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Markov is still a top 10 defenseman in the league

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01-25-2013, 06:05 AM
  #101
Hackett
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The only thing that has been standing in the way of markov in the last few years are injuries. He's played 4 conecutive games, and its clear that his vision is still there, but its just 4 games.

Health is the only thing standing in his way from being re-considered as one of the better d-men in the game

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01-25-2013, 06:11 AM
  #102
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Well I think he'll level out over 48 games (a pipe dream considering his injury issues but it'd be impressive to see) to scoring about 10 goals, 30-35 points. Pretty good nonetheless. He's always had the shot but deferred to others over the years like Brisebois, Souray, Streit, Schneider. Markov's +/- and playoff totals in his career stand out as what aren't elite for him and why he won't be going to any HOF when he's done playing but the guy has never EVER had an elite d-man with him. Of the above guys, only Streit went on to show he was a good two-way defender. At other times Markov had to lug around average joes like Craig Rivet, Karl Dykhuis, Stephane Quintal or Mathieu Dandenault.

I'd argue Nick Lidstrom got to play with better d-men over the years (Konstantinov, HOF'er mentors like Mark Howe and Larry Murphy, Rafalski, Kronwall). He made everyone better but to a more minor extent Markov has done that in Montreal for a while too- ever since he became our best d-man about 10 years ago. Without him they got by in 10-11 but the same strategy of protecting 1 goal leads by Martin backfired in 11-12 and Cunneyworth was ill-equipped to help. Markov was greatly missed. After one of his first big injuries, the lacerated tendons in 2009, the Habs were lost without him. He missed the first 36 games and the team was 15-18-4. First game back, he scores 2 goals in Long Island and they finish the year 24-15-6, get into the playoffs and upset Washington.

Somehow they eked by Pittsburgh with Markov gone due to the torn ACL but he was missed vs. Philly. Didn't stand out only cause they could throw in Subban to stem the bleeding a bit back when he was an unknown commodity in the NHL. Markov's a career +26 which sounds average but considering all his PP points and that only 1 one of the Habs teams he played for was any good 5-on-5 or finished above 6th seed (2007-08) I'd say that's pretty darn good. If in 3-5 years he's still going at it in the NHL (he'll be old by then, late 30s) and the Habs aren't legit contenders, some elite team may see how good he really is if the Habs trade him to give him a Cup contending chance. Price is probably the Habs MVP of the past two years but pre-dating all that, it's Markov. D-men like him don't grow on trees exactly.

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01-25-2013, 07:14 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galchenyuktocollberg View Post
Calling him a top ten d man is crazy he has looked amazing out there and made us a way better team but wait one season atleast then evaluate
You know what, we are not talking of a youngster like Ekman-Larsson and going crazy after he scored x goals in the first 3 games. We're talking of a damn veteran who everyone should have seen enough times to make a clear judgment of his play. I don't need to watch anymore games of Markov to know who he is. Nobody knows when/if he'll get injured again but I've got no shame in calling him a top defenseman when he's healty.

I've been a member of this board for over 10 years, even though I don't post often, so I perfectly know that each year a lot of people go crazy over some dude who start the season on fire, but Markov ? Crosby is having a quiet season so far, but I have no trouble calling him a top player. Joe Thornton is on fire lately, should I wait more games to call him a top center in the league ? He's Joe Thornton, I don't need to see more games of Joe Thornton. Same with Markov.

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01-25-2013, 07:20 AM
  #104
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Well he's shown that he still has the ability that made him arguably top5 in the past - incredible vision, incredible passing, good shot, amazing anticipation, good mobility, awesome goal celebrations, uncanny talent at keeping the puck in the offensive zone and outside the defensive zone, ect...

If he maintains that he's definitely a top10 defensemen in the league. Obviously its a bit early to say but Markov was always constant in his play. Hopefully the body holds because if he can play 25+min per game at this level for the entire season the Habs are not a bottom feeding team anymore. Markov > Subban, btw.

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01-25-2013, 07:22 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Brownies View Post
You know what, we are not talking of a youngster like Ekman-Larsson and going crazy after he scored x goals in the first 3 games. We're talking of a damn veteran who everyone should have seen enough times to make a clear judgment of his play. I don't need to watch anymore games of Markov to know who he is. Nobody knows when/if he'll get injured again but I've got no shame in calling him a top defenseman when he's healty.

I've been a member of this board for over 10 years, even though I don't post often, so I perfectly know that each year a lot of people go crazy over some dude who start the season on fire, but Markov ? Crosby is having a quiet season so far, but I have no trouble calling him a top player. Joe Thornton is on fire lately, should I wait more games to call him a top center in the league ? He's Joe Thornton, I don't need to see more games of Joe Thornton. Same with Markov.
Good point. And well-said.

