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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XVI

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #951
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Chances are GMGM will fire Oates here if this continues. The next 3 games are tough and if the team doesn't find some passion they will be 0-6 and there will be tremendous pressure to get something done.

I agree that GMGM needs to go if that happens but worst case I surely hope that if he fires Oates then he himself will step behind the bench. I hope Ted mandates this to him. Let him try to coach this jumbled mix of players and see how he does. Maybe it will give him some perspective that constantly blaming the coach isn't the way to go.

There are no trades that will turn this team around...at least not ones I want GMGM to make.
Oates shouldnt get canned that early. If the hire is *that* bad, it's GMGM who needs to ax. He hired the man, after an exhaustive search. Firing Oates 6 games in represents John MacLean type failure (worse than Cassidy).

And again...its not *that* they are losing. Its how they look doing it. The eye test is worse than the results, if that is even possible when you are outscored 14-6 by 3 soft/crap non-playoff teams (2 at home).

All of these "trades" people are proposing is stupid. A wont happen, B still have the same core and GM.

Game Over, people.

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:51 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
Realistically if we keep sucking and go winless, what will be done?

I know firing Oates is tough to do so soon.

McPhee? Players traded?
Stick it out?
Dude---

Just look across the abyss at the Wizards. You want to know what Ted will do, its smacking you in the face. Start abysmally bad? Ted wont do anything.

We will ride it out, see some improvement...after which Ted will "demand" .500+ play for the reminder of the season, it will happen, and all will be forgiven. ("playoff type basketball EDIT--hockey")

Ted isnt fat...but he sure is SOFT.

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01-25-2013, 09:51 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Oates shouldnt get canned that early. If the hire is *that* bad, it's GMGM who needs to ax. He hired the man, after an exhaustive search. Firing Oates 6 games in represents John MacLean type failure (worse than Cassidy).

And again...its not *that* they are losing. Its how they look doing it. The eye test is worse than the results, if that is even possible when you are outscored 14-6 by 3 soft/crap non-playoff teams (2 at home).

All of these "trades" people are proposing is stupid. A wont happen, B still have the same core and GM.

Game Over, people.
I agree with everything you say here. But at some point I would expect Oates to be canned if this continues. Is it fair? Nope. But thats how it will play out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
Realistically if we keep sucking and go winless, what will be done?

I know firing Oates is tough to do so soon.

McPhee? Players traded?
Stick it out?
As far as this season goes they should just stick it out and hope for a turnaround.

I don't think trades are the answer here during the season. A GM switch doesn't do much right now either...that would be best in the offseason.

In the NHL and NBA the solution is always to fire the coach and thats what will happen.

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01-25-2013, 11:17 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
I shouldn't have to defend myself in front of 12 year old internet badboys.

My trades aren't awful. All the players i've suggested acquiring are not bad hockey players and could improve our team.

Whether that's "slightly" or "dramatically" is up to you. I haven't made a legitimate trade other than saying Jay Beagle (who is having a pretty good season so far) that would hurt our team.

It should be understandable that Green or McDonagh is a joke. Clearly. If you didnt' get that, you need to develop a "internet sarcasm meter".
I know this wasnt directed towards me but I always find it funny when someone complains about being insulted, then in turn insults someone moments later.

as for the topic......whats the Burke countdown at?

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01-25-2013, 11:30 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I know this wasnt directed towards me but I always find it funny when someone complains about being insulted, then in turn insults someone moments later.

as for the topic......whats the Burke countdown at?
I'm in the minority, but I would be happy with Burke. His success's have come when taking over talented clubs (Ducks), and tweaking them into champions. His failures have come (Maple Leafs and Canucks) when needing to completely build from the bottom up.

I would actually argue Vancouver wasnt a failure persay, but they didnt win a Cup. Toronto is a failure today. Will see what that looks like in 2-3 years.

I would be very happy with Brian Burke running this years Washington Capitals. He would be the right guy to bring in after George. He's kind of he Anti-McPhee in GM'ing (risk taker vs risk averse)

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01-25-2013, 11:34 AM
  #956
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Keep in mind, this may be a shortened season, but it's still only 6.25% done. Plenty of hockey left to play.

