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#4: Pittsburgh Penguins VS Winnipeg Jets @ MTS Centre|Jan.25.2013|8:00PM EST

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01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
It's only 48 game season. If you see something good in 3rd and 4th line let them play, let them get even better, it's almost like, this works..OK screw it, let's find what doesn't work...
There will be plenty of time for that. Again, it's game 4 of 48. People are acting like it's game 7 of the SCF.

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01-25-2013, 03:37 PM
  #177
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If this is a trend one game for MAF one game for TV, it's not going to work. Hate this....

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01-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #178
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I personally think one of management's best decisions was to keep Despres with the big club so he could play an average of 9:57 TOI/G. I mean clearly that's helping him become a better defender than just sending him back down to the minors to log big minutes in a top pairing role. At the very least it allowed us to rid ourselves of that worthless defender Brian Strait who had to clear waivers, unlike Despres. Strait sucked so much he's been picked up by the Islanders, and has even been put with Mark Streit. You only do that with players that have no future in the league. Hell even Islander fans have been saying he's playing well, and you know how dubious their opinions are.

Oh and while were at it, another brilliant decision of management was to give Tangradi an average of 8:27 TOI/G so far. I mean what forward DOESN'T develop with tons of ice time like that? I know if I was developing a young player the first thing I would do would be to put him with players he doesn't have chemistry with, and then yank him off of that line the very instant he messes up. You don't want him not being held accountable for his mistakes now would you? Oh don't mind the fact that just about every other player up and down the lineup has made plenty of mistakes in every game. We aren't trying to develop those players into top-6ers.

One last thing. I think it's a brilliant idea to put a guy who only shoots every time he touches the puck and never passes with 2 of the top 10 goal scorers in the league from a season ago. Brilliant coaching decision. I'm sure it will work out.

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01-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #179
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There will be plenty of time for that. Again, it's game 4 of 48. People are acting like it's game 7 of the SCF.
The end of the season will be here before you know it. This is a needless change in team chemistry.

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01-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #180
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Jets fan comming in peace...
Good luck tonight guys looking forward to a hard grinding game tonight..
Dont get too ofended guys when the Boo birds come out tonight everytime Crosby touches the puck.. Its a Winnipeg Thing, everytime a star player is out there we try to rattle him...sometime it works...sometimes they score a hat trick..
Anyways...Crosby is incredibly popular out here, and we love the guy...just not when he's playing against us...

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01-25-2013, 03:46 PM
  #181
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Breaking News

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414444#YourCallTop

Yeah and some of us don't give two .....

Headlines like this keep some sheep happy though.

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01-25-2013, 03:47 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I personally think one of management's best decisions was to keep Despres with the big club so he could play an average of 9:57 TOI/G. I mean clearly that's helping him become a better defender than just sending him back down to the minors to log big minutes in a top pairing role. At the very least it allowed us to rid ourselves of that worthless defender Brian Strait who had to clear waivers, unlike Despres. Strait sucked so much he's been picked up by the Islanders, and has even been put with Mark Streit. You only do that with players that have no future in the league. Hell even Islander fans have been saying he's playing well, and you know how dubious their opinions are.

Oh and while were at it, another brilliant decision of management was to give Tangradi an average of 8:27 TOI/G so far. I mean what forward DOESN'T develop with tons of ice time like that? I know if I was developing a young player the first thing I would do would be to put him with players he doesn't have chemistry with, and then yank him off of that line the very instant he messes up. You don't want him not being held accountable for his mistakes now would you? Oh don't mind the fact that just about every other player up and down the lineup has made plenty of mistakes in every game. We aren't trying to develop those players into top-6ers.

One last thing. I think it's a brilliant idea to put a guy who only shoots every time he touches the puck and never passes with 2 of the top 10 goal scorers in the league from a season ago. Brilliant coaching decision. I'm sure it will work out.
let it all out.

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01-25-2013, 03:48 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Wolf357 View Post
Jets fan comming in peace...
Good luck tonight guys looking forward to a hard grinding game tonight..
Dont get too ofended guys when the Boo birds come out tonight everytime Crosby touches the puck.. Its a Winnipeg Thing, everytime a star player is out there we try to rattle him...sometime it works...sometimes they score a hat trick..
Anyways...Crosby is incredibly popular out here, and we love the guy...just not when he's playing against us...
That works with some players, others not. Jagr used to wet himself and cry in the corner when he was boo'd here. So though I never did it and thought singling him out as our fans did was stupid, well it worked. It got him off his game.

Ask Philly fans how Crosby responds to getting the business from their fans. We kind of like the boos and Crosby Sucks chants, because he usually piles on the goals in response. Though you all may be smarter than fans in Philly. No matter how many times they have been burned they keep coming back for more.

