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Capitals vs Canadiens (Doom & Gloom #3 Edition).1.24.13.7:00 PM EST

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #701
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Read it again..I didnt make the claim.
It really is a generic question. I didn't mean to insinuate you made the claim. As you said others have including Oates, Brouwer, other players, fans, media, etc.

My question to anyone is can you yourself see a lack of effort? I guess I'm looking for specifics here. Like what did Brouwer see from players x and y that caused him to react the way he did. Is a perceived lack of effort simply a result of not knowing and not reacting to a given situation in a new system. IDK.

There are many guys on this team that are fighting for whatever whether it's winning a Cup, to extending a career, to getting a new contract, to just staying in the NHL.

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01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #702
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Varly just got a shutout. I know it's Columbus, but Montreal isn't that far up the scale from them anyways.

Can someone take Stanislav Galiev off the prospects list? It pisses me off.

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01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #703
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Doesn't look like they are playing for Oates either eh?

Constantly blaming coaches entrenches the players in their mindset and sends a bad message IMO.

Besides..who brought all these coaches aboard?? Who's bright idea was it to hire an inexperienced coaching staff for a team in our position?
Yeah, I mentioned that after the game yesterday. That this team right now looks the same as when they stopped playing for Bruce. That is definitely concerning, especially this early in the season.

And you're right, at some point you've got to say we tried changing coaches, it didn't work. Now its time to get rid of the core.

If this season turns out to be an absolute disaster, I think you do just that.

But will Ted/GMGM do that?

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01-25-2013, 12:34 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Was Calle even coaching before they hired him here? What was he doing, anyone know?
Not sure but I do know he was a broadcaster over in Sweden for sometime.

Either way he doesn't look like he has a clue. Great player. Questionable upstairs tho

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01-25-2013, 12:36 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Yeah, I mentioned that after the game yesterday. That this team right now looks the same as when they stopped playing for Bruce. That is definitely concerning, especially this early in the season.

And you're right, at some point you've got to say we tried changing coaches, it didn't work. Now its time to get rid of the core.

If this season turns out to be an absolutely disaster, I think you do just that.
I don't know. I doubt they trade Ovechkin or Backstrom. If you think getting rid of Green will help then you probably thought getting rid of Semin would help too.

I think we have some good pieces but we don't have all the right pieces nor do we have someone who can bring the right pieces here.

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01-25-2013, 12:41 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I don't know. I doubt they trade Ovechkin or Backstrom. If you think getting rid of Green will help then you probably thought getting rid of Semin would help too.

I think we have some good pieces but we don't have all the right pieces nor do we have someone who can bring the right pieces here.
I think GMGM is more suited as a scout. The guy is exceptionally good at picking talent. Where he lacks is in his understanding of creating a team. Creating a team isn't as simple as bringing in talent (see 2011 Philadelphia Eagles). He lacks that vision.

And I'm not sure Ted knows how to pick the correct GM. He kind of lucked out with having McPhee already on the team when he bought it. Even though McPhee is flawed like I said, he could still pick up talent. And the talent allowed us to win in the regular season. He's trying the same thing with Ernie with his basketball team. I don't think he knows what he's doing. He's trying the same thing with the Wizards that he did with the Caps.

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01-25-2013, 12:42 PM
  #707
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Can someone take Stanislav Galiev off the prospects list? It pisses me off.
Why...?

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01-25-2013, 12:42 PM
  #708
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I think we need to back up first to the what before the why. The players themselves also ripped their own effort so it's been set up on a tee for writers and talking heads to amplify. I don't see any signs of Hunter's defensive systems, be it man at 5v5 or the PK. I see the same slow, lazy and generally ineffective forecheck and that's about it. I don't think dogging it in solidarity with your supposed leader is tolerable under any circumstance. In any event, even if McPhee were to be fired I tend to doubt the general philosophy behind their moves would change a whole lot as most of that 'vision' is dictated by Leonsis.

More likely IMO: this core group doesn't care about the consequences of not putting in the necessary work to win. They're used to the regular season largely coming easy to them thanks to deep rosters once compiled by McPhee. Not having a deeper skilled lineup has changed the bent of the roster which hasn't been smoothed over at all by better habits. They have long been less than the sum of their parts even with those deeper teams and will continue to be as long as they don't respect the game. McPhee trying to compensate for that by adding marginal grinders left and right just complicates the issue further.

What impact players they do have don't appear to hold one another truly accountable for being prepared and focused. (Perhaps because to talk in such a manner credibly above mere frustration it must first be applied to yourself.) The longer this goes on and Ovechkin doesn't at least produce offensively the more he becomes an organizational distraction. He is the elephant in the room. Regardless of any other dysfunction it's on him to be supremely prepared and lead. He isn't doing that. As an organization they have babied that guy his entire career and are reaping the consequences of it. They have challenged him now and then half-heartedly but they have utterly failed to spur any on-ice maturation whatsoever. It's a two-way street, of course, but it's headed down the wrong path. Putting him back at LW is like throwing up their hands.

