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Old
01-25-2013, 05:27 PM
  #426
Bourne Endeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Lets

No

Overreact


Were the Habs trade for Couturier+Overpayment, and can swing a deal to close the hole on our D... Well..

I'd be happy. Apparently Couturier is very good defensively, he could replace Plek as our 2nd Centre relatively soon.
Not an overreaction, just an analysis were that scenario to take place. While Courturier has a high ceiling, he is not among Montreal's needs nor is he Subban. Inept management has cost us how many good players and prospects? Look how poorly Koivu was treated despite the supposed "class" of this organization. And what is left to show for it? A bought out albatross and our former prospect being among the best young defensemen in the league.

This is all a moot point because there is no guarantee Couturier is even the asset acquired. Montreal has anything but an impressive resume when it comes to trades. Apparently, Bryan Scheen is falling out of favor. He and Luke could be who is shipped out for all we know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
*2 hours later*

BREAKING NEWS: Subbie-doo, traded to the flyers for Couturier, and a 2nd round draft pick.

Bergervin says the habs depth at D in the prospect pool allowed him to make this deal for a big talented young Center, and is all smiles. Couturier is praised and regarded as the next great one and saviour in Montreal by the media.
Along with the slew of Subban is overrated, classless et cetera

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01-25-2013, 05:27 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Except Dustin Byfuglien vs the rest of the Jets

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:28 PM
  #428
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In agreement with Ozy and WTK, and the others who decry a possible trade.

Smells like Chelios for washed up Denis Savard. (Yes, Denis was on a Cup team, but that was Roy's Cup. And Chelios, multiple Norris winner, would have co-anchored that Cup team.)

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01-25-2013, 05:28 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
No player is bigger than the team.
Neither is the the GM

I hope the weekend brings common sense to BOTH sides

If this ends up in a trade, I think neither side should escape criticism

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01-25-2013, 05:28 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
And if Bergevin would acquire 2 or 3 excellent young assets in return ?
Woop-de-****.

Chances any of them are a top defenseman in the NHL in their early 20s.. let alone if ever? Very slim.

All your grass is greener folks are so delusional.

What the **** is the point trading for Couturier? He's no better than Eller. He is a redundant piece in the scale of the whole team. Our top 4 remains Markov-Emelin, Gorges-Diaz. That is NO WHERE NEAR GOOD ENOUGH.

I love Ellis, Beaulieu and Tinordi. But at this point, we can be so lucky if any of them become as good as Subban in ONE facet of the game. Let alone the multiple facets he already excels at.

It's stupid.
You won't get fair value.
You create a big hole.

Mediocrity and sticking to dinosaur philosophies that make no sense are the two hallmarks of the Canadiens franchise now. You can keep pretending to yourself that it's okay.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Neither is the the GM

I hope the weekend brings common sense to BOTH sides

If this ends up in a trade, I think neither side should escape criticism
PK would as he would be gone...

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01-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I don't know if I should take you seriously?... We're trading a young prospect with a potential 1D ceiling + to a team in our conference (extra cost) + a unique player that gives a team extreme visibility with established national sponsorship contracts (extra cost), straight up for a young player that I like alot but that the hockey world agrees has a lower potential ceiling... And you're gloating about it?
Well, what else can we do but.. laugh.. and cry... and.. hope for the best?

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01-25-2013, 05:29 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You look at hockey as a game. As a sport to watch either live or on TV for entertainment.

Molson and Bergevin look at hockey as a business that must be managed with regard to revenue and expenses (and there is that silly thing called a salary cap).

If you do not have a business principle or philosophy as a manager, you will quickly fail as you will be a reactive manager instead of a proactive manager.

Enjoy the game. Bergevin knows more about the business side than any of us. Unfortunately for a lot of fans, he does not agree with the fans beliefs of spending other people's money.
Well said
It's funny, some people look at Detroit and applaud them for the structure that they've implemented and hope for the same.
Well, for years it was essentially "no one gets paid more than Lidstrom"
Now Bergevin wants to install his own version of that and people run for the exits.
Interesting to say the least

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01-25-2013, 05:34 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
PK would as he would be gone...
I think the Habs will let Subban sit out the entire year before they trade him

These Couturier rumors are just media driven rumors...

They wld be ccrazy to make that trade first of all

Again, I hope the weekend makes both sides realize what's around stake

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01-25-2013, 05:34 PM
  #435
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The other point worth making is that Bergevin should have made the Subban signing his top priority, last summer, over signing the Prusts and other players (as much as I like Prust), and should have taken a practical, rather than ideological approach (there must be some integer number between 2 and 6, no?). Even if it meant buying out Kaberle as well.

If the player sours on the team, whose fault is it mainly, really?

Chelios-for-Savard-type debacle.

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01-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Woop-de-****.

Chances any of them are a top defenseman in the NHL in their early 20s.. let alone if ever? Very slim.

All your grass is greener folks are so delusional.

What the **** is the point trading for Couturier? He's no better than Eller. He is a redundant piece in the scale of the whole team. Our top 4 remains Markov-Emelin, Gorges-Diaz. That is NO WHERE NEAR GOOD ENOUGH.

I love Ellis, Beaulieu and Tinordi. But at this point, we can be so lucky if any of them become as good as Subban in ONE facet of the game. Let alone the multiple facets he already excels at.

It's stupid.
You won't get fair value.
You create a big hole.

