bounce back like Mogilny and Bure did before him.

http://www.rockthered.net/2012-artic...the-great.html


Last edited by Perfect_Drug: 01-25-2013 at 02:02 AM.
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01-25-2013, 02:06 AM
  #647
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Marc-Andre Bergeron was on pace for 40 assists last season, from a position where production is harder to come by, in fewer minutes, and has such a low hockey IQ that he cannot even be trusted to skate a regular shift against another teams' fourth line.

If you have a bomb and can get it toward the net when skilled finishers are on the ice, you can pick up assists with a low hockey IQ.

This is not to say that Ovechkin's similar to MAB. Just pointing out that high assist totals and high hockey IQ are not 1-1.

Edit: Ric Jackman was the same way as MAB. Bomb of a shot. Dumbest hockey player ever. Had some productive assist stretches, even going a point per game for a quarter of a season.
Well the difference is that MA Bergeron was "on pace" for 40 assists and Ovechkin netted basically 60, not too good of a comparison.

BTW Ovechkin was on pace for almost 70 assists.

Ovechkin might not have the highest hockey IQ in the game but he does have elite offensive awareness.

Edit.
I get that you are not comparing MA Bergeron and Ov since it would make no sense. You have a point, assists=/=Hockey IQ.

But when player is having 50+ assists and 50+ goals on regular basis for 5 years it is a pretty good indicator about the fact that the player is elite offensively and has offensive awareness.


Last edited by TAnnala: 01-25-2013 at 02:26 AM.
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01-25-2013, 02:09 AM
  #648
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I posted this a while back, but this is a look at how he scored nearly all of his goals in his rookie season. His shot seemed unstoppable back then, and his strength and speed allowed him to power through everything. He wasn't afraid to make all sorts of dekes either.



He can't seem to do that anymore.

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01-25-2013, 02:45 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
In his prime/at his peak he was the best player in the game.

Better than Malkin, Better than Crosby, Better than Thornton.

Sad to see his game at now.
Yeah, quite amazing just a few years ago he had led the league in points per game for three seasons in a row!

All areas of his game have regressed (I place the blame on him for that), he actually looked quite good in the KHL this season and is the only player to come from the KHL and be performing poorly in the NHL this season

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01-25-2013, 05:00 AM
  #650
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In his prime/at his peak he was the best player in the game.

Better than Malkin, Better than Crosby, Better than Thornton.

Sad to see his game at now.
Goalscoring yes, offensively debatable, overall, no

Never thought putting the C on him made sense. He is not a natural leader and does not respond well to responsibility.

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