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Stars defensive woes

View Poll Results: What do you think should be done with the Stars D?
Do nothing at all 2 5.00%
Switch up the pairings and minutes 11 27.50%
Ditch Robidas and callup Oleksiak 18 45.00%
Make a big move via trade 9 22.50%
None of the above 0 0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-25-2013, 02:33 PM
  #26
ginblossoms
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i voted for trade only because of the subban rumors. if there is any weight to them, then i think gm joe needs to take a stab at subban. he's exactly what the roster needs. and his value extends beyond the rink, bringing in fans with an ott-like personality.

i'd offer some combination of...
*ryder (former hab who didn't leave on bad terms (i think))
*goligoski (poor man's replacement for subban in mtl)
*bachman/nilstorp (tap into stars goalie depth while addressing mtl's goalie depth needs)
*lindell (or another dman prospect)
*robidas (hometown boy who they may be willing to take on)
draft pick (to level out the deal as seen fit)

dallas may have to take some salary back. if so, rene bourque or josh gorges could be thrown in on mtl's side.

my 2nd choice is to mix up the lines and see what happens. with my preference to think long-term, i'd rather have oleksiak mature down in austin for one full season.

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01-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #27
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Joe once again identified the core as Benn, Eriksson, Daley, Goligoski, and Lethonen so no it doesn't seem realistic to include any of those pieces in any trade proposals.

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01-25-2013, 02:38 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
You really think Joe would trade his prized possession after shipping out James Neal?
Actually, yes.
That's looked at pretty unanimously as a bad trade.
Goligoski involved in a trade for Subban helps erase the trade in a sort of, "Well, it helped us get Subban." type of way.

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01-25-2013, 02:41 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Joe once again identified the core as Benn, Eriksson, Daley, Goligoski, and Lethonen so no it doesn't seem realistic to include any of those pieces in any trade proposals.
He's going to list Goligoski because we'd notice if he didn't and he can't look like he made a mistake there..whether he thinks he did or not. I don't know that he'd trade Goligoski, but he could just spin it in the end as Neal for Subban.

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01-25-2013, 02:49 PM
  #30
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Here's a non-comprehensive list of potential trade targets I came up with several months ago. Most of these guys are on teams that will soon be in cap trouble or they have bad contracts. I tried to stick to players who realistically be traded, and not everyone on the list is a perfect fit for the Stars.

At the time, amnesty buyouts were not a certainty so some of these guys could become UFAs in the summer.

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Here are some of the D with contracts expiring over the next 3 years that I thought might be available. Most of them are on teams with cap issues.

1 year remaining
Robyn Regehr - $4.02 million
Roman Hamrlik - $3.5 million
Jordan Leopold - $3 million

2 years remaining
Jay Bouwmeester - $6.68 million (I don't believe Calgary would move him, but I'd don't doubt GMJN would jump to add him.)
Andrej Meszaros - $4 million (He seems like the perfect combination of available and filling a Dallas need. His team could be strapped for cap space, he plays both sides, he's big, mobile, and can move the puck which are all things GMJN likes.)
Brooks Orpik - $3.75 million (Potential major cap issues in Pittsburgh - Said that before they traded Michalek).
Jeff Schultz - $2.75 million (Reclamation project.)

3 years remaining
Paul Martin - $5 million (See Orpik)
Keith Ballard - $4.2 million
Andrej Sekera - $2.75 million
With prospects in the pipeline, I don't see Dallas making a big splashy or costly addition on D - costly in terms of assets (Picks/Prospects).

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01-25-2013, 03:11 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Here's a non-comprehensive list of potential trade targets I came up with several months ago. Most of these guys are on teams that will soon be in cap trouble or they have bad contracts. I tried to stick to players who realistically be traded, and not everyone on the list is a perfect fit for the Stars.

At the time, amnesty buyouts were not a certainty so some of these guys could become UFAs in the summer.



With prospects in the pipeline, I don't see Dallas making a big splashy or costly addition on D - costly in terms of assets (Picks/Prospects).
Orpik and Regehr all day.

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01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #32
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So the people on the Montreal board feel Subban is worth Oleksiak, Ritchie, A throw in, and a first. Riiiight.

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01-25-2013, 03:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
So the people on the Montreal board feel Subban is worth Oleksiak, Ritchie, A throw in, and a first. Riiiight.

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01-25-2013, 03:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
So the people on the Montreal board feel Subban is worth Oleksiak, Ritchie, A throw in, and a first. Riiiight.
IMO its not that bad, young top pairing d-men arent cheap(even if they are unsigned). But Oleksiak is the dealbreaker for me.

