HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K. Subban Thread - 7.0 - Great with computers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2013, 08:08 PM
  #676
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
He thinks that Diaz speaks french but i am pretty sure it's not the case.
Hmm, I can't find an interview with Diaz in French, I know most Swiss people are bilingual, but apparently Diaz is from a very German part of the country.

Okay, replace Diaz with Yannick Weber and the point stays the same.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:09 PM
  #677
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
He was 28th in points produced, take that one. He was a relative + on his team and his advanced stats are the real ones to look at for his defense... they argue that he is far above 28th on defense, that his defense is better than his offense (which most of us agree with on qualitative observation). 24 NHL defensemen make $5M or more. Soooo... suppose you put him 25th. Doesn't need to be 10th. 25th is worth $5M.
He was also #1 in drawing penalties. So yeah, he was the most penalized but he drew more than anyone else too.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:09 PM
  #678
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He was also #1 in drawing penalties. So yeah, he was the most penalized but he drew more than anyone else too.
He also drew more than he conceded, so he was a net positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
And this important because.....???
Because the only advantage trading for Couturier gives us is greater average height. It's a move that can work if you then flip Eller and maybe Plekanec for defenders, but it's unlikely you will end up with someone as good as Subban without sacrificing youth.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:10 PM
  #679
Genghis Keon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 809
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Few interesting stats about Subban. Because many of you are found of them.

Last season, PK, for a defenseman...

was 80th in blocked shots
was 73rd in hits
was 3rd WORST in give aways
was 56th in take aways
was 1st in penalties
was 47th in +/-
was 28th in points
was 36th in goals
was 24th in assists

So logically he should be paid as a top-10 d-man in this league...


Kimmo Timonen has the 10th highest D cap hit at 6.3 million/year. Paul Martin has the 24th highest D cap hit at 5 million/year. The 50th highest D cap hit is 4 million/year.


http://www.capgeek.com/leaders/?type=CAP_HIT&position=D&limit=50

Genghis Keon is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:16 PM
  #680
e46330ivs*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 237
vCash: 500
no doubt he's got the skill, the size, but you need the 6" between the ears to be a real complete player and thats why I would hesitate to give him the long term deal, dont know if he's got the head to play within a structured system and be a true team player.

e46330ivs* is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:16 PM
  #681
pepperMonkey
Registered User
 
pepperMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,407
vCash: 500
Sorry, haven't read the last 10 pages or so...
Is it now pretty much official? We finally have a stud D again after Markov and McD... Markov is getting old and injury prone, and we throw away McD, and now we are gonna trade Subban unless he signs a 2-3 bridge contract? Is this team nuts?

pepperMonkey is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:18 PM
  #682
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The dumbest one is "1st in penalties", what a dumb stat.

An objective observer would, at a minimum take the difference between penalties assigned and penalties drawn at ES, then divide by total ice time at ES, and then remove all dmen who have played less than ~500 minutes or so.
No, they are not dependent of one another so there is no need to do that. All you should care about is the fact that Subban would be THAT much better if he didn't take so many penalties. The fact he draws them, is a plus.

HankyZetts is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:18 PM
  #683
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,258
vCash: 50
Or maybe

Subban + Eller + 1st round pick + Kristo

for

Ovechkin + Carlson

It smells and feels Pierre Gauthier but who knows maybe MT has the answer for Ovi.

Oh and the cap hit...

Alexdaman is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:19 PM
  #684
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Sorry, haven't read the last 10 pages or so...
Is it now pretty much official? We finally have a stud D again after Markov and McD... Markov is getting old and injury prone, and we throw away McD, and now we are gonna trade Subban unless he signs a 2-3 bridge contract? Is this team nuts?
Seems to be Habs' management objective, yhea.

Some of us are arguing if, were he to refuse to adhere to management's dogmatism, what we could get out of him.

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:19 PM
  #685
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Kimmo Timonen has the 10th highest D cap hit at 6.3 million/year. Paul Martin has the 24th highest D cap hit at 5 million/year. The 50th highest D cap hit is 4 million/year.


http://www.capgeek.com/leaders/?type=CAP_HIT&position=D&limit=50
that's crazy...the 50th highest D cap is 4M per year

The Habs initial offer to Subban was apparently 2.75M...

I get the bridge deal idea...but still

417 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:19 PM
  #686
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Or maybe

Subban + Eller + 1st round pick + Kristo

for

Ovechkin + Carlson

It smells and feels Pierre Gauthier but who knows maybe MT has the answer for Ovi.
Begone, foul creature!!!

Thou shall not trade for Ovechkin!

PricePkPatch is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:20 PM
  #687
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Or maybe

Subban + Eller + 1st round pick + Kristo

for

Ovechkin + Carlson

It smells and feels Pierre Gauthier but who knows maybe MT has the answer for Ovi.
Not enough. Subban is a bit more valuable than Carlson so you are basically offering Eller, Kristo, 1st for Ovechkin ...


I'd like to offer Edmonton:

Subban
Kristo
Eller
1st 2014

For

Hall or Nugent or Yakupov

Traitor8 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:22 PM
  #688
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
No, they are not dependent of one another so there is no need to do that. All you should care about is the fact that Subban would be THAT much better if he didn't take so many penalties. The fact he draws them, is a plus.
They are completely dependent on one another.

The same fiery and competitive personality that takes penalties, draws penalties.

