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Let's lay off the D, the real problem with the wings is the PP.

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Old
01-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #26
Bench
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
LOL, blow off two most recent examples that show your point is incorrect. Priceless.
Boston and LA also played unbelievable team defense and had goaltenders playing out of their mind.

It's possible to win without a great powerplay, but you're certainly going to have to be exceptional at everything else.

Regardless, LA has Doughty running the point and Boston has Chara. Elite defenders in every sense.

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01-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
LOL, blow off two most recent examples that show your point is incorrect. Priceless.
I did not blow it off, those teams had goalies that played exceptionally well. Having a goalie play above outstanding hockey can make up for horrible PP/PK and 5 on 5 play.

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01-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #28
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Pretty much. We all know the defense is average to mediocre. Going 0/15 on the powerplay isn't exactly great offensive support, let alone putting up a whopping 4 goals in 3 games.

If the PP can click, we can win some games. They need to start covering for the lack of defensive ability on the scoreboard.

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01-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #29
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The pp aint just the issue. The issue is the team right now is lacking work ethic and heart. Someone needs to light that fire.

Some love to fault the D. But they don't see what else is going on, the constant blame of the D is rather rubbish, look at how the team itself is playing, not the goals that have been allowed. The pp so far this year had been a hit or miss... There's time where it looks good an theres times it looks bad. All three games the wings easily could have had a couple goals but it just didnt go in. It's only 3 games into the season wait til there's been about 10 played if no improvement on the pp then you can red flag. Like mentioned before pp aren't everything.

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01-25-2013, 02:05 PM
  #30
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Why just stick with one reason.



There are a lot of areas they need to improve in, both of the ones listed are important. In a lot of ways I have found our PK to be the most troubling special teams unit. They both stink, but at times the PP has good movement and has hit some posts, the PK has been a chase around disaster that really never looks good.

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01-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  #31
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And to be fair, STL is beastly and that game shouldn't be looked at as any sort of measuring stick. I would say take a look at CBJ and DAL games - both goalies stood on their heads. Yes, our power play needs to be better, and I'm sure it will be in time. That PK does not look pretty now or in the future, though.

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01-25-2013, 02:22 PM
  #32
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PP % of finalists
11-12 LA 12.8 NJ 15.3 (both in the bottom 8)
10-11 Boston 11.4 Vancouver 20.4 (14th and 8th)
09-10 Chicago 22.5 Philly 21.9 (5th and 7th)
08-09 Pittsburgh (20.6) Detroit (23.7) (7th and 4th)
07-08 Detroit (18.9) Pittsburgh (22.8) (9th and 4th)
06-07 Anaheim (15.2) Ottawa (19.0) (7th and 3rd)
05-06 Carolina (24.0) Edmonton (17.0) (2nd and 7th)

Interesting to see that the importance of powerplays has fallen... Maybe because there are less penalties being called in the playoffs since the lockout began? WOuld need to check that.

Here's how it looks in PP goals scored ans SH goals against

Number of powerplays for finalists
12 LA 94, NJ 85
11 BOS 88, VAN 93
10 CHI 80, PHI 105
09 PIT 97 DET 97
08 DET 106 PIT 92
07 ANA 105, OTT 95
06 CAR 129, EDM 141


You can see the refs went gangbusters on penalty calls the year back from the lockout.
There was a quick reduction in 07... and since then there's been a gradual reduction

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01-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
I did not blow it off, those teams had goalies that played exceptionally well. Having a goalie play above outstanding hockey can make up for horrible PP/PK and 5 on 5 play.
2011-12 playoffs
LA Kings
5v5 goal differential: #1 at 1.3 per 60 mins
PP success rate: #12 at 12.8%

2010-11 playoffs
Boston
5v5 goal differential: #1 at 1.5 per 60 mins
PP success rate: #14 at 11.4%

2009-10 playoffs
Chicago
5v5 goal differential: #3 at 0.5 per 60 mins
PP success rate: #5 at 22.5%

2008-09 playoffs
Pittsburgh
5v5 goal differential: tied for #3 with 0.5 per 60 mins
PP success rate: #7 at 20.6%

2007-08 playoffs
Detroit
5v5 goal differential: #1 at 0.9 per 60 mins
PP success rate: #9 at 18.9%

One of these stats shows clear correlation as every Cup winning team ranked in the top 3 among the best teams in hockey that season. The other shows no correlation whatsoever. You can have the last word since that's your thing but there is nothing to support your view. Nothing.

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01-25-2013, 02:31 PM
  #34
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I don't know. If you have a good PP you probably have some great offensive threats. And like, that could win you some games. Maybe playoff games.

I maintain the Wings need a better PP QB. Kronwall is pretty good, but not good enough to make it a top threat. A far cry from Rafalski and Lidstrom, at least.

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01-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #35
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Interesting number, Fabricoh.

There was a MAJOR change these last two years. Wonder why.

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01-25-2013, 02:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Interesting number, Fabricoh.

There was a MAJOR change these last two years. Wonder why.
Two straight goalie Con Smythe winners? Surely that plays a roll in the 5 on 5 number and the requirement for the PP to be less potent.

But I maintain those teams still had Doughty and Chara running the point, two of the best in the business, even if the numbers didn't show it.

I'd also argue the Hawks and Penguins didn't get much game stealing goalie support, so it certainly helped that their PP was over 20%.

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01-25-2013, 03:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I don't know. If you have a good PP you probably have some great offensive threats. And like, that could win you some games. Maybe playoff games.

