HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Edmonton robbedemption

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-25-2013, 08:51 PM
  #676
dookers9
Registered User
 
dookers9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I would think that the circumstance would have to be taken into consideration. Eberle just got hit...not even that hard....by a legal check. Smid jumps in to defend him. To me that is instigating a fight. Just my take on it.

I hope they make this call every time a legal hit is made and someone feels that they have to "pay" for it. It's hockey...there will be hitting involved at some point.

Of course if an elbow to the head happens, get in there and take care of business as required.
There are endless threads in HF discussing the point and purpose of challenging a player to fight after having hit a teammate (especially a skilled one). Like it or not, it's part of the game. The fact that a big hit is legal means nothing; a teammate responds to let opponents know that their running around won't be tolerated. NOTHING is wrong with a hard-hitting game, don't get me wrong. But in hockey, Nolan's hit MEANS something more than just a pop - it's a message that "Your ass was kicked". Sure you can follow up with a big hit of your own or by targeting the other team's skill guy(s). But The Code (as mystical as it sounds) implies that a guy will often need to answer the bell for a big hit. Because if a player is left injured by either a legit or illegal hit, a 2 minute minor winds up as little consequence in the grand scheme, especially if a skill guy is out for the season with a torn ACL.

To your point about Smid having instigated since he approached Nolan... with the instigator rule in place, players know that: 1. they'll be nailed for jumping a guy, and that 2: if approached by a guy, you can turn down a fight that's proposed. Sure that player will get chirped at for being a ***** (or the like). But for the sake of strategy, guys do it all the time.

Credit Nan for answering the bell, or criticize him for having been stupid in taking the fight. But don't deny that when approached (Smid didn't drop the gloves and jump him in order for a need of self-defence), Nolan responded in a way that said he was good to go. Smid instigated nothing, mi amigo.

dookers9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 09:51 PM
  #677
HugginThePost
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookers9 View Post
There are endless threads in HF discussing the point and purpose of challenging a player to fight after having hit a teammate (especially a skilled one). Like it or not, it's part of the game. The fact that a big hit is legal means nothing; a teammate responds to let opponents know that their running around won't be tolerated. NOTHING is wrong with a hard-hitting game, don't get me wrong. But in hockey, Nolan's hit MEANS something more than just a pop - it's a message that "Your ass was kicked". Sure you can follow up with a big hit of your own or by targeting the other team's skill guy(s). But The Code (as mystical as it sounds) implies that a guy will often need to answer the bell for a big hit. Because if a player is left injured by either a legit or illegal hit, a 2 minute minor winds up as little consequence in the grand scheme, especially if a skill guy is out for the season with a torn ACL.

To your point about Smid having instigated since he approached Nolan... with the instigator rule in place, players know that: 1. they'll be nailed for jumping a guy, and that 2: if approached by a guy, you can turn down a fight that's proposed. Sure that player will get chirped at for being a ***** (or the like). But for the sake of strategy, guys do it all the time.

Credit Nan for answering the bell, or criticize him for having been stupid in taking the fight. But don't deny that when approached (Smid didn't drop the gloves and jump him in order for a need of self-defence), Nolan responded in a way that said he was good to go. Smid instigated nothing, mi amigo.
I'm really not sure what to say here. You admit that he was following the "code" by sticking up for his skill guy, something that is to be expected. You can't let hits like that go un-punished. But yet he didn't instigate the fight? I don't understand that. Smid instigated the fight by getting in his face after he legally hit Eberle.

On the same topic, let's say Eberle tore his MCL in that play. What did Smid do that would make that better? Getting beat up cures Eberle's knee. People are now afraid to hit the Oiler stars?? It all makes no sense?

I don't want to be the "get off my lawn" guy. But this is a relatively new thing. There were exceptions in the past, Gretz being the obvious one. But if you can't take a clean hit without someone having to attack the player for you, maybe hockey isn't your sport?

