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P.K. Subban Thread - 7.0 - Great with computers

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01-25-2013, 07:30 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Enthusiasm? lol ok.. I'd much rather him not be so enthusiastic if it'd allow him to make the right read. Dedication? Well where is he? And how is he more dedicated than any other player we have?

PK has definitely progressed since he joined the NHL, but to be honest, I thought he'd be better. I know you guys have some website that tells you he's the 2nd best dman in the league and all sorts of other arguments, but none of that crap can cover up his lack of hockey IQ. I do think he will get better, because that's the kind of character he has, but who's to say he doesn't get paid and not care as much? He's really got a lot to learn to be considered elite. There are lots of guys around the league that have shown more already and are younger to boot.
I happen to think PK has a refreshing attitude on the ice and it's his enthusiasm that makes him such a polarizing figure for fans/media in a sport that is terribly bland and void of personality. I happen to like that...I know that's not the 'hockey purist' cupt of tea, and that's fine.

As far as dedication...i've said this before, but if you had any idea of the odds he had to beat to make it to where he is today, not saying that other players have it easy either mind you, you wouldn't be questionning his dedication.

As for the rest of your post...if you agree he will get better, then I don't know why we're debating this. Is there a risk he gets paid and doesn't care as much? Sure...but that risk is there anytime you sign a player to any deal.

Also, there are alot of guys around the league who have shown more already and are younger, I agree...but there are equally, if not more guys, who have shown less, and got paid.

And whether you think that matters or not...it gives him the right to believe he's worth more than what they're offering

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01-25-2013, 07:31 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs
Maybe apropos of nothing: early week, Subban #Habs Brossard stall had nameplate, 2 helmets above it. Today: blank nameplate, helmets removed
Might just be so that players aren't distracted by the Subban saga. One place less where they will see his name. Focus on practice. That is Michel Therrien's MO. Concentrate on the players that ARE there.

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01-25-2013, 07:31 PM
  #628
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I know this has been said many times in this thread but I'd just like to reiterate the point:

Sean Couturier is not a Quebecois. He was born in Phoenix and later grew up in New Brunswick. I know many people want him because they believe he's indeed a French-Canadian, this is untrue so just stop with that nonsense.

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01-25-2013, 07:31 PM
  #629
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i can live with that, but you don't need to be aggressive the answer you give, now could have been given in the previous post and it would have been more appreciate... have a nice evening....
Yhea sure. Next time someone says something completely dumb and pull out of their ass, I'll just put on my pretty hat and respectfully ask their to reconsider their opinions. That always works well.

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01-25-2013, 07:32 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Firstly...i'm uncomfortable
Really? You really found a way to not take that as a complement? Stop being childish dude, you're a great poster, that's all. No homo.

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Secondly...again, if the Habs manage to get Subban signed to a 2 year bridge contract at below value, it means that next negotiation, they're going to have to 'compensate' for the tremendous value they've had him at ove the course of what will be his 5 year career at that point
No, I don't believe that to be the truth.
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He won't have to put up a Norris season to get paid then...you can print that
Ridiculous
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Again...TODAY, Subban's value on the open market is AT THE VERY LEAST 4.5M, and i'm being extremely conservative here.
His actual value? I'd say 4-4.5. UFA/Open market does not accurately represent a players "actual" value imo. It's generally a bidding war, just like the trade deadline.
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2 years from now, based on Subban's development curve...6.5M is not going to get it done
Ridiculous
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
that's the cold truth...and its why I find it so perplexing that MB is dead set on signing him to a 2 year deal, it seems extremely short sighted.
Or maybe, just maybe, you overrate your favorite player and the guys being paid millions of dollars to manage the team are on to something.

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01-25-2013, 07:35 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Really? You really found a way to not take that as a complement? Stop being childish dude, you're a great poster, that's all. No homo.


No, I don't believe that to be the truth.

Ridiculous

His actual value? I'd say 4-4.5. UFA/Open market does not accurately represent a players "actual" value imo. It's generally a bidding war, just like the trade deadline.

Ridiculous

Or maybe, just maybe, you overrate your favorite player and the guys being paid millions of dollars to manage the team are on to something.
I was kidding...forgot to add the sarcasm smiley lol

Also, PK isn't my favorite player...Markov has and always was my favorite player.

As for the rest of your post...I guess we disagree on PK's current value and what it may be 2 years from now

Now if we can't agree on that, imagine how difficult it must be for the parties involved.

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01-25-2013, 07:35 PM
  #632
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I love you 417, but he's got a looooooong way to go to get Doughty money... You're pretty much implying that he will be up for the Norris in these next 2-3 seasons. I'll believe it when I see it..
That's not exactly true. Doughty money is one dominant season away for Subban.

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01-25-2013, 07:36 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Yhea sure. Next time someone says something completely dumb and pull out of their ass, I'll just put on my pretty hat and respectfully ask their to reconsider their opinions. That always works well.
since you don't seem to have good manner, enjoy the rest of your life...