Mediocrity and sticking to dinosaur philosophies that make no sense are the two hallmarks of the Canadiens franchise now. You can keep pretending to yourself that it's okay.
And you think they gone change the philosophy because people are complaining? Unless it comes to a point where 5000 tickets a game becomes unsold, it will never happen, 200-300 did manifest one when they didn't resign Kovalev.... the world kept turning end the world did not end in december 2012.... Will i be happy or do i want PK trade? NO, but if it happens there will be reason and not just because of the Habs philosophy.... than again why don't PK accept to follow this philosophy if he likes the team so much from his youth....

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01-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Well said
It's funny, some people look at Detroit and applaud them for the structure that they've implemented and hope for the same.
Well, for years it was essentially "no one gets paid more than Lidstrom"
Now Bergevin wants to install his own version of that and people run for the exits.
Interesting to say the least
I'm sorry. Does not compute.

Detroit had a HOF player under contract. They made other players accountable to this "rule" based on a player who is a top 5 or 10 all time defenseman in the NHL.

Bergevin's "rule", which actually goes back to a regime that has been completely overhauled, wants to hold Subban to rules that applied when Max had 1/2 of a good season and a broken neck, to Price when he was the league's most polarizing backup goalie, or to gorges coming off a shredded knee.

What does one have to do with the other?

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01-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #438
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We would be set in one area only to create a gaping hole in another. I agree with DA's previous assertion about building contenders: "get great players, put them together for a long time, and roll the dice."

We'd most likely be strong down the middle for the foreseeable future with Couturier. However, while PK is not currently among the elite #1 dmen in the league, he's the closest thing to a guarantee that we'll continue to have one if Markov either fails to keep up his recent performance, or the eventuality that he succumbs to the sands of time.

PK is also a lot closer to fulfilling his potential, and IMO, more likely to do so than Couturier is to his.

So, PK for Couts straight up fails for me on this basis, alone.

I agree with Ozy, though: I've waited a long...long time to see Markov and PK tearing **** up together, and I will see it, damnit.

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01-25-2013, 05:35 PM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
No player is bigger than the team.
""Subban thinks he's bigger than the team."

This one comes from the people who believe this has anything to do with the team. It doesn't. This negotiation is between the business that is the Montreal Canadiens, and P.K. Subban. This is the business part of hockey. At no point has Subban said anything in his entire career that would insinuate that he believes he's bigger than the team. Brian Gionta said at the outset of training camp that players understood the business of the game and would work through whatever the situation was. He also mentioned that people who don't get that don't belong in the NHL. There's a separation between what goes on in Bergevin's office and what happens in the dressing room. Anyone who repeats the above phrase is full of a special kind of ********."

Quoted from here.

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01-25-2013, 05:36 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I think the Habs will let Subban sit out the entire year before they trade him

These Couturier rumors are just media driven rumors...

They wld be ccrazy to make that trade first of all

Again, I hope the weekend makes both sides realize what's around stake
i agree with you, if he ever gets trade, it will be this summer, not during the season...

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01-25-2013, 05:36 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
No player is bigger than the team.
No GM is bigger than the team. Tired of the incompetence.

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Lets

No

Overreact


Were the Habs trade for Couturier+Overpayment, and can swing a deal to close the hole on our D... Well..

I'd be happy. Apparently Couturier is very good defensively, he could replace Plek as our 2nd Centre relatively soon.
I like this idea. A lot.

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01-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #443
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Couturier for Subban? Seriously? No thanks.

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01-25-2013, 05:38 PM
  #444
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It depends on what the Flyers throw in?

How about Wayne Simmonds?

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:39 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by WG View Post
I'm sorry. Does not compute.

Detroit had a HOF player under contract. They made other players accountable to this "rule" based on a player who is a top 5 or 10 all time defenseman in the NHL.

Bergevin's "rule", which actually goes back to a regime that has been completely overhauled, wants to hold Subban to rules that applied when Max had 1/2 of a good season and a broken neck, to Price when he was the league's most polarizing backup goalie, or to gorges coming off a shredded knee.

What does one have to do with the other?
It's not the quality of the player, but the years of experience, what is the worth of a RFA system if the player as all the control?

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01-25-2013, 05:39 PM
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Couturier for Subban? Seriously? No thanks.
I really hope we can trade Subban for a defenseman that is an elite skater, carries the puck out of his own zone and into the attacking zone, has a physical presence, can agitate the opposition, has good vision and a bomb shot from the point who is also solid defensively.

Oh wait. The only players that are like that are rare and their teams are too intelligent to trade them? What a NOVEL concept.

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01-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Couturier for Subban? Seriously? No thanks.
I'm with you.. Over on the Flyers board on the other hand..

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01-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #448
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@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Told Subban will take weekend to think things over... My sense is Habs won't go past three years at most... We shall see

So fourth liners can get 4 year deals but your top player can't get over 3? Makes sense....
Right now, Prust is a very valuable member of the Canadiens.

He has stood up for his teammates twice now.

Those days of 4th liners being leftover forwards exited with Gauthier and Martin.

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01-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
No GM is bigger than the team. Tired of the incompetence.
No fans are more knowledgable than NHL executives, tired of whining fans

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01-25-2013, 05:43 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Those days of 4th liners being leftover forwards exited with Gauthier and Martin.
Come on man, our 4th lines weren't that bad, they'd just be depleted by injuries.

We'd have Moen on the 2nd line and all that, when that happens the 4th line will be made of AHL callups and Yannick Weber.

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