HugginThePost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 10:23 PM
  #678
dookers9
Registered User
 
dookers9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I'm really not sure what to say here. You admit that he was following the "code" by sticking up for his skill guy, something that is to be expected. You can't let hits like that go un-punished. But yet he didn't instigate the fight? I don't understand that. Smid instigated the fight by getting in his face after he legally hit Eberle.

On the same topic, let's say Eberle tore his MCL in that play. What did Smid do that would make that better? Getting beat up cures Eberle's knee. People are now afraid to hit the Oiler stars?? It all makes no sense?

I don't want to be the "get off my lawn" guy. But this is a relatively new thing. There were exceptions in the past, Gretz being the obvious one. But if you can't take a clean hit without someone having to attack the player for you, maybe hockey isn't your sport?
Never said it was a perfect science, one that makes sense all the time. Just responding to your appeal that big hits shouldn't have to elicit a challenge to fight. And I disagree that this is a "relatively new thing". I can't, nor do I claim to, speak to your personal experience with the game of hockey. But this mentality had accompanied all my years playing in far lesser levels of leagues. And while I agree that Gretzky was certainly "stuck up for", the concept of defending a teammate has been commonplace in the NHL for as long as I can recall.

Your point about Eberle's hypothetical MCL is fair: fighting Nolan doesn't somehow "repair" the damage done. But intimidation is far more a part of hockey than it is a part of soccer, for instance. Knowing that you'll have to face the risk of having your face punched by an opponent that wants to set you straight no doubt has an influence on a player's likelihood to bash another body, let alone an impact on the momentum that is at play.

To your point about instigation, I guess it's apples to oranges unless we're talking the same definition. Going up to a player while play is still on and asking another to fight doesn't amount to instigation, and the NHL would agree. Instigation is the act of dropping the gloves and beginning to fight, whereby the play is needing to be stopped. I'll have to acknowledge being wrong if highlights confirm otherwise - I'm going by recollection, here - but my memory doesn't have Smid attacking Nolan. Instead, he challenged him, and responded to Nolan's willingness by (simultaneously) dropping the gloves from there.

But each to his own, I suppose.

I am in agreement that the frequency of fights that are evoked by hits can get a little ridiculous. But if the league (read: predominantly American media) eradicates fighting, a lot of people that appreciate its role in hockey figure the game will change, and not for the better.

dookers9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 10:44 PM
  #679
Puritania
Skooma Addict
 
Puritania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Omicron Persei 8
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,240
vCash: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by dookers9 View Post
Never said it was a perfect science, one that makes sense all the time. Just responding to your appeal that big hits shouldn't have to elicit a challenge to fight. And I disagree that this is a "relatively new thing". I can't, nor do I claim to, speak to your personal experience with the game of hockey. But this mentality had accompanied all my years playing in far lesser levels of leagues. And while I agree that Gretzky was certainly "stuck up for", the concept of defending a teammate has been commonplace in the NHL for as long as I can recall.

Your point about Eberle's hypothetical MCL is fair: fighting Nolan doesn't somehow "repair" the damage done. But intimidation is far more a part of hockey than it is a part of soccer, for instance. Knowing that you'll have to face the risk of having your face punched by an opponent that wants to set you straight no doubt has an influence on a player's likelihood to bash another body, let alone an impact on the momentum that is at play.

To your point about instigation, I guess it's apples to oranges unless we're talking the same definition. Going up to a player while play is still on and asking another to fight doesn't amount to instigation, and the NHL would agree. Instigation is the act of dropping the gloves and beginning to fight, whereby the play is needing to be stopped. I'll have to acknowledge being wrong if highlights confirm otherwise - I'm going by recollection, here - but my memory doesn't have Smid attacking Nolan. Instead, he challenged him, and responded to Nolan's willingness by (simultaneously) dropping the gloves from there.

But each to his own, I suppose.

