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Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

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01-25-2013, 06:39 PM
  #301
truck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I care about keeping guys who can help the Jets win.

I'm not looking at it from a developmental standpoint. To me, having Scheifele in the Jets lineup makes them better, however slight that effect may be.
I also think he helps the team, but I see development as the biggest issue here, but I have no idea what is better for his development within the context of this team.

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01-25-2013, 09:35 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
So those of you who want Scheifele sent back to play with the boys in Barrie - who do you feel is better than him on the farm to fill in?

My answer. NOBODY
Telegin had a more successful campaign in Barrie last season, and he has had the opportunity to play in St. John's this year. He's also had more experience playing the wing, is a year older than Mark and his skating is NHL ready. I'm surprised that nobody has suggested that he get called up.

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01-25-2013, 09:42 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Telegin had a more successful campaign in Barrie last season, and he has had the opportunity to play in St. John's this year. He's also had more experience playing the wing, is a year older than Mark and his skating is NHL ready. I'm surprised that nobody has suggested that he get called up.
He is out with concussion like syndrome

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01-25-2013, 09:44 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
Telegin had a more successful campaign in Barrie last season, and he has had the opportunity to play in St. John's this year. He's also had more experience playing the wing, is a year older than Mark and his skating is NHL ready. I'm surprised that nobody has suggested that he get called up.
Num - Pos - Name - GP - G - A - PTS - +/- - PIM
22 LW Ivan Telegin* - 34 - 3 - 7 - 10 - +1 - 8

Probably the reason. He is having trouble find a role in St. John's, currently 14th on St. John's in scoring, 11th among forwards. That is not encouraging signs. He needs more time.

And what IceCapsFanNL said

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01-25-2013, 09:49 PM
  #305
krazy kanuck
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Probably the reason. He is having trouble find a role in St. John's, currently 14th on St. John's in scoring, 11th among forwards. That is not encouraging signs. He needs more time.
That's fine, but if people are thinking that Mark would be outperforming Telegin in St. John's, I'm not sure what they base that on. Watched both play every game last season, and unless something changed over the summer, Ivan was more advanced than Mark's.

If Mark stays up this season, reasonable expectations are 3-4 G, 7-8 A, 10 - 12 points in 48 games. Expecting more than than is putting unreasonable expectations on the kid.

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01-25-2013, 09:50 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by IceCapsFanNL View Post
He is out with concussion like syndrome
Wasn't aware of that ... it's too bad. Hope he gets well soon.

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01-25-2013, 09:56 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
That's fine, but if people are thinking that Mark would be outperforming Telegin in St. John's, I'm not sure what they base that on. Watched both play every game last season, and unless something changed over the summer, Ivan was more advanced than Mark's.

If Mark stays up this season, reasonable expectations are 3-4 G, 7-8 A, 10 - 12 points in 48 games. Expecting more than than is putting unreasonable expectations on the kid.
Junior success /= NHL success. It's completely different game. Scheifele has better hockey sense and a better pro skill set, IMO, and will have a much easier time moving to the pro game. Telegin still has potential but he needs time. Things like hockey sense transfer much easier and with less dropoff. Remember that's the AHL level, a guy like Telegin will need to show he can be a scorer there before he can move on. If Scheifele only gets that, it's probably the wrong call to have him at the NHL level. But he looks fairly solid in the time he's been in WPG, we'll see.

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01-25-2013, 10:50 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Junior success /= NHL success. It's completely different game. Scheifele has better hockey sense and a better pro skill set, IMO, and will have a much easier time moving to the pro game. Telegin still has potential but he needs time. Things like hockey sense transfer much easier and with less dropoff. Remember that's the AHL level, a guy like Telegin will need to show he can be a scorer there before he can move on. If Scheifele only gets that, it's probably the wrong call to have him at the NHL level. But he looks fairly solid in the time he's been in WPG, we'll see.
Don't disagree. Long term potential is higher with Mark. I'm saying that Ivan's current skills - particularly skating and his ability to protect the puck while driving to the net, were more advanced than Mark's at the end of last season. He's a year older and stronger.

