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Is Eric Tangradi officially a bust?

View Poll Results: Is Eric Tangradi a bust?
Yes 102 50.00%
No 15 7.35%
Too Early To Say 87 42.65%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:57 PM
  #26
Jaded-Fan
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I do not know.

Neither do you.

The Pens do not know either.

Which is why you need to play him for at least 2/3 of this season and really see. Really play him.

You all know my feelings about the regular season being almost meaningless. I have said it often enough. We could just for the hell of it put Crosby in goal, Malkin on defense and make Fleury and Tanner Glass Sutter's wings for a month and still make the playoffs.

So what the hell, take a chance and see. Meaning not moving him in and out of the lineup, up and down the lines.

Let's see what we have.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #27
Jules Winnfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
This thread is such BS. ET has been treated horribly by this org and now that he has a total of 3 games playing in the top 6 we're gonna call him a bust.
LOL. You make a good point. Wonder what this board would've said about Datsyuk if he were coming up in the Pens org.

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01-25-2013, 06:04 PM
  #28
IcedCapp
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Let's just assume that Tangradi does nothing spectacular with the Pens from here on out. He was drafted in round 2, #42 overall.

What's the normal expected output/performance for someone in that draft position?

When you have that answer, you can figure out if he's a bust to you or not.

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01-25-2013, 06:11 PM
  #29
Jacques G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Let's just assume that Tangradi does nothing spectacular with the Pens from here on out. He was drafted in round 2, #42 overall.

What's the normal expected output/performance for someone in that draft position?

When you have that answer, you can figure out if he's a bust to you or not.
The Red Wings beg to differ.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:13 PM
  #30
Jacques G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
LOL. You make a good point. Wonder what this board would've said about Datsyuk if he were coming up in the Pens org.
This thread wouldn't exist if ET had 35 points in his first NHL season.

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01-25-2013, 06:13 PM
  #31
EdwardBlake
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A complete bust? No. Absolutely not.

Power forwards do not hit their true game usually until their mid-20's... That being said, will he ever be the power forward that this team truly needs? That is a flat out 100% wait and see.

But I think calling him a complete bust is a bit much. We got him as a toss in on a Whitney for Kunitz lateral trade at the time. The winger market was costly that season with so many teams looking to add scoring depth at forward that were in both conferences. That happens every year, but if I remember correctly (could be wrong), but that year the deadline market was even more intense for a top 6 winger due to contenders needs...

Anyways... He was a add on for that trade. We never went out to get him as a all encompassing solution for a winger need, Kunitz was brought in on that trade for that along with Guerin. We got Tangradi hoping someday he could round out into a top 6 winger. Even if he doesn't... And ends up just being a solid big body bottom 6'er I do not think you can call him a bust.

Guys of his frame/size don't grow on trees, so even if he only turns into a 10-15g/25-30pt winger. I do not believe you can call him a bust. Maybe not a top 6 winger, but far from a bust.

But then again, I like to try and look at things rationally and logically, take situations and player apart on a strick pro/con basis... And most people on this board are ether calling a player the second coming or two seconds away from jumping off of a sky scraper...

But I do not think Tangradi, is or will be a bust. He just may not end up being a top 6 forward. Not all 2nd rounders turn out to be top 6 or top pair or starting goalies... Hell some 1st rounders never even make the NHL for a regular role.

Look at Filatov, often praised to be the winger we were destined to need and have on this team... He could not even stick with a young and (all be it rapid) rebuilding Ottawa.

So if Tangradi ends up being that bottom 6 winger I stated above, and thats his ceiling. Good for him, and good for us, size like his with the skating he has developed are not the easiest things to find. In the end, I think Whitney for Kunitz + Tangradi, even if he never becomes a top 6 forward was a complete 100% win for us. And that he isnt a bust due to that.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:15 PM
  #32
Lamar Latrell
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Too early. Jesus, this poll is jumping the gun. Probably doesn't have much beyond this season to prove his worth w/ the Pens, but it's just 3 games. Hey, remember when James Neal was a bust w/ the Pens and Shero got hosed by giving up Goligoski?

Power forwards (which Tangradi projects to) typically take longer to develop. There are a ton of examples of PF's developing later than normal not developing until their 24/25 yo season:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=369
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=5177
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=55126
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=62727
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=45143
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=3036
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=1588

Personally, I've not been impressed w/ Tangradi, but he barely played over half a season and it's been in spurts w/ inconsistent ice time. Way too early to call.

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01-25-2013, 06:15 PM
  #33
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He needs to be physical.


/thread

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01-25-2013, 06:19 PM
  #34
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Like I said in another thread...

Chris Conner plays bigger.

