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Old
01-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #26
BlueBaron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
Fair response.

I do admit that this trade is in NJ's favour. I didn't realise that he was held in such high regard by the Leafs. A bit like Zubrus for the Devils.
He's just one of our few decent defensive forwards who also has nice offensive upside. He's also pretty young and has some size. With Lupul out for 6 weeks we are definitely still in rebuilding mode this year.

It's nice that other teams show interest in him but he is an important piece for us who we really have no replacement for.

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:48 AM
  #27
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We're a young team. Why would we trade a young core player for a
34 year old?

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:49 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
NJ gives:

Henrik Tallinder + 3rd 2013
1 year remaining at $3,375,000
34 year old Top 4 veteran defender.

TOR gives:

Nikolai Kulemin
1 year remaining at $2,800,000
26 year old Top 9 winger.

New Jersey gains a youngish winger for the top three lines where depth is needed. Coming off a down year stats wise, but is good in all three zones and fills the hole left by Ponikarovsky. It is likely that at this age, Kulemin has maxed out, or is close to his potential.

Toronto gains a stable veteran two-way defender than can shore up the top 6. Is coming off a downish (unpredictable injury) year, but can be seen as a victim of New Jersey's strength in depth on the blue line. The pick adds a little sweetener considering the difference in age.
A 34 year old for a 26 year old? That should be enough to there to tell you this won't happen.

Also, if you are following the Leafs, you should note that they are carrying 8 NHL dmen. Nonis stated yesterday that they will likely deal a dman since they have an abundance but will likely wait until the 10 games mark.

Since L.A. is looking for NHL dmen -- I wouldn't be surprised to see Bernier come to Toronto in a deal once Quick proves he's healthy. Bernier has already asked for a trade.

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:52 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
I'm not so sure that the Leafs have a defensive core that is playoff worthy. Adding a player like Tallinder enables them to spread minutes more evenly and, looking at the roster, steps in as #3.

Obviously Kulemin is hot property, given the Leafs depth at forward. I think this is a decent trade for the leafs if their ambition is to make the playoffs this season.
Leafs bigger problems aren't the d-core but goaltending and center ice. They have a serious need for a top tender. In an ideal world they need a number one center with size.

Overall there d isn't bad but even Carlyle has failed to eliminate the odd man rushes and get the forwards to buy into coming back to help out. Any d-core left to fend for themselves with 3 on 2's, 4 on 2's will show cracks.

Everyone can use a Shea Weber but Talinder isn't an upgrade.

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Old
01-25-2013, 09:58 AM
  #30
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When will teams realize Kulemin is not for sale...

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:02 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Leafs bigger problems aren't the d-core but goaltending and center ice. They have a serious need for a top tender. In an ideal world they need a number one center with size.

Overall there d isn't bad but even Carlyle has failed to eliminate the odd man rushes and get the forwards to buy into coming back to help out. Any d-core left to fend for themselves with 3 on 2's, 4 on 2's will show cracks.

Everyone can use a Shea Weber but Talinder isn't an upgrade.
Not sure I agree with you here.. they've clearly been much, much better this year in their defensive play, and generally look like a whole different team compared to last year. I think that's more or less universally agreed upon.

I do agree with you on the Tallinder front - when we already have a defensive surplus in depth why would we ever seek to add to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak
When will teams realize Kulemin is not for sale...
Don't be absurd - for the right price Kulemin is absolutely on the table.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:06 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post


Seriously...

Gunnar started more defensive zone starts than Tallinder last year

And I shake my head that Kulemin has been classified as a 7 goal guy after playing four full years in the league and having scored 15, 16, and 30 goals in the years prior. You aren't being just a little bit selective in the stats you choose now are you? He currently has 3P in 4 GP while playing and excellent two way game. He isn't getting dealt, at least not for Tallinder.
thats probably because Tallinder missed half the year....

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:07 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Not sure I agree with you here.. they've clearly been much, much better this year in their defensive play, and generally look like a whole different team compared to last year. I think that's more or less universally agreed upon.

I do agree with you on the Tallinder front - when we already have a defensive surplus in depth why would we ever seek to add to it.




Don't be absurd - for the right price Kulemin is absolutely on the table.
With the exception of the Islanders game, but yes they seem to be improving. After a full year with Randy we will be fine.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:10 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
When will teams realize Kulemin is not for sale...
When the Leafs make the post-lockout playoffs

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #35
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No way Toronto sells this low on Kulemin. He's a very good player whose value is rock bottom right now.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:14 AM
  #36
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We're going to hang on to Kulemin. We have D ready to step in and we're actually looking to ship out one of our very own to make space for Holzer.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rochester Rocket View Post
When the Leafs make the post-lockout playoffs
Lol, That's fair.

If it's depth reasons, why not MacArthur? only issue is what would you send? we don't need a D as discussed here. and your goalies are a little older then we'd like.

Obviously you wouldn't want to trade anything too important if your trying to make another run. But do you guys have any young wingers either ready for the jump? or almost ready? I personally would love to find a young guy for the future to play with Kadri. Not sure how other Leaf fans would feel (probably would want a draft pick if anything)

Also would there even be interest in Macarthur instead of Kule?

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:18 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
No way Toronto sells this low on Kulemin. He's a very good player whose value is rock bottom right now.
He'll go to the Penns when they decide to overpay significantly.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:20 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDose86 View Post
Lol, That's fair.