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01-25-2013, 03:54 PM
  #35
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Everybody always thinks players are worth more than they are, and then when a trade happens people act surprised.

Like one guy offered Leblanc, Collberg, Kristo, and a 1st for Benn. That's a damn good deal honestly.

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01-25-2013, 03:54 PM
  #36
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I think we can get Subban if we're willing to give up some of our big winger prospects, and I think it would be worth it to do so. Probably will have to give up at least one solid roster player whose name isn't Benn, Eriksson, or Lehtonen, but outside of those three I'd be fairly open. I think this might be one of those rare opportunities for a team to acquire a potential #1D, which doesn't happen very often. If we package some big wingers together I think it's doable, and I'm sure we can happily throw in a roster D-man as a plug if they need that.

I voted for big trade, I think it's the only thing that will get us to where we need to be on defense within the next couple of years. We have some good prospects, and Oleksiak is especially looking great, but outside of that there's no promise of a bluechip defenseman on this team.

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01-25-2013, 04:33 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Picks, Fraser, Glennie (PLEASE), Cap space, and whatever it takes to get done. (Just none of our defensive depth)

Is it likely? Nope.
Absolutely not

No way MTL takes just forwards (Glennie? Really?) and picks for Subban. Markov, despite his resurgence, has a limited shelf-life at the age of 34-35 and doesn't have a contract beyond 2013-14. They will need a d-man to fill the void. It's either Goose+Offensive prospect+1st 2013 or Oleksiak+.

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01-25-2013, 04:38 PM
  #38
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If you're serious about acquiring Subban, your offer starts with Oleksiak.

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01-25-2013, 05:02 PM
  #39
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I choose options #2, #3, and maybe #4.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
If you're serious about acquiring Subban, your offer starts with Oleksiak.
Subban alone won't fix this team to the point where they're more than just playoff contenders. The young forwards need a season to grow as do the other young defensemen. If Olesiak is where you start count me out. This is a team that needs all of this season to mature and probably next year as well before they turn the corner on their rebuild. Giving away that piece of the rebuild is a no go from me. Any other prospect, let's talk but not him.

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01-25-2013, 05:46 PM
  #41
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Interesting responses.

It'd be great to land a marquee guy by trade but the reality is it'd be too expensive and it's better just letting the young guys take another year. We've waited long enough, so what's one more season, right?

I would love to see BigO called up though. I think he'd look great playing with Goligoski and that GoGo would benefit from playing with someone less defensively incompetent.

Goligoski-Oleksiak
Dillon-Larsen
Daley-Robidas/Rome

I think that looks considerably better than what we have currently, especially if ice time is balanced more evenly between the pairs.

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01-25-2013, 06:20 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
So the people on the Montreal board feel Subban is worth Oleksiak, Ritchie, A throw in, and a first. Riiiight.
seems fair to start negotiations... in my imaginary world of nhl general management, i counter with...

robidas as the throw in.
okay with ritchie (his value may never get higher than it is now).
replace oleksiak with another dman prospect (bystrom?).
reduce the 1st to a 3rd.
add bachman (cheap proven backup under team control).

gm joe and company have procured alot of prospect depth. not all of 'em will make it. use these assets to make prudent trades, e.g. when you have a chance to land a bona fide #1 dman.

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01-25-2013, 06:29 PM
  #43
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I agree ginblossoms. I'd give up Faska, Ritchie, Campbell, Bystrom, or R. Smith/Chiasson as a centerpiece but I'm not giving up on the big mobile defenseman. Anyone else is fair game.

I'd be okay with Goligoski as the centerpiece too but Montreal fans don't want another smallish puck mover. Perhaps you trade him and use those pieces to acquire Subban but that's not easy to do. They're looking for a guy who can hit as well, someone more like Dillion but with offensive fair. IE they're going to want to replace Subban and there really isn't anyone like that available.

If the right player comes up I'm willing to make a big trade otherwise let's ditch the ineffective older guys and play the kids knowing it's going to take a year or two for them to take a few steps forward and make this club a legit force in the West.

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01-25-2013, 06:35 PM
  #44
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who has the most dmen in their system that could give one up? NYR?

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01-25-2013, 06:41 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Subban alone won't fix this team to the point where they're more than just playoff contenders.
Why not?

If you were to get Subban you'd then have a #1C, a #1W, a #1D, and a #1G. Otherwise known as a Cup contender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
If Olesiak is where you start count me out. This is a team that needs all of this season to mature and probably next year as well before they turn the corner on their rebuild. Giving away that piece of the rebuild is a no go from me. Any other prospect, let's talk but not him.
If everything goes right for Oleksiak he could maybe have a similar impact on the game as Subban. Why not take the guy you already know is there if you have the opportunity?

