HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Emergence of Other Offensive D-man and Erik Karlsson

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-24-2013, 04:29 PM
  #26
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 13,689
vCash: 500
Ok with Karlsson being a generational talent, but the best player in the NHL? Aren't we going too far with this? One of the most exciting, highly efficient but there's a bunch of mega stars in the NHL that should be considered as much if not more than Karlsson :

Malkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, Rinne, Giroux, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Quick, Chara, Weber, Suter, Toews, Parise...


* not talking about guys like Selanne, Jagr, Brodeur, Pronger and Lidstrom for obvious reasons (age)

Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:34 PM
  #27
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Malkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, Rinne, Giroux, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Quick, Chara, Weber, Suter, Toews, Parise...
What? At the very least any forward that is put ahead of Karlsson must have more points than him. EK still has to repeat last season a few times to put himself solidly in the top 5, so yes he's not the best.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:35 PM
  #28
armani
Guy Likes
 
armani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,254
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Ok with Karlsson being a generational talent, but the best player in the NHL? Aren't we going too far with this? One of the most exciting, highly efficient but there's a bunch of mega stars in the NHL that should be considered as much if not more than Karlsson :

Malkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, Rinne, Giroux, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk, Quick, Chara, Weber, Suter, Toews, Parise...


* not talking about guys like Selanne, Jagr, Brodeur, Pronger and Lidstrom for obvious reasons (age)
Karlsson is a generational talent and better/more valuable than the bolded ones aboves. I won't put goalies in the same category as skaters either. They are in their own category and King Henrik is the best of the bunch (but not a generational talent like Roy, Hasek, or Brodeur).

armani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 04:47 PM
  #29
swiftwin
#lalala
 
swiftwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,005
vCash: 500
To me, for Karlsson, it's not even about the points. It's just the way he covers the whole ice. He'll lead a rush, then the puck goes the other way, then, somehow, he's the first person back breaking up a play. He's so smart about it too, when he's rushing back, it's not because he made a mistake, it's because he knows he can get away with it.

He's a special player, and he plays like he knows he's a special player. There's no other defenseman like him in the NHL right now, not even close. There are other defenseman who are very solid, like Pie, but they are good because they are very smart, safe and sound in a traditional sense. But there's a limit to how much of an impact players like this can have. Karlsson just breaks all the rules and gets away with it. I really think he will be unanimously recognized as hands down the best player in the NHL in a couple years, with a small chance of an Art Ross at some point in his career.

swiftwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 05:00 PM
  #30
Sens91
Registered User
 
Sens91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 587
vCash: 500
Nowhere near the same player, yet at least, but if anyone wants to see someone play rover, tune in to TSN tonight at 9:30 lol, Schultz definitely fits that bill.

EDIT: After the Sens game of course

Sens91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 10:57 PM
  #31
PatrickEaves
Karan S'Jet
 
PatrickEaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,802
vCash: 500
Karlsson has been on the ice for zero goals against this season.

How many goals against has Pietrangelo been on the ice for this season? More than one you say? That's what I thought.


__________________
No, I'm not a girl. Stop asking!
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBlQ4ybRWH8
PatrickEaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:01 PM
  #32
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
Pains me to say it, but as long as the Leafs don't rush Rielly I think he could eventually give Karlsson a run for his money in terms of points by a defenceman. The kid is special. Wouldn't shock me to see him get some 60+ point seasons in the NHL.

WasTeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:07 PM
  #33
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
Pains me to say it, but as long as the Leafs don't rush Rielly I think he could eventually give Karlsson a run for his money in terms of points by a defenceman. The kid is special. Wouldn't shock me to see him get some 60+ point seasons in the NHL.
He's NEC to ppg in the WHL. I think you're way off lol

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:12 PM
  #34
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
He's NEC to ppg in the WHL. I think you're way off lol
He doesn't play on a very good team. If you actually watch him play and don't stat watch you see the elite potential. If he can improve his clapper he'll have the full arsenal at his disposal. Kid is dynamic. I stand by what I said.

WasTeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:13 PM
  #35
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
To me, for Karlsson, it's not even about the points. It's just the way he covers the whole ice. He'll lead a rush, then the puck goes the other way, then, somehow, he's the first person back breaking up a play. He's so smart about it too, when he's rushing back, it's not because he made a mistake, it's because he knows he can get away with it.

He's a special player, and he plays like he knows he's a special player. There's no other defenseman like him in the NHL right now, not even close. There are other defenseman who are very solid, like Pie, but they are good because they are very smart, safe and sound in a traditional sense. But there's a limit to how much of an impact players like this can have. Karlsson just breaks all the rules and gets away with it. I really think he will be unanimously recognized as hands down the best player in the NHL in a couple years, with a small chance of an Art Ross at some point in his career.
This. Very well said.