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01-25-2013, 07:36 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Firstly...i'm uncomfortable

Secondly...again, if the Habs manage to get Subban signed to a 2 year bridge contract at below value, it means that next negotiation, they're going to have to 'compensate' for the tremendous value they've had him at ove the course of what will be his 5 year career at that point

He won't have to put up a Norris season to get paid then...you can print that

Again...TODAY, Subban's value on the open market is AT THE VERY LEAST 4.5M, and i'm being extremely conservative here.

2 years from now, based on Subban's development curve...6.5M is not going to get it done

that's the cold truth...and its why I find it so perplexing that MB is dead set on signing him to a 2 year deal, it seems extremely short sighted.
I dont know man, your from Ottawa Im from Ottawa and want to agree with you, although we have seen lots of good things from PK we have also seen a lot of bad, arguing with your coach on national tv, he's had 2 full seasons of #1 pp time and has been average at best for his supposed bread and butter. The lack of maturity so far along with a big $$ contract Im worried about how inflated his head will be, he gonna make it rain on them oes. All kidding aside as someone mentioned his defensive game as been really good but the maturity worries me and thats the only thing that stops me from signing him long term.

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01-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I know this has been said many times in this thread but I'd just like to reiterate the point:

Sean Couturier is not a Quebecois. He was born in Phoenix and later grew up in New Brunswick. I know many people want him because they believe he's indeed a French-Canadian, this is untrue so just stop with that nonsense.
Well, technically, if he is descended from a French-Canadian, lived in Canada, and spoke French at home, he IS a French-Canadian.

But that is now why I like Couturier. I like him because he is a 6'4" Centre with lot of skill and plenty of hockey IQ, including huge defensive upside.

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01-25-2013, 07:39 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Well, technically, if he is descended from a French-Canadian, lived in Canada, and spoke French at home, he IS a French-Canadian.

But that is not why I like Couturier. I like him because he is a 6'4" Centre with lot of skill and plenty of hockey IQ, including huge defensive upside.
Emphasis edit

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01-25-2013, 07:39 PM
  #637
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That's not exactly true. Doughty money is one dominant season away for Subban.
what is this notion that you need to win a trophy to get paid? What did trophy did Carey Price win to get paid like he's a top 5 goalie?

Price got paid for his worth to this organization...if PK signs a 2 year deal at below value, and continues to progress as he has and continues to be used 25+ mins a game in all situations like they've used him

what do you think his worth to the organzation will be 2 years from now? especially in HIS eyes after he just went through a difficult negotiation where he might feel he got the short end of the stick?

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01-25-2013, 07:39 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Well, technically, if he is descended from a French-Canadian, lived in Canada, and spoke French at home, he IS a French-Canadian.

But that is now why I like Couturier. I like him because he is a 6'4" Centre with lot of skill and plenty of hockey IQ, including huge defensive upside.
There's a lot of reasons to like Couturier. But if there's anything this team has enough of, it's 2nd and 3rd line centers.

People hate Eller for not producing 50 points on the 3rd line, and they want to replace our best defenseman with a rich man's Eller?

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01-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by e46330ivs View Post
I dont know man, your from Ottawa Im from Ottawa and want to agree with you, although we have seen lots of good things from PK we have also seen a lot of bad, arguing with your coach on national tv, he's had 2 full seasons of #1 pp time and has been average at best for his supposed bread and butter. The lack of maturity so far along with a big $$ contract Im worried about how inflated his head will be, he gonna make it rain on them oes. All kidding aside as someone mentioned his defensive game as been really good but the maturity worries me and thats the only thing that stops me from signing him long term.
I'm not going to answer this...because I find it extremely insulting for many different reasons

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01-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #640
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There's a lot of reasons to like Couturier. But if there's anything this team has enough of, it's 2nd and 3rd line centers.

People hate Eller for not producing 50 points on the 3rd line, and they want to replace our best defenseman with a rich man's Eller?
He's bigger. Has more potential.

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01-25-2013, 07:42 PM
  #641
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There's a lot of reasons to like Couturier. But if there's anything this team has enough of, it's 2nd and 3rd line centers.

People hate Eller for not producing 50 points on the 3rd line, and they want to replace our best defenseman with a rich man's Eller?
Not convince about Eller, not willing to give the bank to Desharnais so Galcheniuk, Plekanec and Coututier sounds okay

i'd rather keep PK

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01-25-2013, 07:43 PM
  #642
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He's bigger. Has more potential.
So, he's the rich man's Eller?

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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Not convince about Eller, not willing to give the bank to Desharnais so Galcheniuk, Plekanec and Coututier sounds okay

i'd rather keep PK
Couturier is an improvement, but it's an improvement in an area that's already a team strength. That's a good trade if you have to trade PK, it's not a good trade if you are just doing it to make a statement about bridge contracts.