I maintain the Wings need a better PP QB. Kronwall is pretty good, but not good enough to make it a top threat. A far cry from Rafalski and Lidstrom, at least.
I think if the Wings were able to give Kronwall a break on the PK (which they can't), Kronwall would actually have a chance to be better on the PP than Lidstrom was over the last couple years.
Kronwall is great at diving in from the Blueline. If we ever get away from that "pass the puck around the box" mentality and start getting creating, we've got enough guys to have a seriously dangerous powerplay.

Our PP is too passive and conservative.

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01-25-2013, 03:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
When the lineup was stacked the Wings always wanted their ranking for the PP and PK to add up to 10 or less. So #2 PP and #4 PK would add up to 6 which was obviously very acceptable.

I agree the power play can win you a lot of regular season games. It tends to become less successful during the playoffs when every team is playing good team defense. If there was one stat that probably tells you how good you are it is goal differential at even strength. If you have one of the best differentials you are going to have a great shot at competing for a Cup. The Wings used to dominate that stat when we had our three year run from 2006-2009. Right now we're 26th.

Considering how much of the game is played at even strength this is obviously a recipe for disaster. I do think splitting up Pavs and Z and getting Helm to center the 3rd line should improve our even strength play.
I agree. Helm seems to be the most important 3rd line center in the NHL. The team played totally different last year when he was in the line-up. His speed and work ethic changes the dynamic of the whole team.

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01-25-2013, 03:29 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
I think if the Wings were able to give Kronwall a break on the PK (which they can't), Kronwall would actually have a chance to be better on the PP than Lidstrom was over the last couple years.
Kronwall is great at diving in from the Blueline. If we ever get away from that "pass the puck around the box" mentality and start getting creating, we've got enough guys to have a seriously dangerous powerplay.

Our PP is too passive and conservative.
Kronner's stick isn't nearly as accurate as Nick's was. Lidstrom's smarts and accuracy both passing and shooting were far superior to what Kronwall brings to the table. That's not a jab at Kronwall. He just isn't in the same stratosphere as Lidstrom even at 42.

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01-25-2013, 03:35 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Our PP is too passive and conservative.
Call me old fashioned, but my favorite powerplay is simply loading up on traffic and firing at the net. Then rebounds. That's it. You've got superior numbers so just play the odds you'll get those bounces. It gives great goalies fits because they either can't see the puck or they have to track down scrums in front of the net.

It's telling that Nashville had the best PP last year. Fueled by big point shots and grinding it out near the net.

But I'm not sure how the Wings top offensive players, outside of Franzen, fit into that mold too well.

Here's an example. Look at how all the Preds fold in straight by the net on this shot. Not tick tack passing. Just 3 bodies down low ready to jump on anything that doesn't go in.



The Wings always had Holmstrom jammed in front, but left the other forwards playing the soft spots of the ice. Without a highly skilled group of passers and Lidstrom, I think it may be time to get comfortable with the dirty parts of the ice.

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01-25-2013, 03:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Capsized View Post
Kronner's stick isn't nearly as accurate as Nick's was. Lidstrom's smarts and accuracy both passing and shooting were far superior to what Kronwall brings to the table. That's not a jab at Kronwall. He just isn't in the same stratosphere as Lidstrom even at 42.
And yet Kronwall scored 15 goals last year to Lidstrom's 11 and 7 PP goals to Lidstrom's 4 (despite less PP time on the ice).

The year before Lidstrom had 16 goals and Kronwall 11. Lidstrom had 7 PPG and Kronwall 5. Lidstrom played 330 PP minutes and Kronwall 200.

The year before, Lidstrom scored 9 goals to kronwall's 7, despite Kronwall missing half the season. PP goals were 5 to 3.

Kronwall lacks the point shot cannon. But he's good at jumping into the middle, which can break the defensive box.

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01-25-2013, 04:00 PM
  #42
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Wings are 1-2 because of their poor PP. If they had a top 5 PP like they had in recent years, DRWs would easily be 2-1 right now.

Personally, I'd rather be 2-1 right now.

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01-25-2013, 04:04 PM
  #43
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I think we all expected Smith to help more. He might come along. It's still early.

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01-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #44
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I think we all expected Smith to help more. He might come along. It's still early.
You kind of have to play on the PP to help it.....

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01-25-2013, 04:13 PM
  #45
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You kind of have to play on the PP to help it.....
Smith should get some time with both White and CC out.

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01-25-2013, 04:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
You kind of have to play on the PP to help it.....
That's what I meant. He might come along. Kronwall has the most, by far, but White and Cola took the rest of the minutes for defenders. With those 2 out for bit, he might get more looks. Particularly if it continues to falter.

When people were waxing about Smith all off-season, it was with the expectation he'd put up points. But like I said, it's still early.

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01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
  #47
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the thing about the PP is unlike the D on paper it really shouldn't be anywhere near this bad

makes it all the more frustrating

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
You kind of have to play on the PP to help it.....
well he got 3:28 on the PP against Dallas and now White's injured

so he probably will

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01-25-2013, 07:21 PM
  #48
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Call me old fashioned, but my favorite powerplay is simply loading up on traffic and firing at the net.
Mickey echoed this tonight.

So I'm pretty confident that I am old fashioned.

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01-25-2013, 11:35 PM
  #49
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The problem with the point shot bomb strategy is that it's predictable. It helps to get everyone moving/cycling and get the shotblockers guessing.

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01-25-2013, 11:57 PM
  #50
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I think our subpar powerplay is a symptom of our weakened defence.

They no longer have Lidstrom to help with entries, that accurate easy to deflect shot from the point and uncanny ability to keep pucks in the zone.

Combining that with the loss of Holmstrom and its really not that surprising that they aren't producing like we're used too.

Holmstrom may not have scored much last year but he was still great at screening the goalie without blocking the shot, something Cleary just hasn't figured out.

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