Even on Monday he didn't play that well. But on the PK he breaks up that pass at the blueline and goes in on the breakaway. And his goal tonight.

When he does stuff like that, I say ''who does that?'' No one. No one does that. It's insane. Breaks all the rules and gets away with it... very well said.

Hasn't been on for even strength goal against despite taking these ''risks''... but they're not really risks for him, he just knows what he's doing.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:13 PM
  #36
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 21,807
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
Pains me to say it, but as long as the Leafs don't rush Rielly I think he could eventually give Karlsson a run for his money in terms of points by a defenceman. The kid is special. Wouldn't shock me to see him get some 60+ point seasons in the NHL.
He's very very good, I agree with you but Karlsson is the youngest to win the Norris since Orr. Karlsson is a generational talent. The chances of Rielly becoming one is one in a million.

Karlsson absolutely destroyed the WJC in his draft year. Best defender and it wasn't close. Rielly was HORRIFIC when faced against tougher teams.

Yes I do agree that WJC is small sample but if you expect to be generational talent I sure hope you perform average let alone amazing. I do agree Rielly has 60 point potential but I'd wage anything he doesn't get more than that. I'd be SHOCKED if he even reaches it.

ReginKarlssonLehner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
  #37
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
He doesn't play on a very good team. If you actually watch him play and don't stat watch you see the elite potential. If he can improve his clapper he'll have the full arsenal at his disposal. Kid is dynamic. I stand by what I said.
He's meh even when you watch him. Like you say his shot isn't very good... pretty much impossible to score 60+ points with no shot.

Dynamic =/= 60+ points. Lots of players are dynamic with their skating and even the puck skills but they don't rack up the numbers.

Honestly not a fan of Rielly, Leaf bias aside. Rich man's JM Liles

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:25 PM
  #38
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
He's very very good, I agree with you but Karlsson is the youngest to win the Norris since Orr. Karlsson is a generational talent. The chances of Rielly becoming one is one in a million.

Karlsson absolutely destroyed the WJC in his draft year. Best defender and it wasn't close. Rielly was HORRIFIC when faced against tougher teams.

Yes I do agree that WJC is small sample but if you expect to be generational talent I sure hope you perform average let alone amazing. I do agree Rielly has 60 point potential but I'd wage anything he doesn't get more than that. I'd be SHOCKED if he even reaches it.
I'm just talking offensive ability. I don't think he'll be as good as EK defensively since EK just gets better in his own zone all the time. The Leafs will work on him with his shot. It's easier to improve your slap shot then it is to develop amazing hockey sense like Rielly has.

WasTeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:27 PM
  #39
PatrickEaves
Karan S'Jet
 
PatrickEaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,802
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
I'm just talking offensive ability. I don't think he'll be as good as EK defensively since EK just gets better in his own zone all the time. The Leafs will work on him with his shot. It's easier to improve your slap shot then it is to develop amazing hockey sense like Rielly has.
Dude. Chris Phillips still doesn't have a good slapshot, and it's been 16 years.

PatrickEaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:38 PM
  #40
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
Dude. Chris Phillips still doesn't have a good slapshot, and it's been 16 years.
Didn't ever seem like it was that high on his priority list to improve it lol. He had a lot to learn defensively when he came up as you know and seemed like he left his offense in the rearview mirror to concentrate pretty much exclusively on his D zone play.

Rielly is a pure offensive guy. The Leafs would be stupid not to put time and effort into his shot. It'll pay off massively in the long run.

WasTeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2013, 11:50 PM
  #41
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 21,807
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WasTeD View Post
I'm just talking offensive ability. I don't think he'll be as good as EK defensively since EK just gets better in his own zone all the time. The Leafs will work on him with his shot. It's easier to improve your slap shot then it is to develop amazing hockey sense like Rielly has.
You underestimate the ability to improve someone's shot. Rielly has NO shot right now and to think he'll be able to all of a sudden get one and improve on it to become a strength is just as difficult as learning the defensive side of the game. At the age of 17 and Karlsson was already scoring OT slapshot winners with a clear lane to the net from the blue-line in the SEL.

Regardless, you have to be good defensively to be able to create chances offensively. Reason why Karlsson gets SO much points, which is commonly overlooked, is because he is amazing at stripping the opposing team's forwards and countering it for more possession and more chances to score/get points.

The weaker you are defensively, the more you'll be hemmed in your own zone, the less possibility you'll have to increase your scoring chances, the less amount of points you'll obtain and finally, the more chances you'll resemble M-A Bergeron.

ReginKarlssonLehner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 02:02 AM
  #42
QuietOnTheFront
@QuietOnTheFront
 
QuietOnTheFront's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
Until Karlsson retires I doubt we see a player who can skate with the puck like he can, he's a generational talent and could be the best player in the NHL and he is only getting better.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he wins the Norris and Hart this year.
It's funny because I was having a conversation with my friend who's a Leafs fan and he said the exact same thing.