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01-25-2013, 07:44 PM
  #643
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And you are saint? Nobody know what's going on with the contract talk, do not make any assumption.
Well that's exactly my point there champ. People are calling MB an idiot when they have no clue what's going on. So no, I'm not a Saint, I'm just a Habs fan.
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Or a less extreme case, Drew Doughty has hardly scored more points than Subban in the past two years...because he focused on his defensive game. And the Kings had no problem paying him after putting up "only" 40 points.
Because he is elite at everything. Almost won the Norris at 20 years old...
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I happen to think PK has a refreshing attitude on the ice and it's his enthusiasm that makes him such a polarizing figure for fans/media in a sport that is terribly bland and void of personality. I happen to like that...I know that's not the 'hockey purist' cupt of tea, and that's fine.
Hey, I like him too, but just because he takes wild windups and trash talks doesn't make him a better player. Markov is the polar opposite and is simply better at everything. My point is "enthusiasm" is irrelevant, effectiveness is what I care about.
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As far as dedication...i've said this before, but if you had any idea of the odds he had to beat to make it to where he is today, not saying that other players have it easy either mind you, you wouldn't be questionning his dedication.
I'm not questioning his dedication, but you are implying that he is more dedicated than others. I asked you to quantify that. Just because he grew up in Rexdale, don't mean a thing. His parents were obviously always there for him and were a very positive influence. Not taking anything away from him, but other players are dedicated too you know.
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As for the rest of your post...if you agree he will get better, then I don't know why we're debating this. Is there a risk he gets paid and doesn't care as much? Sure...but that risk is there anytime you sign a player to any deal.

Also, there are alot of guys around the league who have shown more already and are younger, I agree...but there are equally, if not more guys, who have shown less, and got paid.

And whether you think that matters or not...it gives him the right to believe he's worth more than what they're offering
Just because other teams have made mistakes we should do the same?

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01-25-2013, 07:45 PM
  #644
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There's a lot of reasons to like Couturier. But if there's anything this team has enough of, it's 2nd and 3rd line centers.

People hate Eller for not producing 50 points on the 3rd line, and they want to replace our best defenseman with a rich man's Eller?
Lars Eller, 23, 6'0, 198, best year 28 points in 79 games

Sean Couturier, 20, 6'4 190, first year in the NHL 27 points in 77 games....

OK......

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01-25-2013, 07:48 PM
  #645
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Lars Eller, 23, 6'0, 198, best year 28 points in 79 games

Sean Couturier, 20, 6'4 190, first year in the NHL 27 points in 77 games....

OK......
Definitely worth trading PK for.

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01-25-2013, 07:48 PM
  #646
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I was kidding...forgot to add the sarcasm smiley lol
I had a feeling..my b lol
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Also, PK isn't my favorite player...Markov has and always was my favorite player.
Now that's something we agree 100% on.
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As for the rest of your post...I guess we disagree on PK's current value and what it may be 2 years from now

Now if we can't agree on that, imagine how difficult it must be for the parties involved.
So true. Let's just hope he signs, I really want to see this defense at full potential.
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That's not exactly true. Doughty money is one dominant season away for Subban.
Gimme that dominant season and I will be at the front lines fighting the good fight.

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01-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #647
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So, he's the rich man's Eller?
At the worst, yes. At the best, he's quite the upgrade. Eller hasn't convinced me yet he can carry a line; we always seemed to rely heavily on wingmen...

Couturier might replace him in our Centre depth, and achieve much greater role long-term.

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01-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #648
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Because he is elite at everything. Almost won the Norris at 20 years old...
And yet he only really matured his game by improving on the defensive side, even as his point total fell. That is because two way defenders are more valuable.

I'm not saying Subban is as good as Doughty. He's not and he doesn't deserve Doughty money. But they play similar roles, and in fact Subban almost scored as many points in a more defensive role last year. And more importantly...I'd rather have a 40 point top tier defender like Subban than a superior offensive player at the expense of defense.

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01-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #649
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If PK is trade on the Eastern Conference, the teams i can agree with are the NYI-WIN and FLO.

If its NYI Hamonic + Okposo/1st/Nino/Reinhart
If its WIN Bogosian/Kane + ?
If its FLO Huberdeau + Gudbranson

In the West its ANA

ANA for Ryan

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01-25-2013, 07:50 PM
  #650
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Let's be honest though...a bridge deal right now balances the budget for next year.

Beyond that though...the Habs are going to pay out of their *** to keep Subban. This of course is assuming his career continues on the current progression it's been on
Yeah but Kaberle will be gone, Cole is likely to retire, Gionta will have to make a new contract which will not be at 5M$ a year. René Bourque will either make 2.5M$ a year or he'll be gone. Markov will make less than 5.75M$ a year, unless we see the second coming and he suddenly becomes much better than pre-injury.

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