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P.K. Subban Thread - 7.0 - Great with computers

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Old
01-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
And when Cammalari ang Gionta mention that the fact that Gomez was acquired by the Habs made them more willing to sign with the club?
Wrong. It amazes me this continues to be dug up but here we are.

Gionta commented on Gomez but said that did not weigh much on his decision. He was impressed with the history of the Habs and taken aback by their adamant push for him. In short, he never anticipated a highly profiled team like Montreal would gun for him.

Cammalleri had already stated he wished to sign out east, citing Toronto and Montreal has preferred destinations. Vancouver was dark horse had neither of the aforementioned made an offer. He opted for Montreal because Toronto was his "home away from hockey" and he was afraid playing for the Maple Leafs would make it difficult.

Gomez had no influence on either of their decision.

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01-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
That's the part where if I'm Subban, I really need to think about if this is all worth it...

Even if he signs a bridge deal today for 2 years, he could potentially start negotiating for a long term deal, assuming he still wants that, as soon as next January. So really, he just needs to wait 1 more year before he'll be able to sign that deal.

But alot can happen in one year...you never know when your career can be taken from under you.

This is a tough one...but again, I continue to believe that BOTH sides want the same things, which really should be reassuring for Habs fans who still want Subban to stay...
All we want as fans is for PK to stay a HABS for many many years to come, the way it get settle is not in our hands.... let's wait and see and how it turn out, if it ever ends that he's traded for 2 turds and a pick, i'll be there criticizing like everyone else... i'm gone wait till this happen first before jumping everywhere

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01-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
The truth of one might be the lie for another, don't go thinking that because you say something and you believe it, that it is necessary the truth, people who don't open up to other horizons....
Sometimes the truth is the truth. We're not talking about the latest painting of some famous artist here. We're not talking about which color you like best.

But let's agree to disagree.

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01-25-2013, 07:55 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Bergevin painted himself in a corner like the moron that he is.


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New vistas and horizons of intellectual fulfillment being reached in this thread.
Happy to oblige


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01-25-2013, 07:56 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Or maybe he has proven enough but the Habs want to build the philosophy of bridge contracts?
I think people put way too much thought in this whole philosophy thing. If Subban had won the Norris à-la Karlsson, I'm sure Montreal would have signed him long-term.

Subban just hasn't proven all he needs to prove at this point.

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01-25-2013, 07:56 PM
  #581
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I don't understand.

PK hasn't really proven anything at this point. I want my top offensive defenceman getting more than 40 pts per year. Subban hasn't shown that he can do that.

There's also been questions about chemistry with others on the team and he's had some disagreements with the coaches in the past.

There are still some holes in his game and some improvements to be made on his end. He's young and that makes sense. Perfectly normal.

I don't want to be paying Subban $5.5-6m a year for 6 years as the player he is now. Can he be worth that money? Yes and in my opinion, he probably would be over 6 years.
But he can also stop progressing, and he could even regress. It's happened to great players (especially ones that rely on their physical ability to stand out - see Mike Green who's had 56, 73, and 76 point seasons and who has pretty much fallen off the earth since).

Last thing you want is to be stuck with an overpaid contract for that long. The 2-yr bridge is so that they can get a better sense of how Subban will play for the next two years. If he shows he's one of the top d-men in the league, give him $6.5m long term. If he stalls, we can re-sign him to another more realistic contract.

It's a perfectly logical line of thought to want to give him another 2 years before signing him to a big long-term contract. I can see the benefit of a long-term contract as well, especially if that's what PK really wants, but you guys are the morons if you can't understand why MB could want to stick to his guns at 2 years, especially when PK is a RFA and has no real leverage.
He had 38 pts his rookie year and and 36 last year...on a team that traditionally, doesn't score alot of goals.

So if PK had gotten 6 more points over the course of the last 2 years, you'd be more willing to pay him a long term deal today then you are now? lol come on...sounds a bit ridiculous don't you think?