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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
They're looking for a guy who can hit as well, someone more like Dillion but with offensive fair.
You're describing Oleksiak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
If the right player comes up I'm willing to make a big trade otherwise let's ditch the ineffective older guys and play the kids knowing it's going to take a year or two for them to take a few steps forward and make this club a legit force in the West.
And Subban isn't the right player? #1s don't grow on trees, as we well know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginblossoms View Post
seems fair to start negotiations... in my imaginary world of nhl general management, i counter with...

robidas as the throw in.
okay with ritchie (his value may never get higher than it is now).
replace oleksiak with another dman prospect (bystrom?).
reduce the 1st to a 3rd.
add bachman (cheap proven backup under team control).

gm joe and company have procured alot of prospect depth. not all of 'em will make it. use these assets to make prudent trades, e.g. when you have a chance to land a bona fide #1 dman.
Quantity instead of quality. That's not going to appeal to Montreal.

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01-25-2013, 06:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by beeker16 View Post
who has the most dmen in their system that could give one up? NYR?
I can't imagine MTL giving away another defender to the NYR. They already have egg all over their face for giving up McDonagh for Gomez.

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01-25-2013, 06:49 PM
  #47
ginblossoms
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just coming from some youtube-watching and man... subban would be such a huge addition. would certainly be willing to throw in oleksiak now, too. he's like steve ott as a defenseman but with elite offensive skills (skating/hands/shot) and a big body to throw around. infectious personality (would be great as a weekly BaD radio segment... and a little extra donovan lewis into the banter wouldn't hurt either).

... but i just may be dreaming at this point...

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01-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Why not?

If you were to get Subban you'd then have a #1C, a #1W, a #1D, and a #1G. Otherwise known as a Cup contender.
Not sure I buy that with Morrow, Robidas, and the rest of a young lineup. Maybe Subban is way, way better than I think but I don't buy that this team is one piece away just yet.

Quote:
If everything goes right for Oleksiak he could maybe have a similar impact on the game as Subban. Why not take the guy you already know is there if you have the opportunity?
Without a contract extension buying out FA years do I want Subban for four or Olesiak for six? It's not that clear cut when you take into consideration probably Ryder and perhaps Jagr aren't here next year and you've got young wingers delaying your timetable. There's also Roy and whether they get a deal worked out. There are huge questions surrounding this team right now and I'm still not convinced Subban alone solves those issues.

Quote:
You're describing Oleksiak.
And Subban isn't the right player? #1s don't grow on trees, as we well know.

Quantity instead of quality. That's not going to appeal to Montreal.
Like I told a Montreal poster they may not get that quality 1 for 1 trade they want. Besides Ritchie, Chiasson, or Smith is hardly some poor piece to help build around. It's just a forward where Dallas has a "surplus" versus defense where they have one player like Olesiak. Consider him the Jurkison Profar equivalent to me. You don't trade the future stud unless someone blows you away. Olesiak+ isn't a slam dunk deal in Dallas' favor when considering the issues that come with Subban.

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01-25-2013, 07:14 PM
  #49
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This team isn't suddenly going to be contending with a few tweaks. Although that Subban trade would be tempting depending on what is being sent. Beyond that just let the kids play and grow. Keep Oleksiak in the AHL, don't rush him, but give him a full season down there for the extra time to help make sure his offensive game develops.

The one change though would be to the minutes for the defense. Split them up closer to even, instead of giving one pairing the bulk of the minutes making them a "#1" pairing. Beyond that change the powerplay units to what's been said a million times before already.

Eriksson-Benn-Jagr
Goligoski-Whitney

Smith-Roy-Ryder
Daley/Dillon-Larsen

This team isn't going to be competing as any wins and points are just gravy, what really is the point of the season is to see how the young players develop over these 48 games to see what you've got.

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01-25-2013, 07:15 PM
  #50
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Profar is one of the top prospects in all of baseball. Oleksiak is a very nice prospect indeed, but not in that kind of category.

I think we're assuming that we'd sign him to a similar deal as Benn. Asking whether you want 5 years of Subban's prime or 6 years as Oleksiak develops isn't even really a question, it's a no-brainer.

Once you have elite players in the important positions everything else falls into place. Who even cares about Morrow and Robidas? Because we have bad vets on their last legs we shouldn't improve the team? This wouldn't be some quick fix. There's something to be said for bringing your core into alignment in terms of ages.

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