I think for some reason folks see a guy picked at #7 and figure why isn't he up at 19? Go back and look at the players in that draft...not many will be playing the full season in the NHL this year...and most that are were drafted ahead of Mark.

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01-25-2013, 11:04 PM
  #309
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Both Scheifele and Wellwood should be dropped, keep Wright and play Peluso.

Wellwood didn't look very good tonight. Scheifele isn't ready for the NHL just yet.

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01-25-2013, 11:11 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Both Scheifele and Wellwood should be dropped, keep Wright and play Peluso.

Wellwood didn't look very good tonight. Scheifele isn't ready for the NHL just yet.
Don't put in Peluso . Wellwood will come around as the season goes on.

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01-25-2013, 11:14 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Both Scheifele and Wellwood should be dropped, keep Wright and play Peluso.

Wellwood didn't look very good tonight. Scheifele isn't ready for the NHL just yet.
I honestly thought he looked fine this game

He had a few great takeaways and a beauty of a cross ice saucer to Ponikarovsky...

Also never ever EVER put in all 4 of Peluso, Wright, Thorburn and Slater at the same time... Last season we had too many 4th liners and that caused us huge problems...

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01-25-2013, 11:16 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Junior success /= NHL success. It's completely different game. Scheifele has better hockey sense and a better pro skill set, IMO, and will have a much easier time moving to the pro game. Telegin still has potential but he needs time. Things like hockey sense transfer much easier and with less dropoff. Remember that's the AHL level, a guy like Telegin will need to show he can be a scorer there before he can move on. If Scheifele only gets that, it's probably the wrong call to have him at the NHL level. But he looks fairly solid in the time he's been in WPG, we'll see.
Amen to that...

Bobby Smith
158 goals, 385 points in 187 games; chosen major junior player of the year in 1978 over Wayne Gretzky. He was no NHL superstar. See Doug Wickenheiser and Alexandre Daigle.

Stephane Lebeau was a QMJHL stallion and didnt do muhc in the NHL:

1984-85 Shawinigan QMJHL 66 41 38 79
1985-86 Shawinigan QMJHL 72 69 77 146
1986-87 Shawinigan QMJHL 65 77 90 167
1987-88 Shawinigan QMJHL 67 94 94 188

Then went to the AHL:
1988-89 Sherbrooke Canadiens AHL 78 70 64 134

Scheiffle is probably going to do as well as Burmistrov is doing right now next year when he gets a shot. I sure hope he takes Wellwood's spot in the lineup and doesn't get jerked around playing with Thorburn and Slater.

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01-25-2013, 11:18 PM
  #313
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Another player who benefited during that period from high soring juniors:

Patrice Lefebvre
1984-85 Shawinigan QMJHL 68 28 52 80
1985-86 Shawinigan QMJHL 69 38 98 136
1986-87 Shawinigan QMJHL 69 57 122 179
1987-88 Shawinigan QMJHL 70 64 136 200

Translated into:

1998-99 Washington NHL 3 0 0 0 2 -2

Then again he was 5'6"

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01-25-2013, 11:56 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Another player who benefited during that period from high soring juniors:

Patrice Lefebvre
1984-85 Shawinigan QMJHL 68 28 52 80
1985-86 Shawinigan QMJHL 69 38 98 136
1986-87 Shawinigan QMJHL 69 57 122 179
1987-88 Shawinigan QMJHL 70 64 136 200

Translated into:

1998-99 Washington NHL 3 0 0 0 2 -2

Then again he was 5'6"
Zach O'Brien is a current day example.

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01-25-2013, 11:58 PM
  #315
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I have no problems with scratching Scheifele tonight. Why burn a game on what would be a serious upgrade in the calibre of competition? Let him play Sunday against the Isle.

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01-26-2013, 12:29 AM
  #316
Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I also think he helps the team, but I see development as the biggest issue here, but I have no idea what is better for his development within the context of this team.
Fair enough. Just to be clear, I don't believe there's a 'right' or 'wrong' way to handle Scheifele at this point, and I too have no idea what would make more sense within the context of the team.

I believe he's proven himself worthy of a role with this team (a much greater role, at that), but I have faith that Jets management has a bigger picture idea for maximizing his potential.

