HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread - 7.0 - Great with computers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2013, 03:35 PM
  #301
Vinny Bombatz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
The true value of NHL defensemen.

Here is a list of defensemen that are guaranteed better than Subban in the present (no potential being considered) solely current talent.

I've concluded that 17 defensemen are undeniably better than Subban, while 28 are debatably as good. Personally I think he falls in top 25 in NHL…

He also would be staring or min top 2 on most of the teams in the league. Looking at this list will open a TON of eyes. IMO Anything under 4mil per is an insult to Subban and anything over 5.5per is complete overpayment.

Here is the list, by team.

100% guaranteed better than Subban

Ducks – 0
Boston – Chara
Buffalo – 0
Calgary – 0
Carolina – 0
Chicago – Keith, Seabrook
Colorado – 0
Columbus – J. Johnson
Dallas – 0
Detroit – Kronwall
Edmonton - 0
Florida – Cambell
Los Angeles – Doughty
Minnesota - Suter
Montreal – Markov
Nashville – Weber
New Jersey – 0
New York Islanders – 0
New York Rangers – Staal
Ottawa – Karlsson
Philly – 0
Phoenix – 0
Pittsburgh – Letang
San Jose – Boyle
St-Louis – Pietrangelo
Tampa – 0
Toronto – 0
Vancouver - Edler
Washington – 0
Winnipeg - Byfuglien


Here is a list of defensemen that are debatably better than Subban in the present (no potential being considered) solely current talent.

Debatably better than Subban

Ducks – Fowler
Buffalo – Myers
Chicago – Hjalmarsson
Colorado – Johnson
Dallas – Goligoski
Florida – Kulikov, Gudbranson
Nashville – Blum
New Jersey – Volchenkov, Larrson
New York Rangers – McDonagh, Del Zotto
Phoenix – Yandle, Larrson
San Jose – Burns, Vlasic, Stuart
St-Louis - Shattenkirk
Tampa – Hedman, Carle
Toronto – Phaneuf, Gunnarson
Vancouver – Bieska
Washington – Green, Alzner, Carlson
Winnipeg – Enstrom, Bogosian


After looking at this list, wow in San Jose scary good this year.


Last edited by Vinny Bombatz: 01-25-2013 at 03:53 PM.
Vinny Bombatz is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:35 PM
  #302
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If I'm trading Subban, I want at least a blue-chip D prospect. The team not having a potential #1 D-man prospect will hurt this team long term.
chances that a team trade a young promising D for another are slim to none, and it wouldnt make sense for any team.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #303
Roulin
Registered User
 
Roulin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
I take the 4 1st rounders every day of the week especially with Timmins as head scout. It's Subban not Jesus Christ.
4 low 1st round picks... would you trade Subban for Pacioretty, Tinordi, Leblanc and Fischer, spaced out over 4 years and starting at 18 years old with each prospect? I wouldn't.

Roulin is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #304
JackZap
Registered User
 
JackZap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,084
vCash: 500
Schenn sucks balls

JackZap is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #305
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,519
vCash: 500
I would trade him + Kristo and Leblanc for Couturier and L. Schenn.

Avim86 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #306
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
chances that a team trade a young promising D for another are slim to none, and it wouldnt make sense for any team.
Which is why it makes little sense to trade Subban.

If I can't get a blue-chip back and I can't get a HIGH quality forward who can carry the load, there is no reason to trade Subban. Deals like hurt teams for a long time.

Andy is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:38 PM
  #307
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
I want a good team in 3-4 years. Not in 10.
Yeah, 4 1st rounders gives you like maybe 2 decent players, somebody else who has a cup of coffee, and a bust. 10 years from now. Unless you have it written in blood that one of those picks is going to be top-5, there's no way you consider taking that for a player like Subban.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:38 PM
  #308
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny Bombatz View Post
Here is a list of defensemen that are guaranteed better than Subban in the present (no potential being considered) solely current talent.

I've concluded that 17 defensemen are undeniably better than Subban, while 28 are debatably as good. Personally I think he falls in top 25 in NHL

He also would be staring or min top 2 on most of the teams in the league. Looking at this list will open a TON of eyes. IMO Anything under 4mil per is an insult to Subban and anything over 5.5per is complete overpayment.

Here is the list, by team.

100% guaranteed better than Subban

Ducks 0
Boston Chara
Buffalo 0
Calgary 0
Carolina 0
Chicago Keith, Seabrook
Colorado 0
Columbus J. Johnson
Dallas 0
Detroit Kronwall
Edmonton - 0
Florida Cambell
Los Angeles Doughty
Minnesota - Suter
Montreal Markov
Nashville Weber
New Jersey 0
New York Islanders 0
New York Rangers Staal
Ottawa Karlsson
Philly 0
Phoenix 0
Pittsburgh Letang
San Jose Boyle
St-Louis Pietrangelo
Tampa 0
Toronto 0
Vancouver - Edler
Washington 0
Winnipeg - Byfuglien


Here is a list of defensemen that are debatably better than Subban in the present (no potential being considered) solely current talent.