I am in agreement that the frequency of fights that are evoked by hits can get a little ridiculous. But if the league (read: predominantly American media) eradicates fighting, a lot of people that appreciate its role in hockey figure the game will change, and not for the better.
Actually, Nolan had his gloves off before Smid did.

Puritania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 10:51 PM
  #680
oakfield
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I could be wrong here, but skating to the blue line with arms in the air, dropping to your knees and sliding 100ft while fist pumping could be construed as disrespectful to the guy you just scored on. If you feel differently then I would venture a guess that you never played goal.

I am not arguing whether what he did was right or wrong....I don't care. Just that there is a double standard when it comes to what is acceptable in celebrations. If Quick had done that, **** would have hit the fan. We have come to expect, and accept, it from the goal scorer, as a goalie I find them all disrespectful.

To which some will respond with...."then stop the puck!" To which I would add, they do about .920% of the time. Not once taunting the shooter. No jumping up and down, no slides, no pounding the glass....nothing. Give the ref the puck....get ready to stop the next one.

Now that would make for a pretty boring game......so I'm not behind it 100%. But don't say celebrating the way he did, or any one for that matter, doesn't disrespect the goalie.
Quick was chirping him earlier.

oakfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 10:52 PM
  #681
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
Actually, Nolan had his gloves off before Smid did.
Exactly. Out of all the bad calls in this game on both sides, this one pisses me off the worst. That was a fight. They both were willing. Save the instigator for when a guy jumps another after a big legal hit. Stop phasing fighting out of hockey.

Cawz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 11:18 PM
  #682
necrobot
Registered User
 
necrobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
Well, there's a lot of people saying Yakupov treated that goal like it was game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

Maybe it's time this team treated every goal like it was game 7 of the cup finals in overtime.

necrobot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2013, 11:32 PM
  #683
stratedge
Rebuild, year 4...
 
stratedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I could be wrong here, but skating to the blue line with arms in the air, dropping to your knees and sliding 100ft while fist pumping could be construed as disrespectful to the guy you just scored on. If you feel differently then I would venture a guess that you never played goal.
If you arbitrarily say that celebration was disrespectful, then every form of celebration of a goal is "disrespectful". High fiving is the same thing only less of it. You could say he celebrated "too much", and noone will argue, but that doesn't make it disrespectful, it just makes him look like a bit of a basket case. Which he kind of is. In a good way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I am not arguing whether what he did was right or wrong....I don't care. Just that there is a double standard when it comes to what is acceptable in celebrations. If Quick had done that, **** would have hit the fan. We have come to expect, and accept, it from the goal scorer, as a goalie I find them all disrespectful.
Goalies do celebrate too, I've seen it after making a save to win the game in the shootout. Racing out and sliding on one knee fist pumping and such. I can't remember specific goalies in specific games to pull up a video, but I've definitely seen it numerous times.

I would say it's what you celebrate that makes a typical celebration disrespectful. For example, celebrating goals when you're blowing out the other team, or celebrating an empty net goal. Or a fight win.


Last edited by stratedge: 01-25-2013 at 11:43 PM. Reason: added latter parts
stratedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:03 AM
  #684
DyerMaker66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Does it also make you mad that guys like Ryan Rishaug and Thereon Fleury said celly on twitter as well?

Does it make you made that NHL players say it all the time?
I avoid the first situation by not having a twitter. It's a tad different when you have to stay below "X" number of characters, too.

DyerMaker66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:09 AM
  #685
DyerMaker66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
They didn't review the call on the ice. The refs had a conference and decided that the correct call was no goal, that is completely above board.
For what reason did they feel the correct call was no goal, though? If it was interference in the refs' eyes, there should've been a penalty.

DyerMaker66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:33 AM
  #686
Thallis
We suck again!
 