Also, if PK signs a bridge deal...at his current rate of progression, after a difficult negotiation, he's going to cost more than 6.5M per season on his next deal.

I have no problem with MB's 'policy'...where I do have a problem though, and this goes for both sides, is losing one of your most dynamic and important players because you're unable to be flexible on the matter

That's unnaceptable IMO

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01-25-2013, 07:58 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by fufonzo View Post
Why would anybody be talking about trading Subban for those guys? Couturier is the only that would make some sense in that entire list.
don't get involve in a conversation if you didn't follow since the beginning....

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01-25-2013, 07:58 PM
  #583
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You can tell I'm right about most things though.
No i can't

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01-25-2013, 08:00 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Wrong. It amazes me this continues to be dug up but here we are.

Gionta commented on Gomez but said that did not weigh much on his decision. He was impressed with the history of the Habs and taken aback by their adamant push for him. In short, he never anticipated a highly profiled team like Montreal would gun for him.

Cammalleri had already stated he wished to sign out east, citing Toronto and Montreal has preferred destinations. Vancouver was dark horse had neither of the aforementioned made an offer. He opted for Montreal because Toronto was his "home away from hockey" and he was afraid playing for the Maple Leafs would make it difficult.

Gomez had no influence on either of their decision.
he said this, he said that, i was just stating that we might not know all the facts about why Gainey traded for Gomez and why he sent the players he sent.....

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01-25-2013, 08:00 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
All we want as fans is for PK to stay a HABS for many many years to come, the way it get settle is not in our hands.... let's wait and see and how it turn out, if it ever ends that he's traded for 2 turds and a pick, i'll be there criticizing like everyone else... i'm gone wait till this happen first before jumping everywhere
agreed...I know all this trade talk that's been drummed up by the media has us all pulling our hair out. But common sense still points to both sides eventually signing a deal.

We're still a LONG way away from the Habs even entertaining the thought of trading Subban. Hell, had it even crossed their mind, i'm not sure they would of even met today.

Let's all take a deep breath...

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01-25-2013, 08:01 PM
  #586
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Wow at all the hate towards MB, I mean they're still discussing the contract and PK is likely not going anywhere and people throw all kinds of shots to MB for not signing him all the top $ he wants.

I don't know if people want a team that will win long-term with a balanced budget or if they just want to see PK make tons of money.

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01-25-2013, 08:01 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Sometimes the truth is the truth. We're not talking about the latest painting of some famous artist here. We're not talking about which color you like best.

But let's agree to disagree.
i don't have a problem with that....

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01-25-2013, 08:01 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
42pts in 65 games is impressive, for a rookie in his first season.

Subban delivered 38pts in 77 games. Still good but he was 20 years old when he started his first full season, after a season played in the AHL, while Hall was 18 years old and came right out from the OHL.
Subban is also a dman....

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01-25-2013, 08:02 PM
  #589
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Maybe apropos of nothing: early week, Subban #Habs Brossard stall had nameplate, 2 helmets above it. Today: blank nameplate, helmets removed

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01-25-2013, 08:02 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
it didn't take much time during Pac bridge contract for the Habs to give him a long term extension... what makes you think that if PK signs for two years and he has a great season, that it won't satisfy Bergevin and CO and that this summer, they don't offer him that 5 or 6 or 7 years contract??? We don't know it all....
Why should he have to satisfy them anymore? Subban is among the best young defensemen in the league. He has proven himself. McDonagh's contract is up after this season. I guarantee he will ask and get a contract similar to Marc Staal's: nearly $4M per. Hell, he may get more if he has another season like his last. New York will not have any of this bridging nonsense.

If Subban is traded solely out of maintaining a stubborn and archaic philosophy. Management is continuing their ineptitude.

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01-25-2013, 08:03 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Wow at all the hate towards MB, I mean they're still discussing the contract and PK is likely not going anywhere and people throw all kinds of shots to MB for not signing him all the top $ he wants.