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01-25-2013, 11:52 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Keep in mind, this may be a shortened season, but it's still only 6.25% done. Plenty of hockey left to play.
I know. But they arent passing the smell test. Like I said, were they losing one goal games, or looking ok doing it, I'd be less concerned.

The last 7 periods have been about as bad as a team can look, and its been against the relative dregs on the NHL (based on last years standings).

There is plenty of time here, but 0-3 and awful with 45 games left is far different than 0-3 and awful with 79 games left.

I feel bad for Oates. I like him, and he may very well be a terrific coach, but the circumstances he is now dealing with are about as unfair for him as they can get.

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01-25-2013, 12:04 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Kulemin would be ideal but he makes too much sense for GM to trade for him. If Brouwer could actually be a useful utility player instead of a one man play killer that would be Kulemin.

And ffs man, this team should not have Wolski in a top 6 role when they're pushing to contend. I don't care if he's on the best 3 game streak in the world.
Wait a minute..

Someone just AGREED with my suggested trade? What is going on here?

And Wolski is only a top 6 forward on this team. Other than that he's a third liner. But Kulemin would help us out and I hear Toronto is interested in shopping him. But GMGM won't do anything.

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01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
I know this wasnt directed towards me but I always find it funny when someone complains about being insulted, then in turn insults someone moments later.

as for the topic......whats the Burke countdown at?
oh its worse than that. i won't go into it, but brad does.

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01-25-2013, 12:35 PM
  #960
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oh its worse than that. i won't go into it, but brad does.
It's called retaliation with words.

Stop trying to start crap.

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:47 PM
  #961
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It's called retaliation with words.

Stop trying to start crap.
You say that, and then you add the stupid emoticon. Practice what you preach dude.

Seriously.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:01 PM
  #962
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Wait a minute..

Someone just AGREED with my suggested trade? What is going on here?
I wouldn't read too much into it, knowing that he really likes Kulemin and has been lobbying for the same since well before you joined.

Ever since Knuble's play fell off, they've been searching for that third wheel forward. Kulemin could well be it, but IMO there are too many temporary parts on the roster at the moment to bring anyone in, unless there is some team that really wants to trade quality for quantity. I don't see that team right now.

I will say that as much as I like Brouwer, he is not the answer for the third wheel.

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01-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
Wait a minute..

Someone just AGREED with my suggested trade? What is going on here?

And Wolski is only a top 6 forward on this team. Other than that he's a third liner. But Kulemin would help us out and I hear Toronto is interested in shopping him. But GMGM won't do anything.
You made a good suggestion so I approved. Had you made a bad suggestion I'd have crapped on it. This is how this forum works and has worked for the last 20 years.

Wolski should have no place anywhere here beyond this year if we're trying to ice the best team possible. He's not a 3rd line player. Assuming we clean house of all but the most essential/cost effective pieces we'd have enough cap space to bring in a strongpoint at every position. Perry would cost less than Laich and Hamrlik are making combined. On top of that we also have Schultz, Poti, Erskine, Green, Brouwer, Ward and Ribeiro sucking up like 25 million dollars. It's unholy.

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01-25-2013, 01:44 PM
  #964
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where does ovechkin fit into that? imo he is entering the danger zone

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01-25-2013, 01:47 PM
  #965
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Wonder what OV's value would be at this point. I suspect a team starving of star power might make a big play, Columbus?

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01-25-2013, 01:49 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
where does ovechkin fit into that? imo he is entering the danger zone
Did someone say danger zone?


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Old
01-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #967
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where does ovechkin fit into that? imo he is entering the danger zone
He enters the danger zone the moment he's no longer an excellent playoff performer. But I agree that there's a significant chance he gets traded in the next 3 years.

This is what I'd try to do.

Green + Brouwer + Perreault to Philly for Schenns. I think it can at least get a conversation started

Ribeiro at the deadline to Chicago. They seem like they'd overpay for a 2C

Hamrlik, Poti, Erskine to whoever for futures.

Laich + Johansson for O'Reilly, give or take.

Ward for futures or amnestied
Schultz amnestied

Explore trading for Setoguchi or Kulemin or both, put one of the goalies in play if we have to.

