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Old
01-25-2013, 10:02 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Also, I can't see any way that Filppula gets more than $4m from the Wings; $5m would be insanity.
How many comparable players can you find who have signed in the past year for $4m? Grabovsky, Zajac, Lupul...all over $5m.

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01-25-2013, 10:06 AM
  #127
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Gonna throw my hands up in surrender if we resign Cleary next year.
I expect Cleary to be gone. Even Holland isn't that stupid.

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01-25-2013, 10:07 AM
  #128
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I expect Cleary to be gone. Even Holland isn't that stupid.
You sure about that

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01-25-2013, 10:14 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I said, and I quote, That Tatar NEVER stated he was going to bolt for the KHL. He never said he's going to bolt for the KHL. He said it's an option down the line, but he didn't know. That's far from certainty that he's going to absolutely bolt. It's a strawman argument that you're making.


I didn't call you a Holland hater. To say that Tatar doesn't have a roster spot next year is complete BS, and I will call you on it. There are four forward position spots to fill next year. Cleary will not be resigned. Even if Filppula is resigned (I don't think he will), that leaves 3 positions. Two of those WILL be filled by Tatar and Nyquist, unless they are traded. To argue against this is arguing against common sense.
Filppula will be renewed. That's how Ken Holland operates and I believe it would be wise to sign him to a new deal given he's one of our best forwards, plays in all areas and still has some untapped upside. However I'm very confident the Wings will buy Franzen out with an amnesty buy out and that could open up a spot for Tatar since we know the odds of us getting a guy in free agency are long.

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01-25-2013, 10:15 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Filppula will be renewed. That's how Ken Holland operates and I believe it would be wise to sign him to a new deal given he's one of our best forwards, plays in all areas and still has some untapped upside. However I'm very confident the Wings will buy Franzen out with an amnesty buy out and that could open up a spot for Tatar since we know the odds of us getting a guy in free agency are long.
IMO, The odds of us buying out Franzen are smaller

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01-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by datsykiandeke View Post
You sure about that
If Cleary wants to come back they'll give him the Maltby, Draper, Homer option of competing for a spot during training camp with the outcome being he ends up in Grand Rapids. He's shown nothing to indicate he's still capable of playing in the NHL. It's early but coming off last season he does seem to be in rapid decline.

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01-25-2013, 10:24 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
How many comparable players can you find who have signed in the past year for $4m? Grabovsky, Zajac, Lupul...all over $5m.
Ninja edit.

Zajac is at 5.75, but isn't he their number 1 center?

Grabovski signed under the old cap system, didn't he?

Lupul, well, I can't really speak for that. I certainly wouldn't have given him that much for what amounts to 2 good seasons (1 with the *ucks, and the other with the Leafs)

I don't know, maybe you're right, but I wouldn't do it... I guess we'll just have to see how this shortened season goes.


Last edited by RedMenace: 01-25-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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01-25-2013, 10:31 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
IMO, The odds of us buying out Franzen are smaller
I agree. I don't see anyway they buy out Franzen.

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01-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
I expect Cleary to be gone. Even Holland isn't that stupid.
I wouldn't be so sure. How many extensions did Maltby get while on his last legs?

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01-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  #135
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I think we do not have Nyquist in the line up tonight. Not happy.

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01-25-2013, 10:41 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
The roster I listed was an "end of season" roster... meaning the best players were in the lineup. Also, what are the chances of Eaves staying healthy for the full season, realistically?
Gentleman's bet he doesn't play more than 41 games next year and if/when he does play its because we have a ton of injuries and its a bottom 6 role.

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01-25-2013, 10:44 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Ninja edit.

Zajac is at 5.75, but isn't he their number 1 center?

Grabovski signed under the old cap system, didn't he?

Lupul, well, I can't really speak for that. I certainly wouldn't have given him that much for what amounts to 2 good seasons (1 with the *ucks, and the other with the Leafs)

I don't know, maybe you're right, but I wouldn't do it... I guess we'll just have to see how this shortened season goes.
What I'd be willing to give him depends on what position we're playing him. I don't think he can touch 50 points if he's a center, and I wouldn't be interested in a $5m, 40 point second line center. At that point, I think he's an offensive third line center. If he's at wing, I think he could do .7-.8 pretty consistently, and still be a factor defensively. That's something I'd be more comfortable spending $5m on.

Of course, if we sign Getzlaf and Perry I wouldn't mind letting Flip walk

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01-25-2013, 10:46 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
I wouldn't be so sure. How many extensions did Maltby get while on his last legs?
Maltby could still skate relatively well even on his last legs. Cleary looks like he's skating with sandbags strapped to his ankles. Also, barring a trade or two emptying out GR, our prospect pipeline is a bit better now than it was when Maltby was hanging around.

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01-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimuspaul View Post
IMO, The odds of us buying out Franzen are smaller
It's a new CBA. Retirement doesn't wipe the remainder of the contract off the books. I would be shocked if the Wings committed to a 7 year contract for Mule when they can buy it out and have it no longer count against the cap. With Z I can see them keeping him given he's the captain but I'd seriously think long and hard about buying out both contracts. If you don't you are on the hook for both of them for every single year regardless of whether the guy is still on your team.