Thallis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Behind Blue Eyes
Country: United States
Posts: 3,514
vCash: 499
Send a message via MSN to Thallis
Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
For what reason did they feel the correct call was no goal, though? If it was interference in the refs' eyes, there should've been a penalty.
Not necessarily. Referees can call a no goal but no penalty if they feel the goalie didn't have a fair chance to play the puck, but it might not be deserving of a penalty.

Thallis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #687
fly4apuckguy
Mr. Old School
 
fly4apuckguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,199
vCash: 500
It does not bother me that people either love the celebration or hate it. As a stand-alone event, I think it was kind of cool, and even funny. But I understand the dislike for it, as a former player.

What bothers me is the name-calling by people who loved it at the people who don't.

Those of us who did not love it (I didn't hate it, but would not want to see it again), are probably more in the minds of 90% of the players in the NHL than the guys who love it.

Most players will tell you it was too much, like what I am saying. Too much because it crosses a line from being an outburst of happiness and emotion, to becoming "the show". This has been proven by this thread, and the fact that every sports show was talking about it yesterday and even last night.

Think about it, Yakupov effectively took the focus off the team and the win, and put it directly on his own shoulders by celebrating like that. NO ONE can deny that.

You don't do that in hockey. Most hockey players live by a certain code, and that is team first. Whenever you see a post-game interview with a guy who has just gotten 5 points in a 6-4 win, what do they say? "It was a good win, and I was just happy to help the team".

They don't jump around the room and scream "I did it! I did it!"

It is a maturity thing, so I totally give young Yak a pass.

But rest assured, the vets in the league and even on his own team will not want to see that every night.

fly4apuckguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 11:59 AM
  #688
SephF
Visually Better
 
SephF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugginThePost View Post
I could be wrong here, but skating to the blue line with arms in the air, dropping to your knees and sliding 100ft while fist pumping could be construed as disrespectful to the guy you just scored on. If you feel differently then I would venture a guess that you never played goal.

I am not arguing whether what he did was right or wrong....I don't care. Just that there is a double standard when it comes to what is acceptable in celebrations. If Quick had done that, **** would have hit the fan. We have come to expect, and accept, it from the goal scorer, as a goalie I find them all disrespectful.

To which some will respond with...."then stop the puck!" To which I would add, they do about .920% of the time. Not once taunting the shooter. No jumping up and down, no slides, no pounding the glass....nothing. Give the ref the puck....get ready to stop the next one.

Now that would make for a pretty boring game......so I'm not behind it 100%. But don't say celebrating the way he did, or any one for that matter, doesn't disrespect the goalie.
Well considering a goalie makes 20-30 saves a game and players are lucky to score a single goal every 2 games I'd say you're comparing apples to oranges.

SephF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 12:32 PM
  #689
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 9,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Nolan had every opportunity to skate the other way. He was not pulled into a fight and he chose to fight Smid entirely on his own. To me that isn't a instigator penalty.

^^^^ the funniest (and most wrong) post in this thread.

yeah Nolan, avoid any confrontation with any potential tough guy* that skates toward you in a menancing manner...

*does not mean to infer that Smid even is a tough guy

Really, just "skate the other way"...?

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #690
alcoraces
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 966
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
For what reason did they feel the correct call was no goal, though? If it was interference in the refs' eyes, there should've been a penalty.
Table 18 of the NHL Rules is a good reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26557


But I still think they booted that one. Not sure who decided it was not a goal but I have a feeling the NHLOA had a chat with those 4 officials.

alcoraces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #691
DyerMaker66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoraces View Post
Table 18 of the NHL Rules is a good reference:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26557


But I still think they booted that one. Not sure who decided it was not a goal but I have a feeling the NHLOA had a chat with those 4 officials.
None of those apply, unless you think he skated into the goalie of his own free will or accidentally(which he didn't): He was forced into the goaltender by a defender and attempted to avoid and dislodge himself from said keeper. He clearly was making an attempt to dislodge himself from the goalie as well.

DyerMaker66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.