Also like the avatar!

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01-25-2013, 07:25 AM
  #106
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I would be inclined to agree that Markov may be a better PP QB than Karlsson at the moment. Experience certainly helps in that area and Markov is a sublime passer.

Karlsson is unchallenged at even strength as a gamebreaker, but on the PP, he is very good but maybe not the best in the league.

In last year's 78 point season, most of his points were ES.

Markov has always been a real terror on the PP.

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01-25-2013, 07:31 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Good point. And well-said.

Also like the avatar!
Thanks, it makes me look more intelligent than I really am...

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01-25-2013, 07:33 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
The only thing that has been standing in the way of markov in the last few years are injuries. He's played 4 conecutive games, and its clear that his vision is still there, but its just 4 games.

Health is the only thing standing in his way from being re-considered as one of the better d-men in the game
13 games last year + 21 in the KHL + 3 this year = 37 consecutive games that he's played in a row without getting injured.

His knee is FINE! People need to wake up and realise that.

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01-25-2013, 07:35 AM
  #109
Ewan McGregor
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No doubt. I laugh when I see people saying Subban is better. Markov's only fault is being injury-prone.

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01-25-2013, 07:45 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
We just forgot how good he is. Completely re-transformed Montreal's PP and transition game. Very solid defensively as well.

4 pts in 2.5 games so far and is making Diaz look like a Norris candidate
looks like your overrating a player based on stats. Many people are overrating teams and players and were forgetting its only been 3 games, some only 2 lol.

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01-25-2013, 07:57 AM
  #111
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I think he is just outside the top 10 because since he last played a full season, a lot of D-men have came up, ex Doughty, Pietrangelo.

But he is showing that he is still a number 1 d-men. While is putting some numbers up, he is just so good in his own end, and I think that goes unnoticed a lot, he plays a game just like Lidstrom in term of style of play, always in the right position, amazing stick out, and wins puck battles around the boards.

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01-25-2013, 08:07 AM
  #112
Ewan McGregor
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I think he is just outside the top 10 because since he last played a full season, a lot of D-men have came up, ex Doughty, Pietrangelo.

But he is showing that he is still a number 1 d-men. While is putting some numbers up, he is just so good in his own end, and I think that goes unnoticed a lot, he plays a game just like Lidstrom in term of style of play, always in the right position, amazing stick out, and wins puck battles around the boards.
Maybe it's just me, but Pietrangelo is not better than Markov

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01-25-2013, 08:13 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
??? "Still" is correct. The poster is saying that Markov never was a top 10 dman.
OP probably did not mean to say that he never ceased to be a top 10. "Again" would have been better.

As to the poster who quoted him (stressing on "still"), he's the only one who knows if he meant that he never was or that he was and ceased to be.

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01-25-2013, 08:20 AM
  #114
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Now, he might have been a top 10 d-man before the injuries, but guys like Doughty and Pietro weren't even in the league then.
And these guys are pathetic compared to the guard a couple of years ago. The top 10 was something like:

Pronger
Lidstrom
Chara
Niedermayer
Markov
Zubov
Kaberle
Gonchar
Markov
Boyle

I'm probably forgetting some very important names but healthy Markov of these years was better than Doughty now. Doughty had one amazing season, aside from that he looked unimpressive sans the cup run. Markov was also better than Pietrangelo. The only guys who are definitely better than prime Markov currently are Weber, Chara and Karlsson(because of his ridiculous offensive contribution).

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01-25-2013, 08:44 AM
  #115
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I don't think anyone is giving enough credit here. Sure it's only a few games but 3 PP goals is nothing to sneeze at.... for a full season. And Markov did it in 3 games.

Quick - how many NHL defensemen scored more than 3 PP goals last year over the full 82 game season? Anyone?

The answer is 25. Markov has basically surpassed the goal scoring ability of 85% of the leauge's defenders, and he's done it in 3 games. To put this in perspective, Toronto once went a full calendar year without having a single PP goal scored by any defensemen.

Markov is in rarified air. If he's healthy and back to normal, there's no one better on the PP. Absolutely no one.

People question whether he was ever in the Top 10? He led the league in PP points in 2008-09, his last full season, and that's when Lidstrom and Niedermayer were still around and Mike Green was on fire. The only thing that can hold him back is injuries. He's shown so far this year that he's still got it.

Yes, we know PP performance and putting up points isn't everything, but the funny part is he's damn good in his own end too. People just assume that becuase he's unbelievable on the PP that he has to be soft and worthless in his own end - simply not true. Back when Ovechkin was good he listed Markov as the toughest defenseman in the league to play against. He does it with brains and vision instead of brute force, but the guy is very good in his own end too.