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01-25-2013, 03:50 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by gholas View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=414444#YourCallTop

Yeah and some of us don't give two .....

Headlines like this keep some sheep happy though.
I am not sure if some fluff piece whose message from Crosby is 'I heart Winnipeg, snow is cool' is breaking news.

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01-25-2013, 03:52 PM
  #185
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let it all out.
I can't wait to see Lovejoy have one of his signature turnovers that leads to a goal tonight. I hope it's the one that ends up being the game winner for Winnipeg.

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01-25-2013, 03:53 PM
  #186
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1. I couldn't agree more.

2. Anyone who wants to defend this as 'tough love', answer me this (and then I'll shut up about Bylsma): Name the talented young player (low 20's or younger) who you can look at and say 'Bylsma played a big role in developing that guy' or 'I trust Bylsma to develop this blue chip prospect'. There isn't one, not even a role player.

And, don't ******* give me Joe Vitale. He doesn't count, because his godliness can transcend Bylsma's ******* decision to leave him on a fourth line forever.

EDIT: What you see is what you get with Bylsma . . . a career fourth line curtain jerker who sees more value in Adams and Englland than Vitale and Despres and who, along with his stooges behind the bench, are collectively overmatched when it matters the most. Frankly, if you look at how the coaches did things during the country club years, that's pretty much it, except instead of Mario and Jagr, we've got Sid and Geno.

Name me one young player who, after leaving the Pens, went on to flourish elsewhere.

Actually, name me a single FORWARD who was already an established NHL'er that came here, then moved on to have success and everyone here said: "Man, we should have kept that guy..."

Fact: Shere's been drafting defensemen left and right, particularly in the first round, so I'm still waiting for someone to name that blue chipper who's growth has been stunted by the coaching staff.

Fact: Name ONE forward in the Pens system since the lockout - I'm giving you a span of 8 years to find a single name - that was lighting up the AHL, then came up to the big club and did nothing. The fact is, you won't find a single one.

I can't take this Tangradi thing anymore. I understand why it's happening mind you, because this blind homerism that creates the belief that anyone who puts on YOUR favorite team's uniform will automatically develop into a top tier NHL player is something I'm all too familiar with, but this has gone beyond any rationale.

Average skater
Average hands
And the biggest sin of all, a big body that doesn't actually seem to enjoy being physical

He knew this was his last stand, and he still barely did **** all at the AHL level. I for one can't wait until he's traded to Toronto, then sent to the Marlies, then never heard from again.


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01-25-2013, 03:53 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Here is a couple of things that I don't think a coach should change:

1) Our bottom 6 was lights out. Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy and Glass-Vitale-Adams WORKS. LEAVE IT ALONE. Do not touch it. It works and that's what we need for good depth. We were rolling 4 lines and killing it. We lost due to terrible turnovers by our stars.
Bingo. Don't screw with team chemistry just because you're dissatisfied with one player.

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2) Tangradi wasn't bad. Not bad enough to deserve a 3 game exit. This needed to be 10 games MINIMUM. What the hell do you think is going to happen when a player barely sees ice and you expect him to be a star with limited time. It's a joke.
Agreed. Tangradi still needs to learn how to assert himself and be meaner, but demoting him to the fourth line just seems like scapegoating.

Quote:
3) You have a hole on Sid's line and Geno's line. I think Geno's line is fine if you slot Kunitz in. You need one player for Sid's line and we are LOADED. Go with what ya got until that opens up.
They need a Scuderi-like defensive defenseman that can fill a top 4 role more than a top 6 winger. At worst, they can always bring up Beau Bennett.

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01-25-2013, 04:03 PM
  #188
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I am not sure if some fluff piece whose message from Crosby is 'I heart Winnipeg, snow is cool' is breaking news.
Here in Pittsburgh it's so warm compared to Winnipeg the fire departments are going to let the kids tamper with fire hydrants to get cool.

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01-25-2013, 04:03 PM
  #189
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Pesonen had 82 points 70 games in the AHL. And while called up had 0 points in 7 games

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01-25-2013, 04:05 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I personally think one of management's best decisions was to keep Despres with the big club so he could play an average of 9:57 TOI/G. I mean clearly that's helping him become a better defender than just sending him back down to the minors to log big minutes in a top pairing role. At the very least it allowed us to rid ourselves of that worthless defender Brian Strait who had to clear waivers, unlike Despres. Strait sucked so much he's been picked up by the Islanders, and has even been put with Mark Streit. You only do that with players that have no future in the league. Hell even Islander fans have been saying he's playing well, and you know how dubious their opinions are.
Well which of our top 4 do we steal minutes from to give to Despres? Our top 4 is playing really well right now and with two of our three games so far being either really close or with the Pens behind, I'm not surprised Despres hasn't racked up the minutes. It's no coincidence he got the most ice time in the NYR game.