I think Karlsson is the best thing to happen to the Sens franchise. If he keeps up his play and carries it through to the end of the season, there is no doubt that the Hart trophy is within his reach.

QuietOnTheFront is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 02:56 AM
  #43
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,155
vCash: 137
The only players in the league that can impact a game as much as Karlsson are Crosby and Malkin. Its insane and not fair what he does.

Benny FTW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 03:10 AM
  #44
kaws
Registered User
 
kaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto & Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 274
vCash: 50
Seriously... What I saw tonight from Karlsson was all instinct. Primitive instinct mixed with elite skill. I don't know how but he just knew that the pass was going there and he just stayed put in that spot and with absolute easy, the puck landed right on his stick.
He made 3 Florida players stop dead in their tracks and sniped in the goal. If you watch the replay, the defenders just stood there blank until it was too late.

I mean... who the hell does that?? I was in awe..

kaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 07:32 AM
  #45
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
NyQuil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,913
vCash: 500
That goal was ridiculous.

I was watching at a bar and everyone just looked flabbergasted.

How did that just happen?

He's like having a second centre on the ice.

His defensive play is becoming criminally underrated, and now we are seeing how lucky Kuba was by how Methot, who according to BJ fans was on their bottom pairing, is playing like a champion.

NyQuil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 08:03 AM
  #46
MoreGore
Registered User
 
MoreGore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
That goal was ridiculous.

I was watching at a bar and everyone just looked flabbergasted.

How did that just happen?

He's like having a second centre on the ice.

His defensive play is becoming criminally underrated, and now we are seeing how lucky Kuba was by how Methot, who according to BJ fans was on their bottom pairing, is playing like a champion.
That goal was because he intercepted a breakout play, something few other defenders would try. It was also because the D (Kulikov) had a massive brain fart and Theodore left a huge hole for EK to hit. 99 times out of 100 that play is harmless.

--- but becasue EK does it so often, he does generate offense when nobody else can.

MoreGore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 08:26 AM
  #47
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,214
vCash: 87
Theodore had most of the net covered. He moved while Karlsson was shooting. He guessed wrong.

That play was sick though. I can't believe he was able to get to the net that fast.

It's one thing to pick off a pass and get a break when you are in full stride, but to pick off a pass, wait for a guy to get onside, still beat three defenders and shoot where a guy used to be...

That's genius.

Karlsson IS one of the best players in the league. He deserves to be in any conversation that includes Crosby and Malkin.

John Holmes* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 09:36 AM
  #48
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
To me, for Karlsson, it's not even about the points. It's just the way he covers the whole ice. He'll lead a rush, then the puck goes the other way, then, somehow, he's the first person back breaking up a play. He's so smart about it too, when he's rushing back, it's not because he made a mistake, it's because he knows he can get away with it.

He's a special player, and he plays like he knows he's a special player. There's no other defenseman like him in the NHL right now, not even close. There are other defenseman who are very solid, like Pie, but they are good because they are very smart, safe and sound in a traditional sense. But there's a limit to how much of an impact players like this can have. Karlsson just breaks all the rules and gets away with it. I really think he will be unanimously recognized as hands down the best player in the NHL in a couple years, with a small chance of an Art Ross at some point in his career.
He covers the most ice in the league with his feet and he can do it with pass too. No one has quantified this yet and there's a decent chance he's tops in possession time too, how else do you run tops he league in giveaway+ takeaway.

His best impact on the game is something that gets overlooked, it's why we score a ton when he's on the ice. Defence fast, long time in offensive zone. Scoring plays come out of thin air.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 09:40 AM
  #49
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
That goal was ridiculous.

I was watching at a bar and everyone just looked flabbergasted.

How did that just happen?

He's like having a second centre on the ice.

His defensive play is becoming criminally underrated, and now we are seeing how lucky Kuba was by how Methot, who according to BJ fans was on their bottom pairing, is playing like a champion.
I was floored. Don't think anyone else in the game would have done that, although some players can...there's a good chance they wouldn't have tried.

The plays he makes to turn the team back on offense are impossible to ignore and impact the game greatly. He's like a defensive back in the neutral zone waiting for a pick-6.

Not to mention, team in general is fast...they look like a swarm of bees but with structure. We haven't played anyone good yet but it's encouraging to see them dictate their style against what I assume to be lesser opponents.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #50
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
That goal was because he intercepted a breakout play, something few other defenders would try. It was also because the D (Kulikov) had a massive brain fart and Theodore left a huge hole for EK to hit. 99 times out of 100 that play is harmless.

--- but becasue EK does it so often, he does generate offense when nobody else can.
We should start to agree with the rest of HFboards, EK is a 4th forward.

And they should admit that the Sens have an unfair advantage because he is a 4th forward while also playing at defense.

He is worth 2 players when he is on the ice.

guyzeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.