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Will a goalie ever be drafted 1st overall ever again?

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:33 AM
  #26
Luigi Lemieux
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Kinda poor logic. If they had taken Staal maybe they would have won more than 1 cup.
If they had taken Staal they might not have been bad enough to land Crosby, Malkin, and Jordan Staal. In hindsight everything worked out perfectly for Pittsburgh. They won a cup and still have another decade of Crosby/Malkin ahead of them.

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01-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #27
FrankMTL
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Picking goalies in the top 10 is even huge risk. If we look at all the goalies that have been picked in the top 10 since 2000, how many are impact players?

2000- Rick DiPietro (1st overall)
2000- Brett Krahn (9th overall)

2001- Pascal Leclaire (8th overall)
2001- Dan Blackburn (10th overall)

2002- Kari Lehtonen (2nd overall)

2003- Marc Andre Fleury (1st overall)

2004- Al Montoya (6th overall)

2005- Carey Price (5th overall)

2006- None

2007- None

2008- None

2009- None

2010- None

2011- None

2012- None

A goalie hasn't been picked in the top 10 since Carey Price. Teams don't seem to like risking their top picks on goalies anymore because it's a crap shoot for the most part. You can pick a very good goalie in any round of the draft.

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01-25-2013, 11:17 AM
  #28
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by flames12 View Post
I know goalies are the huge risk, but I don't see it we will be lucky if a goalie will be drafted top 10 in the next 10 years unless a team needs a goalie really bad. Most of the better goalies now were 5th rounders etc. I'm just wondering if we will see a MAF anytime soon?
How many years has the collective NHL even identified the best goalie in a draft by picking him before any others? In the top 2, 3, etc? 2005 is about the only draft year that you could even make an argument that the collective was decent at identifying the talent order of goaltenders.

Until the scouting and analysis improves to actually have some confidence you are picking the best goaltender, why waste a #1 pick on him? You are almost guaranteed to get either THE best or near the best forward at #1. I have similar thoughts with respect to using a top 5 pick for a D man.

They are slightly better than drafting a goaltender, but why waste a high pick on one? History has shown that elite Dmen are still available in the late 1st-2nd rounds.

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01-25-2013, 11:20 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Lemieux View Post
If they had taken Staal they might not have been bad enough to land Crosby, Malkin, and Jordan Staal. In hindsight everything worked out perfectly for Pittsburgh. They won a cup and still have another decade of Crosby/Malkin ahead of them.
That doesn't mean that MAF was a good pick. It could have been a terrible pick in spite of what ended up happening.

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01-25-2013, 11:22 AM
  #30
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
That doesn't mean that MAF was a good pick. It could have been a terrible pick in spite of what ended up happening.
It was a terrible pick that keeps getting more and more terrible

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01-25-2013, 11:54 PM
  #31
IHaveNoCreativity
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The MAF was the right choice.. They won with him. Plain and simple.

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01-26-2013, 12:11 AM
  #32
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I dont see it happening unless there is a prospect thats the next coming of Brodeur, even then people might not be going for it.

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01-26-2013, 12:40 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
The MAF was the right choice.. They won with him. Plain and simple.
with the team in front of him any boarderline #1 goalie could have won it

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01-26-2013, 12:46 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Devilspuppet666 View Post
with the team in front of him any boarderline #1 goalie could have won it
MAF was amazing in the '09 playoffs (and I don't think he's a great goalie at all myself).

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01-26-2013, 01:00 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
How many years has the collective NHL even identified the best goalie in a draft by picking him before any others? In the top 2, 3, etc? 2005 is about the only draft year that you could even make an argument that the collective was decent at identifying the talent order of goaltenders.

Until the scouting and analysis improves to actually have some confidence you are picking the best goaltender, why waste a #1 pick on him? You are almost guaranteed to get either THE best or near the best forward at #1. I have similar thoughts with respect to using a top 5 pick for a D man.

They are slightly better than drafting a goaltender, but why waste a high pick on one? History has shown that elite Dmen are still available in the late 1st-2nd rounds.
Datsyuk was drafted in the 7th round. Shea Weber in the 2nd. Jamie Benn the 5th. How many times has the NHL identified the talent order of any position?

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01-26-2013, 01:09 AM
  #36
Frank Gallagher
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
Screwing up =/= Stanley Cup
I think it's a phonetics error. "Screw up," "Stanley Cup" they do sound pretty similar...

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01-26-2013, 01:12 AM
  #37
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The Pens didn't win the Cup because of Marc-Andre Fleury. They won because of the next two first two overall picks they had. Fleury is a career average Goaltender who was on the right team at the right time. He's been a massive disappointment and his brain farts at big moments are going to keep the number of cups Crosby and Malkin win much fewer than two players of their caliber ending up on the same team should have.