I don't think there's an easy answer aside from the core group taking responsibility for their game and making a positive consistent impact. I don't expect a true 100% effort any time soon under the circumstances. That first requires a higher level of preparation than they've shown and this has the look of a team that's almost beaten before they step on the ice.
I find it ironic that Brouwer is ripping people for effort when he's sitting comfortably in the penalty box because he took the delay of game penalty setting up the 5 on 3. The goal came with only 4 seconds left in the 5 on 3. Brouwer even admits that he had plenty of time and it shouldn't have gone over.

I know what OV did was a penalty but Markov could have been called for diving. OV was in a previous game when someone took him out and gave him a questionable diving penalty. The refs are micro managing OV and I don't like it. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

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01-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #709
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Jeezus - that was as excrutiating a fan experience as any I've ever had. By the end I wanted to poke my eyes out. At least when we were watching Darcy Verot, we knew what we were getting.

Ovechkin . . . doesn't . . . move. The ratio of time on ice when his feet move to time on ice when they don't is not good. On the PP, he just stood on the left side and wondered why the puck didn't come to him. No effort to create a better lane for the passer, no effort to engage/distract the D to open up space for his mates, just nothing.

On 5 on 5, he really needs to play with some puck retrievers -- long ago, Zubie and Clark were good linemates for him because they went and got pucks and won board battles. Who on this team does that for us now - who is determined, puck retrieving, board battling forward? I dunno.

Nicky had no zip last night. MattyP showed more energy than any other forward, and Johansson actually played better than the previous 2 games. But they don't really go get pucks either.

Thought Neuvy gave up much too big a rebound on goal 2 for the Habs, and should have had goal 4. Cannot understand why Alzner abandoned the slot guy on goal 3.

So we go down 2-0, where is the guy on our team that says (and plays like): "Fug this, we are not gonna lose, and we are not gonna have a pity party. We are gonna get pissed and bear down and get the next goal." Answer: that guy does not exist. My kids' youth hockey teams show more resilience if they get down a goal or two than the Caps displayed last night.

And I'm sorry that Hendricks got pounded, but he did elbow that Hab in the head and it went uncalled. No shame in that, he was continuing to play hard. But we all saw how Prust did not hesitate - his teammate got smacked in the head via a questionable hit, and Prust immediately moved to pound Hendy. Contrast that with the utter lack of response when Bourque hit Nicky.

This team looked completely hopeless last night.

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01-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
It really is a generic question.

My question to anyone is can you yourself see a lack of effort?
I haven't seen any more lack of effort than I have seen in every game for the past 2 regular seasons.

Is a player ever going to say the coaches systems being implemented have left most all of us overthinking every thing we are doing on the ice?

That Sow your royal Oatsie has asked too much, too soon?

Has anyone ever heard of player say that the coach is a fool for the run PK a certain way, etc? No, they just say we have to try harder. Which implies they didn't try hard enough, which implies a lack of effort. Never, "we pressured the puck last year, but not this year, but that cant be it."

Its all bunk - an easy excuse. Anyone that tells the truth to the media will soon be in Yonkmanville.

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01-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #711
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I haven't seen any more lack of effort than I have seen in every game for the past 2 regular seasons.

Is a player ever going to say the coaches systems being implemented have left most all of us overthinking every thing we are doing on the ice?

That Sow your royal Oatsie has asked too much, too soon?

Has anyone ever heard of player say that the coach is a fool for the run PK a certain way, etc? No, they just say we have to try harder. Which implies they didn't try hard enough, which implies a lack of effort. Never, "we pressured the puck last year, but not this year, but that cant be it."

Its all bunk - an easy excuse. Anyone that tells the truth to the media will soon be in Yonkmanville.
As much as I disliked Hunter and his uncanny way of doing things I now have to give credit where it's due unless something drastically changes. For all of his faults he seemed to get a high level of effort.

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01-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #712
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Seriously, the fact Hunter got this group to play hard is a miracle and limiting Ovechkin's ice time doesn't look stupid now.

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01-25-2013, 01:28 PM
  #713
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I think GMGM is more suited as a scout. The guy is exceptionally good at picking talent. Where he lacks is in his understanding of creating a team. Creating a team isn't as simple as bringing in talent (see 2011 Philadelphia Eagles). He lacks that vision.

