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01-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #176
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I sure dont think 5 Mil for a player is a bargain.
I don't think anybody said he'll be a bargain at 5M in 2 years, maybe in 3-4years though, at 26-27. Not sure why it's such a crazy thought though, but that's another story.
But where does that put his current worth then?

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01-25-2013, 11:59 AM
  #177
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Because Bergevin would likely match that offer. If it is a 5M cap hit over 7y.
Also, rules have changed. So if it was meant as 7y at 5M= 35M deal.
Under the new CBA, the total amount of the contract is always divided by 5 no matter how many more years you got.
So the cap hit would end up being 35M/5y= 7M cap hit. That's quite high.

Offersheets have become more complicated to do.


Doesn't stop a team from offering 5 on 25 instead.

And Bergevin being able to match is exactly my point. He's calling Bergevin a retard and that he's screwing up the process, but at first view it might look a bit like that, but I would wait and see what will happen before calling MB a retard, because there is much we don't know yet. How it will be finalized will give us a good view on MB's work. But calling him a retard at this moment is just childish and is the display of someone who is frustrated by the situation and needs an outlet for that frustration.

We see a lot of that on HF.

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01-25-2013, 12:00 PM
  #178
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I don't think anybody said he'll be a bargain at 5M in 2 years,
guess you havent followed the thread much lately.

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01-25-2013, 12:01 PM
  #179
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You are correct Markov is looking good. I have noticed hime lacking a little in his lateral movement when taking a pass along the blueline in the FLA game and he seems to favor his hight knee a bit but that is to be expected. Hope he can keep up this play and hope for the best fingers crossed.
Wasn't he operated to the right knee???

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01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
  #180
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Wasn't he operated to the right knee???
Oops typo lol. Yes his right knee is the one repaired which is why I said it was to be expected.

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01-25-2013, 12:14 PM
  #181
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Doesn't stop a team from offering 5 on 25 instead.

And Bergevin being able to match is exactly my point. He's calling Bergevin a retard and that he's screwing up the process, but at first view it might look a bit like that, but I would wait and see what will happen before calling MB a retard, because there is much we don't know yet. How it will be finalized will give us a good view on MB's work. But calling him a retard at this moment is just childish and is the display of someone who is frustrated by the situation and needs an outlet for that frustration.

We see a lot of that on HF.
Sure, they could offer 5 for 25, but as you just said Bergevin would be able to match and would do it because the compensation for such a small deal would be really weak. So, that's the most logical reason as to why he hasn't gotten any offers imo, it's not because other GMs wouldn't offer him that much.

As for Bergevin being called a retard, as you said, it's HF buddy. We played three games. After game one, it was ''PK! PK! PK!'' in the stands, after the next two wins, it's ''we don't actually need him, trade him''. You know how it goes here.

Personally, I disagree with Bergevin and his tactics. I don't think every youngster deserves to go through bridge contracts. I think those type of contracts are given to players that have struggled in their roles (or either suffered injuries and therefore, have become question marks), and if you look at all the guys on our team that have signed those type of deals, they all fall under that category. Eller, Weber, MaxPac, Gorges, Price, Emelin, Diaz, have all struggled in their respective roles at some point or suffered injuries that halted their progress. So for guys like that, I can understand why you'd give them bridge deals.
PK however, is the sole one that has jumped right into a top role and did well. Very well actually. Yes, it was by default, but what matters is that he did very well.
So, I think he's well worth the risk moving forward. I'd rather lock him up now at a cheaper price for longer, than sign him to a short deal now and renegotiate in 2 year because I think he'll cost us a lot more in 2 years than he would right now. But that's just my opinion.
But every GM makes mistakes, doesn't mean they're completely incompetent. I agree with you, too much is unknown for now, in a couple of years we'll have better judgement.

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01-25-2013, 12:20 PM
  #182
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Oops typo lol. Yes his right knee is the one repaired which is why I said it was to be expected.
Expected that he would rely more on the knee he was operated to???

That doesn't make sense, but should I be surprised.

Does the crow taste any good at this time of the year?

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01-25-2013, 12:23 PM
  #183
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Sure, they could offer 5 for 25, but as you just said Bergevin would be able to match and would do it because the compensation for such a small deal would be really weak. So, that's the most logical reason as to why he hasn't gotten any offers imo, it's not because other GMs wouldn't offer him that much.

As for Bergevin being called a retard, as you said, it's HF buddy. We played three games. After game one, it was ''PK! PK! PK!'' in the stands, after the next two wins, it's ''we don't actually need him, trade him''. You know how it goes here.