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01-26-2013, 01:15 AM
  #38
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For instance, it's embarrassing that the Crosby-Malkin Penguins have thus far only won their division once (in 07-08) with all the points those guys put up during the season. Fleury was good when Crosby and Malkin were out and the team played a really defensive style but aside from that has been extremely inconsistent throughout his career.

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01-26-2013, 01:16 AM
  #39
weaponomega
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Its too difficult to project 18 year old goalies. So hard that I think its highly unlikely it happens again. So many good/great goalies have been discovered in later rounds in the draft that turn out better than goalies taken before them.

I think teams overall are trending away from even taking goalies in the first round of the draft. It happens, but less frequently than in the past.

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01-26-2013, 01:24 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
MAF was amazing in the '09 playoffs (and I don't think he's a great goalie at all myself).
MAF was amazing in the '08 playoffs. He was just good enough in the '09 playoffs. The difference between the two Cup runs were Malkin and Crosby took their games to higher levels in '09, especially Malkin.

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01-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #41
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The pick was justified when they won that cup and regardless of his play after that they achieved the goal they set when they drafted him. They won with him...

Lets not forget Fleury's last second save on Lidstrom....

He was great that whole series.

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01-26-2013, 03:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
The pick was justified when they won that cup and regardless of his play after that they achieved the goal they set when they drafted him. They won with him...

Lets not forget Fleury's last second save on Lidstrom....

He was great that whole series.
So was the Blackhawks pick of Cam Barker 3rd overall justified because they won the Cup in 2010? Or was Boston's selection of Zach Hamill the correct decision because they won a Cup in 2011? Or was Los Angeles pick of Thomas Hickey 4th overall justified because they won the Cup last year?

Obviously those examples may be a bit more extreme as Fleury is still an NHL Starting Goalie but to say "Cup was won so everything the organization did was correct" is incorrect. If the Oilers never managed to pick up Gretzky they would still have won at least 1 Cup (like in 1990) but obviously won a lot more with Gretzky. I dunno what would have happened if the Pens drafted Eric Staal but I think they could have made it work when your team ends up with the two best players in the world.

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01-26-2013, 03:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
That doesn't mean that MAF was a good pick. It could have been a terrible pick in spite of what ended up happening.
But it wasn't and it still isn't

Get over it.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:20 PM
  #44
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Yes, and I have thought about this a lot. I know super nerd.
But my thinking is, the only player that could ever be better than Gretzky would have to be a goalie. Im picturing a 6'10" specimen that covers almost the whole net, but has lightning quick reflexes. In my opinion it is only a metter of time until we see a goalie like that come in and dominate. And it will change the game.

So yes

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01-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #45
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Probably, but there is a certain combination of circumstances that needs to occur.

1) Weak top end forward and d class
2) Very highly projected goalie prospect and a poor goalie market
3) Top pick belongs to a team with their biggest deficiency in goal

I think point 3 is a lot more likely to happen now that all non-playoff teams have a shot at 1st. You'll see more teams who are a goalie away from being a strong playoff team.

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01-26-2013, 03:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by hockeyGod View Post
Yes, and I have thought about this a lot. I know super nerd.
But my thinking is, the only player that could ever be better than Gretzky would have to be a goalie. Im picturing a 6'10" specimen that covers almost the whole net, but has lightning quick reflexes. In my opinion it is only a metter of time until we see a goalie like that come in and dominate. And it will change the game.

So yes
If Shaq or Dwight Howard played hockey? Hmm. Would be a quite thing to see. Those guys are almost always going to choose Basketball however. Maybe if one comes out of Canada but guys close to 7"0 are an extremely rare phenomena.

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01-26-2013, 03:48 PM
  #47
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People are really calling Fleury a bad pick? I'm probably more inclined than most to dismiss playoff success, but Fleury, at the age of 28, has played in 436 games, won 227, been to 2 finals as the starter, and won a Cup.

I don't think the Penguins regret that pick.

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01-27-2013, 09:05 AM
  #48
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So I guess that makes Anttii Niemi a success too then even though he clearly cost the Hawks some games along the way?
Yes it does, it almost doesn't matter how your goalie performs during the season, if they show up and helps you win during the playoffs that goaltender is a success.

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01-27-2013, 01:34 PM
  #49
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People are really calling Fleury a bad pick? I'm probably more inclined than most to dismiss playoff success, but Fleury, at the age of 28, has played in 436 games, won 227, been to 2 finals as the starter, and won a Cup.

I don't think the Penguins regret that pick.
I don't think it was a terrible pick, but the question is could they had more than 1 cup with Eric Staal or Suter instead of Fluery it is certainly and interesting question. He has alot of wins but his numbers in the playoffs leave something to be desired, I think if Pitts could go back they might make a different choice.

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01-28-2013, 08:40 AM
  #50
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I doubt it. Look at how well Dipietro has worked out for the Islanders.

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