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01-26-2013, 08:06 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
I have no problems with scratching Scheifele tonight. Why burn a game on what would be a serious upgrade in the calibre of competition? Let him play Sunday against the Isle.
I agree, lets give him in an opportunity where he can show what he's got.

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01-26-2013, 08:24 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Amen to that...

Bobby Smith
158 goals, 385 points in 187 games; chosen major junior player of the year in 1978 over Wayne Gretzky. He was no NHL superstar. See Doug Wickenheiser and Alexandre Daigle.
Bobby Smith and Doug Wickenheiser were very good NHLers.

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01-26-2013, 10:21 AM
  #319
krazy kanuck
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
Bobby Smith and Doug Wickenheiser were very good NHLers.
Indeed, and he also fails to mention that most of the best NHLers also had great success in junior. It's not often a player becomes a superstar in the NHL without having been successful in junior. My point wasn't that OHL success necessarily equals NHL success in the long term. There are many things, including age, maturity and physical strength at that point in time, that impact success. In the Gretzky case I think he was two years younger than Smith at the time.

My point is that as of last April, Telegin was older, faster, stronger, and had better puck protection skills than Scheifele playing against the exact same competition (literally - as they were usually on the same line). Given that, there is no reason to believe that he couldn't contribute more to the Jets than Mark will THIS season. As I mentioned above, Mark undoubtably has the higher upside, but Ivan is closer to reaching that potential. Having said that, it's not like either would compete for ROY this year. They are going to be in the 3-5 goals and 10 -12 points range at best in a 48 season. If Mark stays up for the year, I would hope that Jets fans will be pleased with that. Anything beyond is unfair expectations...

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01-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #320
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If we could re do the 2011 Draft again do you guys think we should of taken Dougie Hamilton ?

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01-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #321
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There is an article in today's FP about Nazem Kadri of the Leafs, that speaks to the Scheifele situation, IMO.
Kadri, like Scheif, was drafted 7th overall by a weaker team, plays centre and had similar PPG in his last year in the OHL.
He ended up spending 4 seasons in Junior, the better parts of 2 additional seasons in the AHL (with call-ups to the Leafs) and looks like he is finally settling in as a top-6 forward this year, at the age of 22.
None of the centres drafted after him in the 2009 1st round have made an impact in the NHL, other than M Johansson of the Caps(#24 overall).
Leaf fans had similar expectations for Kadri as we have for Scheif.
Kadri attributes his blossoming to his new coach, but history proves otherwise.
Patience is the order of the day.

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01-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
There is an article in today's FP about Nazem Kadri of the Leafs, that speaks to the Scheifele situation, IMO.
Kadri, like Scheif, was drafted 7th overall by a weaker team, plays centre and had similar PPG in his last year in the OHL.
He ended up spending 4 seasons in Junior, the better parts of 2 additional seasons in the AHL (with call-ups to the Leafs) and looks like he is finally settling in as a top-6 forward this year, at the age of 22.
None of the centres drafted after him in the 2009 1st round have made an impact in the NHL, other than M Johansson of the Caps(#24 overall).
Leaf fans had similar expectations for Kadri as we have for Scheif.
Kadri attributes his blossoming to his new coach, but history proves otherwise.
Patience is the order of the day.
The big dif is Kari was weak defensively and Scheif is really responsible

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01-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Kadri attributes his blossoming to his new coach, but history proves otherwise.
This is what he says -
"Before I didn't really get the impression that I was kind of wanted in the lineup or I really deserved the minutes that I may have gotten," Kadri said following Friday's practice. "With Randy it's a whole different ballgame.
"He makes me feel like I belong here and I can be a big contributor here and I feel like that as well. As a young guy I just needed others to believe in me as well."

Funny that he only starts breaking out and probably has more confidence after a coaching change. Just coincidence?

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01-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #324
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If we could re do the 2011 Draft again do you guys think we should of taken Dougie Hamilton ?
Not really, given that we got Trouba the very next year.

Our need is easily at C right now.

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01-26-2013, 02:11 PM
  #325
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Our need is easily at C right now.
I would say top end C.

But the reality is we need top four LHD the most.

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