Personally, I disagree with Bergevin and his tactics. I don't think every youngster deserves to go through bridge contracts. I think those type of contracts are given to players that have struggled in their roles (or either suffered injuries and therefore, have become question marks), and if you look at all the guys on our team that have signed those type of deals, they all fall under that category. Eller, Weber, MaxPac, Gorges, Price, Emelin, Diaz, have all struggled in their respective roles at some point or suffered injuries that halted their progress. So for guys like that, I can understand why you'd give them bridge deals.
PK however, is the sole one that has jumped right into a top role and did well. Very well actually. Yes, it was by default, but what matters is that he did very well.
So, I think he's well worth the risk moving forward. I'd rather lock him up now at a cheaper price for longer, than sign him to a short deal now and renegotiate in 2 year because I think he'll cost us a lot more in 2 years than he would right now. But that's just my opinion.
But every GM makes mistakes, doesn't mean they're completely incompetent. I agree with you, too much is unknown for now, in a couple of years we'll have better judgement.
Oh, I would also go long term, and it is annoying that this hasn't been settled yet. But I'll wait and see what will happen. But those MB photo ops with the likes of Pedneault and others are creeping me out. Seems like MB is more interested in getting brownie points from the media, hence influencing a good reputation from the everyday fans.

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01-25-2013, 12:25 PM
  #184
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The fact that nothing came out about this morning's meeting in Toronto...a good sign? Maybe offers back and forth?

If it had gone bad we would have heard abouta short and sweet meeting.

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01-25-2013, 12:30 PM
  #185
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So Guy Carbonneau was on RDS the other day and divulgred 'priveledged' information about Subban/Meehan. He said that Don Meehan has advised PK to take the 2 year deal on numerous occasions, but that PK refuses to do so.

Yet when questioned about this...Don Meehan said

"I don't know how Guy could obtain priveledged information about my discussions with Bergevin".

The PK Subban smear campaign continues...
Glad Carbo is ruining any chance he would have of getting a coaching job again.

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01-25-2013, 12:31 PM
  #186
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The fact that nothing came out about this morning's meeting in Toronto...a good sign? Maybe offers back and forth?

If it had gone bad we would have heard abouta short and sweet meeting.
I hope it's a sign that he signs soon. If not, this may get ugly. Let's hope for the best.

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01-25-2013, 12:39 PM
  #187
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Just curious, would you trade PK + Eller + 2nd pick for Ovechkin ?
Ovie terrifies me, I think there's a good chance he will pick it up if he gets out of the downward spiral in DC, but he complete inability or refusal to adjust his game means the pressure might be too much anywhere.

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01-25-2013, 12:42 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post


Doesn't stop a team from offering 5 on 25 instead.

And Bergevin being able to match is exactly my point. He's calling Bergevin a retard and that he's screwing up the process, but at first view it might look a bit like that, but I would wait and see what will happen before calling MB a retard, because there is much we don't know yet. How it will be finalized will give us a good view on MB's work. But calling him a retard at this moment is just childish and is the display of someone who is frustrated by the situation and needs an outlet for that frustration.

We see a lot of that on HF.
so if galchenyuk sticks and puts up 20g next year and 28 the year after ,is bergevin gonna pull the same crap?cause i'll tell you now ,chucky will be lookin for huge dollars if that happens.

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01-25-2013, 12:43 PM
  #189
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I hope it's a sign that he signs soon. If not, this may get ugly. Let's hope for the best.
Hopefully they get on the same page in terms of year and not too far apart on $$$/year.

If a "bridge' contract will cost 4.5-5 mil, may as well sign a back loaded 5-6 year deal like Zajac and Benn.

6 years 30 mil. 3.5 mil 4 mil 5 mil 5.5 mil 6 mil 6 mil

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01-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Hopefully they get on the same page in terms of year and not too far apart on $$$/year.

If a "bridge' contract will cost 4.5-5 mil, may as well sign a back loaded 5-6 year deal like Zajac and Benn.

6 years 30 mil. 3.5 mil 4 mil 5 mil 5.5 mil 6 mil 6 mil
i think Bergevin would prefer paying a bit more in the later years and not lock it up now than doing that deal.

I totally see why you made that suggestion and I don't disagree with you, I just don't think Bergy wants the extra years and is willing to pay for it.

What I don't get is why PK does. Even Benn wanted the bridge contract because in the long run, the player gets paid more everytime I can think of.

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01-25-2013, 12:56 PM
  #191
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...nging-diaz-hot

This article about Yakupov and his enthusiasm/emotion reminds me a lot of PK. Good quotes from Tambellini.