And I'm not sure Ted knows how to pick the correct GM. He kind of lucked out with having McPhee already on the team when he bought it. Even though McPhee is flawed like I said, he could still pick up talent. And the talent allowed us to win in the regular season. He's trying the same thing with Ernie with his basketball team. I don't think he knows what he's doing. He's trying the same thing with the Wizards that he did with the Caps.
No question GMGM and Co. have been one of the best drafting front offices since the lockout. There is no dispute there. Would he take a demotion like that however?

GMGM has a good reputation around the league and another team would most likely give him the keys.

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01-25-2013, 01:28 PM
  #714
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Their skill players are not leaders. There's a clear lack of focus. A lack of a goal, i.e Stanley Cup. Boudreau came in the 1st year, let them play pond hockey and made the playoffs and each year following it was Cup or bust, so they played with at least some standard of excellence. Is Oates preaching Cup or is he still learning his job on the fly? Is he the right guy for a team with a Championship window?

It might be the disastrous hire that ends it for GMGM.

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01-25-2013, 01:30 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Seriously, the fact Hunter got this group to play hard is a miracle and limiting Ovechkin's ice time doesn't look stupid now.
You know what does look stupid though?

Ovechkin at RW.

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01-25-2013, 01:37 PM
  #716
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You know what does look stupid though?

Ovechkin at RW.
Or him seeing any PK minutes.

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01-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
You know what does look stupid though?

Ovechkin at RW.
Ovechkin is playing RW???? Could have fooled me...everytime I looked up he was dashing down the left wing boards....

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01-25-2013, 01:42 PM
  #718
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Or him seeing any PK minutes.
Or playing LD on the PP.

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01-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #719
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Ovechkin is playing RW???? Could have fooled me...everytime I looked up he was dashing down the left wing boards....
Which is the funniest ****ing part of this whole situation, because I agree. It seems almost 80% of the time, he traveled through the neutral zone on the left side. Then you have the hilariously pathetic moments when he was running into the other winger(Brouwer?) and coughing up the puck or having the other winger incredibly out of position trying to get to the right side, but never fully getting there.

**** is just dumb. Let the dude play LW.

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01-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #720
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I think GM getting fired is long overdue, and I haven't thought much of any of the recent coaches, still... this team just doesn't give a ****. It's that simple. Pick at whatever problem you want, and there are many, but it starts with these guys not giving the proper effort. The only man that's made them even the slightest bit accountable was Hunter and, despite how mind-numbingly-boring his system was, they at least won some games because they were a pain in the ass to play against. These three games of s*** we've seen this year are the same no effort bull**** they were giving during BBs final days. More than anything, or anyone, or any system, the player core doesn't give a ****. If the owner wasn't a moron he'd clean the f***ing house out.

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01-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #721
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I too see more rushes at LW than RW, and he is still failing trying his move.

The same failed move that precipitated him wanting to move in the first place.

He has played 60 minutes at RW. After all he has done for this franchise, I fully support him wanting to do anything to try to make himself better, even if he has to take a step back to accomplish it.

If its a miserable disaster holding the team back, Oates or George should be smart enough to recognize it and ask him to hold off until he can have a full preseason to practice.

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01-25-2013, 02:14 PM
  #722
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Which is the funniest ****ing part of this whole situation, because I agree. It seems almost 80% of the time, he traveled through the neutral zone on the left side. Then you have the hilariously pathetic moments when he was running into the other winger(Brouwer?) and coughing up the puck or having the other winger incredibly out of position trying to get to the right side, but never fully getting there.

**** is just dumb. Let the dude play LW.
Yeah I noted that several times last night. He's played LW all his life and thats where his instincts draw him so it will take him some time to go against those.

Its not a bad idea by Oates to do it but really 8 needs to pick it up a bit quicker if we want to salvage the season.

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01-25-2013, 02:29 PM
  #723
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My brief 2cs on this game. Team is just out of sync right now so most players look not so good. Not surprising that the bottom six started to look better at the new scheme. Thought green looked pretty good.

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01-25-2013, 02:33 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Their skill players are not leaders. There's a clear lack of focus. A lack of a goal, i.e Stanley Cup. Boudreau came in the 1st year, let them play pond hockey and made the playoffs and each year following it was Cup or bust, so they played with at least some standard of excellence. Is Oates preaching Cup or is he still learning his job on the fly? Is he the right guy for a team with a Championship window?

It might be the disastrous hire that ends it for GMGM.
Brian Burke/Ron Wilson to the rescue...

Can you imagine...

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01-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #725
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My brief 2cs on this game. Team is just out of sync right now so most players look not so good. Not surprising that the bottom six started to look better at the new scheme. Thought green looked pretty good.
I thought Green looked better for sure. He had what 5 shots? He was rushing the puck too...that's what he needs to get back to.

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