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01-25-2013, 08:45 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
And these guys are pathetic compared to the guard a couple of years ago. The top 10 was something like:

Pronger
Lidstrom
Chara
Niedermayer
Markov
Zubov
Kaberle
Gonchar
Markov
Boyle

I'm probably forgetting some very important names but healthy Markov of these years was better than Doughty now. Doughty had one amazing season, aside from that he looked unimpressive sans the cup run. Markov was also better than Pietrangelo. The only guys who are definitely better than prime Markov currently are Weber, Chara and Karlsson(because of his ridiculous offensive contribution).
Markov was so good in those years he made the Top10 at number 5 AND 9

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01-25-2013, 08:46 AM
  #117
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Karlsson is going to have some competition this year

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01-25-2013, 08:50 AM
  #118
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by BigZKingK View Post
Markov was so good in those years he made the Top10 at number 5 AND 9
It was in no particular order. I was talking about Danny Markov.






























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01-25-2013, 09:09 AM
  #119
sharks9
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
I don't think anyone is giving enough credit here. Sure it's only a few games but 3 PP goals is nothing to sneeze at.... for a full season. And Markov did it in 3 games.

Quick - how many NHL defensemen scored more than 3 PP goals last year over the full 82 game season? Anyone?

The answer is 25. Markov has basically surpassed the goal scoring ability of 85% of the leauge's defenders, and he's done it in 3 games. To put this in perspective, Toronto once went a full calendar year without having a single PP goal scored by any defensemen.

Markov is in rarified air. If he's healthy and back to normal, there's no one better on the PP. Absolutely no one.

People question whether he was ever in the Top 10? He led the league in PP points in 2008-09, his last full season, and that's when Lidstrom and Niedermayer were still around and Mike Green was on fire. The only thing that can hold him back is injuries. He's shown so far this year that he's still got it.

Yes, we know PP performance and putting up points isn't everything, but the funny part is he's damn good in his own end too. People just assume that becuase he's unbelievable on the PP that he has to be soft and worthless in his own end - simply not true. Back when Ovechkin was good he listed Markov as the toughest defenseman in the league to play against. He does it with brains and vision instead of brute force, but the guy is very good in his own end too.
That's pretty interesting looking at that list. For Montreal only Subban and Weber had more than 3 and they only had 5 and 4 respectively.

Even the great Erik Karlsson only had 3 PPG all of last year and he averaged 3:53 on the PP every game!

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01-25-2013, 09:17 AM
  #120
habs03
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Originally Posted by Ewan McGregor View Post
Maybe it's just me, but Pietrangelo is not better than Markov
He is really good, but the point was that there are guys that came along the past few years that are in the discussion for top 10 dmen.

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01-25-2013, 09:20 AM
  #121
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
That's pretty interesting looking at that list. For Montreal only Subban and Weber had more than 3 and they only had 5 and 4 respectively.

Even the great Erik Karlsson only had 3 PPG all of last year and he averaged 3:53 on the PP every game!
To be fair, that stat while interesting is a bit nit-picky. A defenseman just needs to catch a hot streak to put on this. It also leads you to forget goals defensemen potted at even strength which is more impressive than on the PP.

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01-25-2013, 09:21 AM
  #122
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He's good, but top 10? Come on bro, we are 4 games into the season

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01-25-2013, 09:25 AM
  #123
Montreal Shadow
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Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
He's good, but top 10? Come on bro, we are 4 games into the season
Markov was considered top 10 for a couple of years though. It's not like he's a rookie starting his NHL career. It really wouldn't be that surprising to see him back in the top 10.

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01-25-2013, 09:31 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
Markov was considered top 10 for a couple of years though. It's not like he's a rookie starting his NHL career. It really wouldn't be that surprising to see him back in the top 10.
It wouldnt be surprising, but talk to me after 25-30 games, not 4 into the season.

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01-25-2013, 10:05 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I would be inclined to agree that Markov may be a better PP QB than Karlsson at the moment. Experience certainly helps in that area and Markov is a sublime passer.

Karlsson is unchallenged at even strength as a gamebreaker, but on the PP, he is very good but maybe not the best in the league.

In last year's 78 point season, most of his points were ES.

Markov has always been a real terror on the PP.
Gotta agree with you here. What makes Markov great is his cerebral play, which makes him one of the best PPQB out there, but he doesn't have the greatest physical tools. He won't ever skate the way Karlsson does, and he won't ever have a slapshot as hard as Chara's. However, his passing and positioning is amongst the very best, which in my opinion is part of the reason why he can still be extremely effective on a power-play despite blowing up his knee x times.

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