"First of all, he loves hockey," Oilers GM Steve Tambellini told ESPN.com Friday. "We can’t get him out of the dressing room, he’s there the whole day. I think he’s always been that player that when he’s excited, he has a tough time controlling his emotions because he’s so happy. You don’t want to take a personality away from a player, that’s who he is."

Most of that also applies to PK...his energy and enthusiasm is not soimething you want him to lose because it makes him a good player. Therien seems to demand more emotion out of his players instead of trying to stifle it like JM.

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01-25-2013, 01:00 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
so if galchenyuk sticks and puts up 20g next year and 28 the year after ,is bergevin gonna pull the same crap?cause i'll tell you now ,chucky will be lookin for huge dollars if that happens.
So what if the doomsayers were wrong about 2012 and the actual end of the world is just a few months after december 21st????

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01-25-2013, 01:02 PM
  #193
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so if galchenyuk sticks and puts up 20g next year and 28 the year after ,is bergevin gonna pull the same crap?cause i'll tell you now ,chucky will be lookin for huge dollars if that happens.
Well, if Subban gets a long term deal now, then Galchenyuk/Beaulieu/Gallagher/Tinordi/etc. will be well within their rights to ask for a long term deal after 2 years of experience.

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01-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #194
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Well, if Subban gets a long term deal now, then Galchenyuk/Beaulieu/Gallagher/Tinordi/etc. will be well within their rights to ask for a long term deal after 2 years of experience.
and the Habs would be well within their right to refuse to do so...I think it's a bit unrealistic to apply a blanket policy to ALL players.

But if that's how they want to do things...more power to them.

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01-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #195
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so if galchenyuk sticks and puts up 20g next year and 28 the year after ,is bergevin gonna pull the same crap?cause i'll tell you now ,chucky will be lookin for huge dollars if that happens.
Montreal needs to step off these old "principle" traditions. They are archaic and often put us at a disadvantage for little to no reason. Frankly, it only worked for Price because he happened to struggle during his contract here and Halak was around. Highly touted young players like Subban and Galchenyuk will be looking for deals comparable to what Benn just signed.

Assume your scenario plays out and Gally does accept a bridge. In the interim he has two 90 point seasons. Now the renewal will cost us substantially more than were he linked long term already. This is why I am generally against this bridging philosophy.

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01-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
i think Bergevin would prefer paying a bit more in the later years and not lock it up now than doing that deal.

I totally see why you made that suggestion and I don't disagree with you, I just don't think Bergy wants the extra years and is willing to pay for it.

What I don't get is why PK does. Even Benn wanted the bridge contract because in the long run, the player gets paid more everytime I can think of.
Some players prefer long terms security over a few more dollars.

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01-25-2013, 01:08 PM
  #197
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Hopefully they get on the same page in terms of year and not too far apart on $$$/year.

If a "bridge' contract will cost 4.5-5 mil, may as well sign a back loaded 5-6 year deal like Zajac and Benn.

6 years 30 mil. 3.5 mil 4 mil 5 mil 5.5 mil 6 mil 6 mil
I thought the new CBA prevented those kinds of contracts with a max 10% variance on salary from year to year, but I might be mistaken.

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01-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #198
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Well, if Subban gets a long term deal now, then Galchenyuk/Beaulieu/Gallagher/Tinordi/etc. will be well within their rights to ask for a long term deal after 2 years of experience.
New York offered Staal five year term just shy of 20M. Del Zetto only received two years at $5.1M per.

There is no unilateral bargaining position for every players. Different players have more or less power depending on their abilities. If Gallagher only puts up 15g and 35 points during his contract year. He is in no position demand for term. Double those statistics and Montreal is moronic not to give him what he wants.

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01-25-2013, 01:16 PM
  #199
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Josh Rimer is tweeting that 3 teams have contacted the Habs over Subban

including the Flyers. He is presuming that Couturier would be the piece coming back.

Me no likey

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01-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #200
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Montreal needs to step off these old "principle" traditions. They are archaic and often put us at a disadvantage for little to no reason. Frankly, it only worked for Price because he happened to struggle during his contract here and Halak was around. Highly touted young players like Subban and Galchenyuk will be looking for deals comparable to what Benn just signed.

Assume your scenario plays out and Gally does accept a bridge. In the interim he has two 90 point seasons. Now the renewal will cost us substantially more than were he linked long term already. This is why I am generally against this bridging philosophy.
Why handcuff yourself with a philosophy, principle, or whatever you call it. As a GM, you should have all the flexibility to do whatever you need to improve your team.

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