In the offseason use the 35 million cap space to outbid everyone on Perry (7 years 55 million type bid), Weiss, Smid, Clowe. If we're getting Perry Clowe is a must have. Get one PMDish vet like Whitney, Timonen or Streit. Probably Timonen, give him a 4 year contract no other team would touch. He'd be perfect as a bottom pairing mentor for Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Schenn and Jones (oh yeah we also tanked) and could probably step up and play a solid top 4 role when called upon.

Ovechkin - Weiss - Setoguchi (two fast guys who can create space and win battles, would have great chemistry with Ovechkin IMO. Seto has experience servicing star players and Weiss plays that style)
Clowe - Backstrom - Perry
Kulemin - O'Reilly - Forsberg - 2nd line caliber two way 3rd line
Hendricks - Schenn - Clutterbuck - high end 3rd line caliber two way fourt line
Beagle

Alzner Carlson
Smid Orlov
Timonen Schenn/Jones

Vet goalie (Backstrom, Kipper, possibly Bryzgalov if we can use that to get Schenns and more stuff from Holmgren)
Neuvirth/Holtby

As far as I can see this lineup doesn't have a single flake and everyone would be at home in the playoffs (aside from Forsberg being a ?). If we don't win with that, then yeah trade Ovechkin and start following the Flames.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:58 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
Realistically if we keep sucking and go winless, what will be done?

I know firing Oates is tough to do so soon.

McPhee? Players traded?
Stick it out?
The idiot owner needs to clean house and find a GM that knows how to build around OV-Nick-Fors-Kuz-MoJo-Carl-Alz-Orlov-Holtby. The rest are "just guys".

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
  #969
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Wonder what OV's value would be at this point. I suspect a team starving of star power might make a big play, Columbus?
Montreal or San Jose probably. If we trade Ovechkin now it would be like Kings trading Kopitar in 2010 because Stoll wasn't a legit 2C and their defense had holes.

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01-25-2013, 02:05 PM
  #970
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I don't think I'm at the point of trading OV yet, but I would be interested to see the offers. Doesn't his NTC kick in after this year?

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Montreal or San Jose probably. If we trade Ovechkin now it would be like Kings trading Kopitar in 2010 because Stoll wasn't a legit 2C and their defense had holes.
Brooklyn has a strong Russian population. He might be right for the Islanders from a headliner's point of view once they relocate, but Ovie's salary + the Wang factor might make that difficult, though the Islanders certainly could fit him in within their cap.

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01-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #972
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Brooklyn has a strong Russian population. He might be right for the Islanders from a headliner's point of view once they relocate, but Ovie's salary + the Wang factor might make that difficult, though the Islanders certainly could fit him in within their cap.
Good point, haven't thought of that.

I don't think his salary matters too much since it's all represented in the cap. That's why they don't mind DiPietro

However, if they start looking like a solid playoff team Wang will just hang his hat on that.

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01-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #973
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its funny. milbury blasted both schenns for complete lack of hockey sense the other day and jonesy didnt offer any defense of them. id stay clear of both of them

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01-25-2013, 02:23 PM
  #974
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Should this season go bad I sure hope we don't make wholesale roster changes by bringing in UFAs or what not.

If it does go bad I would expect another rebuild. Keep the guys they want to build around and then draft draft draft.

Making big trades or bringing in UFAs most often is a recipe for disaster.

When GMGM decided to put all his chips on a young D corp and inexperienced goalies that right there should have been a sign that we are really rebuilding.

Thats why the Ribeiro trade irked me a bit. Why trade futures if it does seem we are going young? Why not just give MP the reigns for a whole season and see what he can do.

Not understanding the direction really...if there is one that is.

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:27 PM
  #975
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I'll let Milbury dictate my opinions of players the day I let Milbury stab me in the eyes with a giant novelty fork.

Schenn looks like he'd make an excellent playoff 3rd liner with 2nd line upside. Hockey sense may not be elite but he doesn't need it. Hockey sense can make up a lot of things, but it's still only one piece of the puzzle. Hartnell and Clarkson certainly are making the most of theirs.

I just want 3rd/4th lines that can do what the Kings grinders and Devils 4th line did last year on a regular basis. Just completely outhit and outhustle the opposition on every inch of the ice, and be skilled enough to take advantage of the chaos offensively. Clutterbuck, Schenn, O'Reilly, Kulemin would be a step in the right direction IMO. Winnik too if we can afford him after all is said and done. The stuff he did with O'Reilly in Colorado was quite impressive.

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