DAChampion is online now  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:24 PM
  #689
dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
 
dackelljuneaubulis02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Not enough. Subban is a bit more valuable than Carlson so you are basically offering Eller, Kristo, 1st for Ovechkin

I'd like to offer Edmonton:

Subban
Kristo
Eller
1st 2014

For

Hall or Nugent or Yakupov
Let's not and say we did.

dackelljuneaubulis02 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:25 PM
  #690
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,258
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Not enough. Subban is a bit more valuable than Carlson so you are basically offering Eller, Kristo, 1st for Ovechkin ...


I'd like to offer Edmonton:

Subban
Kristo
Eller
1st 2014

For

Hall or Nugent or Yakupov
Well of course EDM would never accept that they've got a great start to their season... Hall is not more valuable than PK and 1st round pick. So Nugent or Yakupov, this will not happen.

Wash is dying in the beginning of the season they need a game changer so it's either trades or Adam Oates fired, I believe Ovi will bounce back one day but he needs a new home for it to happen.

Oh wait Wash tied it.

Alexdaman is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:27 PM
  #691
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
Well of course EDM would never accept that they've got a great start to their season... Hall is not more valuable than PK and 1st round pick. So Nugent or Yakupov, this will not happen.

Wash is dying in the beginning of the season they need a game changer so it's either trades or Adam Oates fired, I believe Ovi will bounce back one day but he needs a new home for it to happen.
What do you think it would take for Edmonton to part for 1 of them? What about

Subban
Eller
Leblanc
1st 2014


What would you give for Ovechkin? Who would you play him with? Are you not worried about his 9.5 M $ cap hit

Traitor8 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:31 PM
  #692
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,258
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
What do you think it would take for Edmonton to part for 1 of them? What about

Subban
Eller
Leblanc
1st 2014


What would you give for Ovechkin? Who would you play him with? Are you not worried about his 9.5 M $ cap hit

For Yakupov or Nugent I believe Edm wouldn't go for any less than

PK + Price + 1st

I'd have Ovechkin play with Pacioretty and Plekanec. I'm worried about the cap hit I don't think we should do it but it is an option.

Alexdaman is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:33 PM
  #693
sharks9
Registered User
 
sharks9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Few interesting stats about Subban. Because many of you are found of them.

Last season, PK, for a defenseman...

was 80th in blocked shots
was 73rd in hits
was 3rd WORST in give aways
was 56th in take aways
was 1st in penalties
was 47th in +/-
was 28th in points
was 36th in goals
was 24th in assists

So logically he should be paid as a top-10 d-man in this league...


Cherry picking stats is always a great idea!

sharks9 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:34 PM
  #694
pepperMonkey
Registered User
 
pepperMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Seems to be Habs' management objective, yhea.

Some of us are arguing if, were he to refuse to adhere to management's dogmatism, what we could get out of him.
Okay, thanks.
So we now have an inflexible, un-adaptable Hab's management? Great. Guess the principle is more important than icing the best team possible.
Well, I'm not against trading anyone but we better not screw this one up... Then again, who am I kidding? When's the last time we won a trade? Kovy? Seems we have a long list of just lost trades, and though we have new management...my optimism meter is rather dried up at the moment.
As for what we can get for him...unless it's someone who eventually can be a premiere 1st line forward, 1st pairing D or a better goalie than Price, I wouldn't be satisfied. Which pretty much means I'll most likely be unsatisfied. *sigh* I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

pepperMonkey is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:34 PM
  #695
Traitor8
Registered User
 
Traitor8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Iraq
Posts: 4,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Cherry picking stats is always a great idea!
Ya ..I don't get why he "forgot" to mention that Subban was 19th or something like that in ice-time among all SKATERS (not just defenseman)

Traitor8 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:35 PM
  #696
Alexdaman
Registered User
 
Alexdaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,258
vCash: 50
Pacioretty- Plekanec - Ovechkin ( he could go on the RW... I guess? )
Cole - DD - Bourque
Gallagher - Galchenyuk - Prust
Moen - White - Armstrong

Markov - Emelin
Carlson - Diaz
Bouillon - Gorges

Could work who knows. I'd be quite worried about our 2nd line


Last edited by Alexdaman: 01-25-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Alexdaman is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:36 PM
  #697
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Cherry picking stats is always a great idea!
I learned about this one the other day...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy

Funny story behind the name.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:39 PM
  #698
Genghis Keon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 809
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
that's crazy...the 50th highest D cap is 4M per year

The Habs initial offer to Subban was apparently 2.75M...

I get the bridge deal idea...but still
I don't think some posters realize how much how many of these guys are actually getting paid.

As a fan, I don't understand the issue here. I can't imagine he wouldn't sign for 5 million a year long term, and considering his impact on the game (counting stats and advanced stats) and his work ethic, I can't see why the Hab's brass wouldn't be willing to sign him as the 25th highest paid defenseman. As the years go by, he's going to drop down the list, not rise up it, so what the hell are we doing?

Genghis Keon is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:42 PM
  #699
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,952
vCash: 500
There is definitely something they know that we don't know. I would love to hear exactly what MB is hesitant about. That is, if it's true they are offering 2.75. That does seem low to me when you compare his stats.

Jigger77 is offline  
Old
01-25-2013, 08:43 PM
  #700
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,715
vCash: 500
A dollah make PK hollah honey boo boo child!

NotProkofievian is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.