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01-25-2013, 11:09 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
What I'd be willing to give him depends on what position we're playing him. I don't think he can touch 50 points if he's a center, and I wouldn't be interested in a $5m, 40 point second line center. At that point, I think he's an offensive third line center. If he's at wing, I think he could do .7-.8 pretty consistently, and still be a factor defensively. That's something I'd be more comfortable spending $5m on.
Oh yeah, I totally agree; $5m+ for a top-6, 60-point, scoring winger is decent, but that much for a 3rd-line center is right out.

Quote:
Of course, if we sign Getzlaf and Perry I wouldn't mind letting Flip walk
Hey, a man's gotta have some dreams to hold on to, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
It's a new CBA. Retirement doesn't wipe the remainder of the contract off the books. I would be shocked if the Wings committed to a 7 year contract for Mule when they can buy it out and have it no longer count against the cap. With Z I can see them keeping him given he's the captain but I'd seriously think long and hard about buying out both contracts. If you don't you are on the hook for both of them for every single year regardless of whether the guy is still on your team.
Is there a clause in that particular point that mentions anything about injury retirements? I'd think the Wings would keep Zetterberg's contract over Franzen's, but one has to wonder about Z's long-term health...

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01-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
It's a new CBA. Retirement doesn't wipe the remainder of the contract off the books. I would be shocked if the Wings committed to a 7 year contract for Mule when they can buy it out and have it no longer count against the cap. With Z I can see them keeping him given he's the captain but I'd seriously think long and hard about buying out both contracts. If you don't you are on the hook for both of them for every single year regardless of whether the guy is still on your team.
Oh man I hope you are right. I wish only the best for Franzen, but he and Hudler have not helped us win. I do understand that for his production he is a fair value but my gut instinct says let him go.

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01-25-2013, 11:49 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Oh yeah, I totally agree; $5m+ for a top-6, 60-point, scoring winger is decent, but that much for a 3rd-line center is right out.

Hey, a man's gotta have some dreams to hold on to, right?

Is there a clause in that particular point that mentions anything about injury retirements? I'd think the Wings would keep Zetterberg's contract over Franzen's, but one has to wonder about Z's long-term health...
I don't think there's an injury retirement clause, or at least I haven't heard anything about it. If someone goes down with injury, I think our best hope is that they stay on the payroll and we LTIR them every year. I think that at least takes them off our cap hit at the beginning of the season. The Franzen deal shouldn't be a big worry, though. Even if he retires with a couple of years left, the cap hit we'd absorb is under $2m. An inconvenience but not a killer. Z's, though...I think it was over $5m if he retired with a couple of years left...

And with how this season has begun, dreams have been a requirement.

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01-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I don't think there's an injury retirement clause, or at least I haven't heard anything about it. If someone goes down with injury, I think our best hope is that they stay on the payroll and we LTIR them every year. I think that at least takes them off our cap hit at the beginning of the season. The Franzen deal shouldn't be a big worry, though. Even if he retires with a couple of years left, the cap hit we'd absorb is under $2m. An inconvenience but not a killer. Z's, though...I think it was over $5m if he retired with a couple of years left...

And with how this season has begun, dreams have been a requirement.
I don't know what that is Winger, but I'm a little more frightened of you now.

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01-25-2013, 12:54 PM
  #144
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Winger showing off his film buff. That a boy.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:42 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
It's a new CBA. Retirement doesn't wipe the remainder of the contract off the books. I would be shocked if the Wings committed to a 7 year contract for Mule when they can buy it out and have it no longer count against the cap. With Z I can see them keeping him given he's the captain but I'd seriously think long and hard about buying out both contracts. If you don't you are on the hook for both of them for every single year regardless of whether the guy is still on your team.
I don't think either guy gets it although they might take a look and then easily pass on Franzen. They will not consider Z and shouldn't, he can be LTIR if that is what eventually happens, and would probably be happy to stay in the area and collect his paychecks. But in your scenario you're still talking about paying these guys combined what 50+ million dollars. I know Ilitch is rich and all but that is pretty ridiculous. Especially for two guys that still produce and have good cap hits relative to what they are.

Keep in mind these are not normal buyouts. They don't function over the course of years. They are lump sum huge payments depending on what the have left on the books. At least that is my understanding of it.

Guessing Nyquist is staying down through Monday, as he has not been replaced of the AHL all-star game. Would seem he is good to go there and the Wings won't be using him unless injury strikes again before that at least I think they would share that with the AHL.

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01-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #146
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How is it possible with our current roster that there isn't any room for Nyquist?

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01-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
How is it possible with our current roster that there isn't any room for Nyquist?
I would really like to see Nyquist play.

The players holland is signing do have value, and are good players for what they are.
But he is not looking at the big picture (We just have too many forwards)

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01-25-2013, 04:05 PM
  #148
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How many comparable players can you find who have signed in the past year for $4m? Grabovsky, Zajac, Lupul...all over $5m.
And all three are markedly better than Filppula. I dont think we can expect last year's production from him every year.

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01-25-2013, 04:18 PM
  #149
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Filppula is on pace for 0 points. I think we could sign him real cheap after such a terrible season.

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01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
  #150
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I think it may be my Newfoundlander bias showing but I wouldn't mind Cleary back on a 1 year 1 -1.5M million contract, he could play on the 4th line and still contribute a bit. He's had the most up & down career of anybody on our team & I think that experience will help out the younger guys we have coming up.

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