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01-25-2013, 04:10 PM
  #191
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Is this Crosby's first game in Winnipeg?

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01-25-2013, 04:12 PM
  #192
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Is this Crosby's first game in Winnipeg?
I believe so. Malkin, Crosby and Kane were all out last time the two teams met there.

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01-25-2013, 04:13 PM
  #193
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Well which of our top 4 do we steal minutes from to give to Despres? Our top 4 is playing really well right now and with two of our three games so far being either really close or with the Pens behind, I'm not surprised Despres hasn't racked up the minutes. It's no coincidence he got the most ice time in the NYR game.
I don't think it's the best decision to be relying so heavily on the top-4. Especially in a shortened season like this where they are playing so much hockey in a short period of time.

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01-25-2013, 04:14 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I personally think one of management's best decisions was to keep Despres with the big club so he could play an average of 9:57 TOI/G. I mean clearly that's helping him become a better defender than just sending him back down to the minors to log big minutes in a top pairing role. At the very least it allowed us to rid ourselves of that worthless defender Brian Strait who had to clear waivers, unlike Despres. Strait sucked so much he's been picked up by the Islanders, and has even been put with Mark Streit. You only do that with players that have no future in the league. Hell even Islander fans have been saying he's playing well, and you know how dubious their opinions are.
Playing on the third pairing for a year didn't seem to hurt Letang in 2007-2008...

I actually see a lot of similarities between Despres and Letang. Not playing a ton, making some bad decisions, but generally showing some promise. But really it's not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

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01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
  #195
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Don't understand how Tangradi comes off as practically blameless for his lack of good play. Eventually the onus is on the player to actually do something tangible. Tangridi played the first 3 games with Evgeni Malkin and James Neal and didn't do jack. Think about that, he played with the best player in the game and one of the best scorers in the game and couldn't elevate his play. Most players of his caliber will never get that much of a chance. Tangradi has also done next to nothing in his previous time with the club. Yeah, he hasn't played much but guess what, sometimes the player has to make the staff take notice and kill it on a shift, whether it's playing physical, making a smart play, etc.

People have to realize, in the improved AHL this year, Tangradi was having a pretty poor year, going super cold for the last 20 or so games he played. Maybe, just maybe, he's not a good NHL player. I hope he makes the most of out of his foray on the 4th line and establishes himself in the league and improves, but that's on Tangradi to do, not DB's fault for Tangradi maybe not being good enough to play regularly in the NHL.

As for Despres, being scratched is no big deal. You gotta get the other d-men in some games before they go completely cold, which means one of Despres or Engelland sitting. Not a big deal at all.

Happy to see Vokoun get the start. This is probably the first time in MAF's career that he is going to face some adversity in battling for his job and I defintely see this as a statement, DB could of easily played MAF today and gone with "2 games for MAF for every 1 for Vokoun" and made it clear that MAF was the unquestioned guy, but he immediately went back to Vokoun. Definitely think there's a message there. Don't buy the "Vokoun vs. Ottawa" jive that DB was spinning today.


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01-25-2013, 04:29 PM
  #196
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Yeah I'm fine getting the other guys some games on D, but Lovejoy should be No. 8 not Bortuzzo. If Bort gets a game in the next few and Despres gets back in, I won't complain.

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01-25-2013, 04:34 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
I personally think one of management's best decisions was to keep Despres with the big club so he could play an average of 9:57 TOI/G. I mean clearly that's helping him become a better defender than just sending him back down to the minors to log big minutes in a top pairing role. At the very least it allowed us to rid ourselves of that worthless defender Brian Strait who had to clear waivers, unlike Despres. Strait sucked so much he's been picked up by the Islanders, and has even been put with Mark Streit. You only do that with players that have no future in the league. Hell even Islander fans have been saying he's playing well, and you know how dubious their opinions are.

Oh and while were at it, another brilliant decision of management was to give Tangradi an average of 8:27 TOI/G so far. I mean what forward DOESN'T develop with tons of ice time like that? I know if I was developing a young player the first thing I would do would be to put him with players he doesn't have chemistry with, and then yank him off of that line the very instant he messes up. You don't want him not being held accountable for his mistakes now would you? Oh don't mind the fact that just about every other player up and down the lineup has made plenty of mistakes in every game. We aren't trying to develop those players into top-6ers.