I don't know if people want a team that will win long-term with a balanced budget or if they just want to see PK make tons of money.
Let's be honest though...a bridge deal right now balances the budget for next year.

Beyond that though...the Habs are going to pay out of their *** to keep Subban. This of course is assuming his career continues on the current progression it's been on

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01-25-2013, 08:03 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
All we want as fans is for PK to stay a HABS for many many years to come, the way it get settle is not in our hands.... let's wait and see and how it turn out, if it ever ends that he's traded for 2 turds and a pick, i'll be there criticizing like everyone else... i'm gone wait till this happen first before jumping everywhere
The problem I have is that Bergevin isn't jumping at the chance to sign Subban to a long term deal and has instead turned what should have been an easy move into something negative and a distraction. It does not bode well for the future.

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01-25-2013, 08:04 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
He had 38 pts his rookie year and and 36 last year...on a team that traditionally, doesn't score alot of goals.

So if PK had gotten 6 more points over the course of the last 2 years, you'd be more willing to pay him a long term deal today then you are now? lol come on...sounds a bit ridiculous don't you think?

Also, if PK signs a bridge deal...at his current rate of progression, after a difficult negotiation, he's going to cost more than 6.5M per season on his next deal.

I have no problem with MB's 'policy'...where I do have a problem though, and this goes for both sides, is losing one of your most dynamic and important players because you're unable to be flexible on the matter

That's unnaceptable IMO
Well looking at his point totals, at this rate of progression, he'd be scoring 26 points in 5 years.

I want Subban signed as much as anybody. I'm sure if Subban agreed to $4m/yr over 6 years, MB would sign.

The issue is Subban thinks he's worth a certain amount over 6 years and MB doesn't believe he's shown that he's worth that much yet.
That's the point of a bridge contract, to allow the player to get rid of any doubts management might have about their worth.

I want Subban signed and I'd love to him signed right now, but those attacking MB based on absolutely no information don't seem to understand how this works. There are two sides to negotiations.

If we got confirmation that MB was offering $2.5m for 2 years, then yes I'd be upset. but a $4m/yr offer for 2 years would be more than reasonable of an offer to make (I'd personally go as high as $4.5 even).

But if Subban is refusing solely based on the fact that it's not long term, he's as much to blame as management.

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01-25-2013, 08:05 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post

Nice !

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01-25-2013, 08:05 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The problem I have is that Bergevin isn't jumping at the chance to sign Subban to a long term deal and has instead turned what should have been an easy move into something negative and a distraction. It does not bode well for the future.
it's not the first negociations in the NHL that is hard, it doesn't mean that all hell will brake lose....

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01-25-2013, 08:05 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs
Maybe apropos of nothing: early week, Subban #Habs Brossard stall had nameplate, 2 helmets above it. Today: blank nameplate, helmets removed
Next thing we know, someone will 'discover' Couturier's gloves at the Bell Centre

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01-25-2013, 08:06 PM
  #597
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he said this, he said that, i was just stating that we might not know all the facts about why Gainey traded for Gomez and why he sent the players he sent.....
Why he did it is irrelevant. There was no valid excuse to dump Koivu and move valuable assets for one of the worst contracts in the league. While this is pure conjecture, I have long believed Gainey panicked following the horrendous centennial season and blew up the core in order to save his job. His early departure in December, when the new era managed to perform worse, only adds credence to the theory.

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01-25-2013, 08:06 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs
Maybe apropos of nothing: early week, Subban #Habs Brossard stall had nameplate, 2 helmets above it. Today: blank nameplate, helmets removed
And a lot of people here always blame the french media for non story and jumping the gun.....

good work Dave Stubbs

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01-25-2013, 08:07 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
To the Oilers, he might have proven enough, which is clearly not the case for PK for the Habs....
Which clearly indicates that the Habs management is brain dead.

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01-25-2013, 08:07 PM
  #600
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IF Bergevin trade Subban it better be for a TOP player.....

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