Debatably better than Subban

Ducks Fowler
Buffalo Myers
Chicago Hjalmarsson
Colorado Johnson
Dallas Goligoski
Florida Kulikov, Gudbranson
Nashville Blum
New Jersey Volchenkov, Larrson
New York Rangers McDonagh, Del Zotto
Phoenix Yandle, Larrson
San Jose Burns, Vlasic, Stuart
St-Louis - Shattenkirk
Tampa Hedman, Carle
Toronto Phaneuf, Gunnarson
Vancouver Bieska
Washington Green, Alzner, Carlson
Winnipeg Enstrom, Bogosian


After looking at this list, wow in San Jose scary good this year.
hoping it's only your opinion and his differ...

making 4 Mil ayear is an insult now...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:38 PM
  #309
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
I love how most people compare Subban to Gorges in terms of salary (or in fact to any UFA deal). He is RFA it's not about what you are worth it's about what you can leverage , I predict he will get max 4 years at 4-4.5M a year.
well, I was originally of the mindset of Subban needing to take less than he thinks he's worth IF he thinks he's worth more than 4.5, but 4 years would take him up to UFA, wouldn't it? I think it's either 2 years, 5years or 6 years that could be in play, although I suspect MB is going with two years still, hopefully increasing the price.

habtastic is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:39 PM
  #310
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
I would trade him + Kristo and Leblanc for Couturier and L. Schenn.
I hope you are talking about Leif Schenn. The long lost relative that plays in Norway, who doesn't suck balls like Luke, and who's rights belong to the Flyers?


Bring on Leif!

Dr Gonzo is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #311
Vinny Bombatz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If I'm trading Subban, I want at least a blue-chip D prospect. The team not having a potential #1 D-man prospect will hurt this team long term.
Right-handed shot to boot!

Most of our 'future / current D's' are lefy handed. Not a thing many people give thought, but we are very weak on the RD position.

Here are our natural LD

Markov
Emelin
Georges
Kaberle
Bouillon
Tinordi
Beaulieu
St-Denis


Here are our natural RD

Subban
Diaz
Weber

We can't lose him.

Vinny Bombatz is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #312
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
guess you havent followed the thread much lately.
Kinda tough to do so when there's 1000 posts in a day on the matter.

Kriss E is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:41 PM
  #313
SeriousHabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,666
vCash: 500
If its Columbus or NYI I take the picks easily.

SeriousHabs is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:41 PM
  #314
Vinny Bombatz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
hoping it's only your opinion and his differ...

making 4 Mil ayear is an insult now...
'Insult to Subban'

Vinny Bombatz is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:42 PM
  #315
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Which is why it makes little sense to trade Subban.

If I can't get a blue-chip back and I can't get a HIGH quality forward who can carry the load, there is no reason to trade Subban. Deals like hurt teams for a long time.
it's usally a sucession of deal that hurt the team (or not).

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:43 PM
  #316
Avim86
Registered User
 
Avim86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal , Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I hope you are talking about Leif Schenn. The long lost relative that plays in Norway, who doesn't suck balls like Luke, and who's rights belong to the Flyers?


Bring on Leif!
Luke Schenn isn't bad at all he would fit in nicely in our top 4.

Markov -Schenn
Diaz - Gorges
Kaberle - Emelin

Pacs-Desharnais-Cole
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Couturier
Prust-White-Armstrong
Moen

If we pick up a Solid D in UFA...we could go deep in playoffs.


Last edited by Avim86: 01-25-2013 at 03:49 PM.
Avim86 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:43 PM
  #317
habs_24x
Registered User
 
habs_24x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,381
vCash: 500
Couturier is REALLY overvalued here. Subban is much more valuable in my eyes. Why trade a first pairing D for a 2nd/3rd line center? makes no sense.

habs_24x is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:44 PM
  #318
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Kinda tough to do so when there's 1000 posts in a day on the matter.
get a job where there isnt much to do but post on HF while at work, like me!

noob!





ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:45 PM
  #319
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,437
vCash: 500
Subban & Palushaj for Couturier & Gotisbehere

OneSharpMarble is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:47 PM
  #320
Dr Gonzo
#1 Jan Bulis Fan
 
Dr Gonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bat Country
Posts: 4,409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avim86 View Post
Luke Schenn isn't bad at all he would fit in nicely in our top 4.
.
I see him as a terrible, lesser version of Gorges. I haven't seen him much with the Flyers since the trade though, so I guess he may have progressed.

I think he's a 3rd pairing d-man at best, that can eat up a some PK time.

Dr Gonzo is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:47 PM
  #321
HomaridII
Registered User
 
HomaridII's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,780
vCash: 500
Are they meeting today or not?

HomaridII is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:48 PM
  #322
Mario Lemieux fan 66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
4 low 1st round picks... would you trade Subban for Pacioretty, Tinordi, Leblanc and Fischer, spaced out over 4 years and starting at 18 years old with each prospect? I wouldn't.
I take that package before Subban. Emelin, Diaz, and healthy Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Thrower and Bennett give many option for Bergevin now and for the future. 4first round pick would make the team better than only Subban and no team will give that much for Subban. As a Habs fan the most i would offer for Subban would be Desharnais+ Beaulieu and a 2nd draft pick. There is a limit to what the other teams will be giving to obtain Subban.

Mario Lemieux fan 66 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:49 PM
  #323
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Outside of Couturier and Giroux, there's nothing else I would want from the Flyers. They won't trade Giroux and Courturier isn't enough. It would be a bad trade.
I would take Schenn before Couturier, more offensive upside IMHO.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:50 PM
  #324
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
Are they meeting today or not?
Yes, but there has been no news...this is good, I think...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 03:54 PM
  #325
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
If its Columbus or NYI I take the picks easily.
You realize that even if we get the worst team's pick, there's still a chance we pick 5th (considering they stick to the same draft rules).
And after drafting whoever, there's still no guarantee they become better, or even just as good, as PK.

Kriss E is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.