One last thing. I think it's a brilliant idea to put a guy who only shoots every time he touches the puck and never passes with 2 of the top 10 goal scorers in the league from a season ago. Brilliant coaching decision. I'm sure it will work out.
TK has 3 SOG this year. Adams has more shots. Brilliant job of generalizing though and even implying that a SOG is a bad thing.....ug. TK has the best chance to succeed over any current roster player in that open top 6 spot. I've said this time and time again. He will out produce any non top 6 Pens player in that spot (given a large enough sample). He may not produce to your liking, but there is no one currently on the roster that will net more points / ice time than him in that role. Pens are playing their highest card with TK in the top 6.

What if Depres and Tangradi just aren't good players? They certainly didn't light the AHL on fire this year. It's funny how all the watch the game guys blame it on chemistry or something else you can't quantify when players don't produce - who've never really produced historically before. The skills have to add up to a result to be valuable. Tangradi's just don't add up to anything besides a young Mike Rupp. Why is that the fault of the front office?

Depres might be more than he's shown, but needs to really work on his D game. He's still young and has time to improve. I doubt he will improve much, but he probably has 2-3 years until it's time to cut ties with him if he stagnates. An offensive D man who's a liability isn't much use if he's not producing offense. He's got to fix one of those aspects first before making his way back onto the roster. I hope he does and defensive consistency is what he needs to be working on back in the AHL.

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01-25-2013, 04:38 PM
  #198
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Whatever I guess...

I would have benches engo, he was by far the worst player on the ice last game. And as far as tangradi? Its time for shero to move him. Bylsma clearly doesn't like the kid.

Package him for someone to play with sid.

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01-25-2013, 04:42 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
TK has 3 SOG this year. Adams has more shots. Brilliant job of generalizing though and even implying that a SOG is a bad thing.....ug. TK has the best chance to succeed over any current roster player in that open top 6 spot. I've said this time and time again. He will out produce any non top 6 Pens player in that spot (given a large enough sample). He may not produce to your liking, but there is no one currently on the roster that will net more points / ice time than him in that role.

What if Depres and Tangradi just aren't good players? They certainly didn't light the AHL on fire this year. It's funny how all the watch the game guys blame it on chemistry or something else you can't quantify when players don't produce - who've never really produced historically before. The skills have to add up to a result to be valuable. Tangradi's just don't add up to anything besides a young Mike Rupp. Why is that the fault of the front office?

Depres might be more than he's shown, but needs to really work on his D game. He's still young and has time to improve. I doubt he will improve much, but he probably has 2-3 years until it's time to cut ties with him if he stagnates. An offensive D man who's a liability isn't much use if he's not producing offense. He's got to fix one of those aspects first before making his way back onto the roster. I hope he does and defensive consistency is what he needs to be working on back in the AHL.
First off I'm not sure why you are grouping Tangradi and Despres together since they are entirely different players, age, position, and pedigree. Secondly, the last paragraph is laughable. You have basically written off a prospect that has looked very promising in the few NHL games he has gotten because of what? I would love to hear what evidence (stats driven or not) that you have to support this claim. Your labeling of Despres as "an offensive dman" shows you don't know a damn thing about him or the player he is projected to become. Carry on stats man.

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01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
TK has 3 SOG this year. Adams has more shots. Brilliant job of generalizing though and even implying that a SOG is a bad thing.....ug. TK has the best chance to succeed over any current roster player in that open top 6 spot. I've said this time and time again. He will out produce any non top 6 Pens player in that spot (given a large enough sample). He may not produce to your liking, but there is no one currently on the roster that will net more points / ice time than him in that role. Pens are playing their highest card with TK in the top 6.

What if Depres and Tangradi just aren't good players? They certainly didn't light the AHL on fire this year. It's funny how all the watch the game guys blame it on chemistry or something else you can't quantify when players don't produce - who've never really produced historically before. The skills have to add up to a result to be valuable. Tangradi's just don't add up to anything besides a young Mike Rupp. Why is that the fault of the front office?

Depres might be more than he's shown, but needs to really work on his D game. He's still young and has time to improve. I doubt he will improve much, but he probably has 2-3 years until it's time to cut ties with him if he stagnates. An offensive D man who's a liability isn't much use if he's not producing offense. He's got to fix one of those aspects first before making his way back onto the roster. I hope he does and defensive consistency is what he needs to be working on back in the AHL.
I pretty much disagree with everything you are saying and good job not even understanding my Despres argument. Oh and stating that TK shoots the puck every chance he gets isn't generalizing, its a fact based on his entire career.

If you want another voice that is coming from my same point of view go read what jiggy is saying around here.

I literally can't argue this topic anymore. The people on the other side believe what they believe no matter how wrong they are and how much logical thinking or facts are presented, so whatever.


Last edited by MrBurgundy: 01-25-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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