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01-25-2013, 06:20 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
This thread is such BS. ET has been treated horribly by this org and now that he has a total of 3 games playing in the top 6 we're gonna call him a bust.
Really... did he force the Pens hands to play him in the NHL even at the AHL level? Other than 5-8 games of looking like a legit 3rd liner every once in a blue moon he has done NOTHING to show that he should even be called up or get a chance.

He's not a Malone or Ladd. He's not even a Cooke or Rupp. So I'm not even sure if he can be a 3rd liner. He's a puck chaser, not a puck getter, and a statue in front of the net. Every once in a while he makes a nice pass and grinds along the boards. He brings very little besides that... even at the AHL level.

Someone needs to sit this kid down and place a chip on his shoulder because right now he's playing like a....


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01-25-2013, 06:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
The Pens need to stop tearing players down and rebuilding them back up, especially forwards.

Build upon their talents don't take them away.
THIS, THIS, and THIS.

I shudder to think what would've happened if the current regime, rather than the previous regime, had been left to handle the development of Staal and Letang.

Would Staal have gotten a cup of coffee and then more games beyond?

What would've happened with Letang, because Therrien put up with a **** load of on ice growing pains and kept throwing him out there.

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01-25-2013, 06:22 PM
  #37
KIRK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
LOL. You make a good point. Wonder what this board would've said about Datsyuk if he were coming up in the Pens org.
We wouldn't have said anything, because Bylsma never would have carved out a spot for a player like that in his bottom six in the beginning or pushed him ahead of fossilized vets like Detroit did.

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01-25-2013, 06:27 PM
  #38
Vega
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
THIS, THIS, and THIS.

I shudder to think what would've happened if the current regime, rather than the previous regime, had been left to handle the development of Staal and Letang.

Would Staal have gotten a cup of coffee and then more games beyond?

What would've happened with Letang, because Therrien put up with a **** load of on ice growing pains and kept throwing him out there.
Good post. Say what you will about Therrien but he was a million times better at handling younger players than Bylsma.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:28 PM
  #39
Snooki Stackhouse
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He plays like a little *****. Power forward my ass. I can take that his offensive game is nonexistent. But to lose every board battle while sporting the physique of an NHL linebacker? Hopefully playing like a little princess will go away with age and experience.

I voted yes, but I have no idea and hope that's not the case. I just wish he brought the tiniest amount of grit.

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01-25-2013, 06:32 PM
  #40
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Good post. Say what you will about Therrien but he was a million times better at handling younger players than Bylsma.
As I said in another thread:

Lower end . . . Talbot under Therrien versus Vitale under Bylsma

High end . . . Letang gets cup of coffee, Morrow doesn't after great camp (despite Oprik being out).

Honestly, I think the mistake made with Tangradi happened at camp in 2009. Geno was going into the season with Feds and Dupuis as his wingers. Tangradi came into camp and killed it with Sid and Kunitz. Back then, Bylsma hadn't had a chance to beat Tangradi's talent and game out of him. How hard would it have been to slide Guerin down with Geno and Feds? Or, how hard would it have been to give Tangradi a shot with Geno and Feds? Back then, he was just young enough and not so destroyed as a player that either could have worked.

A guy like Therrien would've found a spot for Tangradi after the 2009 camp.

Then again, for all his faults and odd choices sometimes for pets, the guy appreciated the need for having talented players and the need for giving young players a chance to grow in the NHL.

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01-25-2013, 06:33 PM
  #41
IcedCapp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
The Red Wings beg to differ.
Ok.

The Red Wings didn't have a 2nd round pick in 2007 (Tangradi's draft year). Here are there draft picks from that year:

1st - Brendan Smith (17 total games in the NHL)
2nd - N/A
3rd - Joakim Andersson
4th - N/A
5th - Randy Cameron
6th - Zack Torquato
7th - Bryan Rufenach

Which player did they get more out of than expected that year?

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01-25-2013, 06:41 PM
  #42
TheSniper26
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I think it's too early to definitively call him a bust. As others have said, power forwards often develop a little bit later and it will likely take more than 3 games in the top 6 to make a clear judgment on the kid. That said, he isn't holding up too well against the eye test right now.

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01-25-2013, 06:41 PM
  #43
Jacques G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Ok.

The Red Wings didn't have a 2nd round pick in 2007 (Tangradi's draft year). Here are there draft picks from that year:

1st - Brendan Smith (17 total games in the NHL)
2nd - N/A
3rd - Joakim Andersson
4th - N/A
5th - Randy Cameron
6th - Zack Torquato
7th - Bryan Rufenach

Which player did they get more out of than expected that year?
Didn't see where you were limiting your comment to a single draft year...