If it's depth reasons, why not MacArthur? only issue is what would you send? we don't need a D as discussed here. and your goalies are a little older then we'd like.

Obviously you wouldn't want to trade anything too important if your trying to make another run. But do you guys have any young wingers either ready for the jump? or almost ready? I personally would love to find a young guy for the future to play with Kadri. Not sure how other Leaf fans would feel (probably would want a draft pick if anything)

Also would there even be interest in Macarthur instead of Kule?
We don't have any forwards other than Matteau that are even close to NHL ready, that's why we're looking for forwards via trade.

Doubtful New Jersey gives up picks, with the draft in Newark this year and the Kovy penalty looming in 2013 or 2014.

Our defensive logjam is pretty much our only area of surplus at the moment.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:31 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM17 View Post
Last year Kulemin was "Parise and then NJ adds". I'm curious to see how this plays out
please quote any post that said anything like that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
The Leafs defense sucks.

Komisarek is awful, and they're relying on AHL vets like Mike Kostka to step in and play a big role.
you must be a pro scout and watch a lot of hockey, excellent synopsis

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
Ouch, I knew it wasn't the best proposal in the world. But that's low...


Older D-man is not a need for us, we are not competing but rather rebuilding. Defensive aware forwards is something we dont have plenty of so Kulemin fills a need now and for the future. Kulemin have offensive potential even do I doubt he will be a consistent scorer. But his overall game makes up for it.

So for me, no deal.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
please quote any post that said anything like that



you must be a pro scout and watch a lot of hockey, excellent synopsis
I can assure you there were more than one person saying that NJ would have to add to Parise to get Kulemin

he isn't making it up.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:42 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
Agreed. I don't think he does. But he is most definitely better than the majority of defenders on the Leafs blue line. Not even sure if that's debatable. My apologies if the Leafs intend to continue building.

I don't even want to see Tallinder traded. He's a very good #4 on NJ. Problem is, so is Volchenkov, Zidlicky, Larsson and Harrold can play effective #6 minutes. Tallinder plays a skillset that can be replaced by Larsson, Greene, Fayne and to an extent Salvador.

I understand that Kulemin is highly regarded by Leafs fans. Two years off a 30 goal season. But the fact that he was 7th in TOI/G for the Leafs last season (not to mention only 7 goals) does somewhat lower his trade value.
Not a horrendous proposal, but rather one that doesn't really make sense for us. Tallinder's the type of guy you add for a final acquisition before a playoff push at the deadline, the Leafs are nowhere close to being a playoff team so it really doesn't make sense.

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Old
01-25-2013, 10:54 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
I can assure you there were more than one person saying that NJ would have to add to Parise to get Kulemin

he isn't making it up.
ahem! surely you mis-remember sir.....either that or some of you missed what was obviously a jest of the most sarcastic kind

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Old
01-25-2013, 11:35 AM
  #45
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After zajacs bad season two years ago would we have given him up for a 34 year old defenseman. No. Although zajac is quite a bit better than kulemin. He had a bad year like zajac did.
As a devil fan born and raised in Toronto I get to watch a lot if leaf games and devil games. Before You say leaf hater and biased hear me out. I am a leaf fan, but hate the organization with a passion. I haven't supported the leads since 88, but am just as passionate about the team as so called true leaf fans.
I am gonna say this. If tallinder was on your team, he would arguably be your best defenseman.
He can argued to be the best defenseman in nj, although Greene is IMO, which is a team that went to the finals last year. To say he is number 4 on the worst defensive team is a joke.
That d is a joke. The only d that are top four are gunnarson and liles. Phaneuf is barely a top four defenseman because he is so bad positionally and defensively. But the fact he is decent with the puck and pops in a goal or an assist every other game, people seem to forget how bad he is, contract aside. Gardiner is questionable at this time. I like him and he has a good future, but leaf fans are already talking like he is ready to win the Norris, when there are a couple dozen young d that are questionably as good or better. His defensive game is in question. Nothing wrong with that but because he moves the puck so well, people don't seem to notice that. Luckily he has a good coach in Carlyle and hopefully doesn't regress like your other future Norris schenn did.
Tallinder would make your d better, but the leafs should just continue with what they have. As for kulemin. Doesn't make sense to trade him when his value is low.


Last edited by Puckclektr: 01-25-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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Old
01-25-2013, 11:46 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britdevil View Post
I'm not so sure that the Leafs have a defensive core that is playoff worthy. Adding a player like Tallinder enables them to spread minutes more evenly and, looking at the roster, steps in as #3.

Obviously Kulemin is hot property, given the Leafs depth at forward. I think this is a decent trade for the leafs if their ambition is to make the playoffs this season.
Totally, completely, utterly untempting. Kulemin deserves some patience after an off year. There is too great a chance that he could be a real contributor again. Besides, even when he's not scoring goals, he's a valuable all around player. No way Leafs touch such a proposal with a ten foot pool.

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Old
01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
ahem! surely you mis-remember sir.....either that or some of you missed what was obviously a jest of the most sarcastic kind
Probably an exaggeration to state that it would take an over payment to acquire Kulemin.

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Old
01-25-2013, 11:56 AM
  #48
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Kulemin for an unsigned Clarkson + pick

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:00 PM
  #49
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No from the Leafs. Tallinder is overrated on these boards. Kulemin will rebound and is still worth more anyways.

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:03 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
I can assure you there were more than one person saying that NJ would have to add to Parise to get Kulemin

he isn't making it up.
Shouldn't be hard to find a quote then...

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