Starting in 98 with Datsyuk, look at their draft picks. A TON of the great players they developed were later picks.

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01-25-2013, 06:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I think it's too early to definitively call him a bust. As others have said, power forwards often develop a little bit later and it will likely take more than 3 games in the top 6 to make a clear judgment on the kid. That said, he isn't holding up too well against the eye test right now.
I think there's a lot more evidence at this point to support the proposition that Bylsma is a bust as a coach than the proposition that Tangradi is a bust as a player.

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01-25-2013, 06:47 PM
  #45
TheSniper26
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I think there's a lot more evidence at this point to support the proposition that Bylsma is a bust as a coach than the proposition that Tangradi is a bust as a player.
Well, going off topic for a second, I actually think Bylsma is a really good coach. I just don't know if he's good for a team with high end talent. I could see him being a good fit on a team like Nashville or maybe even New Jersey.

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01-25-2013, 06:51 PM
  #46
IcedCapp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
Didn't see where you were limiting your comment to a single draft year...

Starting in 98 with Datsyuk, look at their draft picks. A TON of the great players they developed were later picks.
you're using a ridiculously small sample size. I asked what the average expected performance for 2nd round picks was. Your response was "Red Wings."

I'll do the work for you, for 7 years, I guess.

2005 - Justin Abdelkader
2006 - Cory Emmerton
- Shawn Matthias
- Dick Axelsson
2007 - N/A
2008 - Peter Delmas
2009 - Landon Ferraro
- Tomas Tatar
2010 - Calle Jarnkrok
2011 - Tomas Jurco
- Ryan Sproul


Now, 2005 was just a date I picked, going to have dinner soon. If you want to go back further, feel free. I probably did a disservice to the sample to include 2010/2011 picks, because... well, it's the Red Wings, their picks aren't going to be playing within 3 years.

But my overall point remains: 2nd round picks aren't sure things. The Red Wings have developed late round picks into true Superstars players, but they have far more misses than hits.

I'm guessing if you did a full study on this (actually, someone probably has), you'll find that most 2nd round picks don't produce meaningfully at the NHL level.

edit: from your link - of their 2nd round picks that stayed in the organization (17), they played an average of 77.1 NHL games.

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01-25-2013, 06:58 PM
  #47
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Don't think he's technically a bust, because he was jut an extra in the Whitney/Kunitz deal. As a throw in, the fact that he's had 50 or so games in the NHL arguably means he hasn't been a bust. But I don't think he's going to make it with the Pens if that qualifies as a bust.

Scorin' Warren Young, Robby Brown, Troy Loney, or Terry Ruskowski would at least have a couple points in the first three games if they were playing with Malkin and Neal.

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01-25-2013, 06:58 PM
  #48
Sager
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques G View Post
Didn't see where you were limiting your comment to a single draft year...

Starting in 98 with Datsyuk, look at their draft picks. A TON of the great players they developed were later picks.
So Tangradi would've taken Johan Franzen's spot by now if he was a Red Wing, is that what you're saying?

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01-25-2013, 07:02 PM
  #49
Jacques G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
you're using a ridiculously small sample size. I asked what the average expected performance for 2nd round picks was. Your response was "Red Wings."

I'll do the work for you, for 7 years, I guess.

2005 - Justin Abdelkader
2006 - Cory Emmerton
- Shawn Matthias
- Dick Axelsson
2007 - N/A
2008 - Peter Delmas
2009 - Landon Ferraro
- Tomas Tatar
2010 - Calle Jarnkrok
2011 - Tomas Jurco
- Ryan Sproul


Now, 2005 was just a date I picked, going to have dinner soon. If you want to go back further, feel free. I probably did a disservice to the sample to include 2010/2011 picks, because... well, it's the Red Wings, their picks aren't going to be playing within 3 years.

But my overall point remains: 2nd round picks aren't sure things. The Red Wings have developed late round picks into true Superstars players, but they have far more misses than hits.

I'm guessing if you did a full study on this (actually, someone probably has), you'll find that most 2nd round picks don't produce meaningfully at the NHL level.

edit: from your link - of their 2nd round picks that stayed in the organization (17), they played an average of 77.1 NHL games.
So you're also limiting it to 2nd round picks, and nothing beyond that? Then yeah, I guess you win...

My point was that aside from early first-rounders (and even they can be a bust, though not as often) the round that a player is picked is a very poor yard-stick for how they will perform at the NHL level. I probably should have just stated that outright.

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01-25-2013, 07:03 PM
  #50
Jacques G
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So Tangradi would've taken Johan Franzen's spot by now if he was a Red Wing, is that what you're saying?
Haha, yes, exactly.

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