I do get what you're saying and sadly it's the only thing DRW forumites can agree on.
I felt so horrible for Cleary when he took that penalty...I was also in shock.. I thought "what in the hell are you doing??". He got 2 minutes for humping at a very stupid time of the game. Dan was *****ing at the reff and I could feel his frustration. Bertuzzi comes back just flying, almost scores a hat trick, and yet Cleary's body won't do what he wants it to. Sounds petty but he was jealous and frustrated. I see him trying but it's not happening right now. If he should be on the 4th line Sunday, that's how we have to roll.
Cleary may not be around in the future but we must have some respect for his time served. He's been legendary. He played professional hockey for 19 years and the body is failing some.
Cleary may not be around in the future but we must have some respect for his time served. He's been legendary. He played professional hockey for 19 years and the body is failing some.
Cleary was a great addition post-lockout to this team. He had a chip on his shoulder to prove he could be valuable and he worked tirelessly to become valuable.
But, those valuable days appear over (and appeared over for quite some time now.)
He's lost all of his speed, and I don't care how hard you work, if you can't skate you're pretty much out of luck.
So he can't skate, he can't possess the puck anymore, he has trouble getting passes through, and he's having trouble even catching passes now. It's tough to watch.
How many times have we seen this: Cleary carries the puck into the offensive zone along the right boards, realizes he can't skate past the defender anymore, attempts to stop and wait for the center or left wing, gets pushed off the puck.
Yeah ... respect. But he needs to be old yellered.
Lines sunday "should" be ...
Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Filpula Datsyuk Bertuzzi
Adbelkader Helm Tootoo
Miller Emmerton Cleary ...
When Sammys healthy and Nyquist/Tatar waiting in the wings ... you gota think we move Miller or Cleary for a dman or something to free up some forward spots.
Yeah ... respect. But he needs to be old yellered.
Lines sunday "should" be ...
Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Filpula Datsyuk Bertuzzi
Adbelkader Helm Tootoo
Miller Emmerton Cleary ...
When Sammys healthy and Nyquist/Tatar waiting in the wings ... you gota think we move Miller or Cleary for a dman or something to free up some forward spots.
Ken Holland will "Old Yeller" Cleary by giving him a two year contract extension.
I can't imagine Cleary being moved, both for "long faithful service", which we all know Holland has a weak spot for, not to mention that I don't think any other team is interested.
I was hoping he'd have a bit of a bounce-back year this year with better health
but he's clearly done
at this point he's just taking up a roster spot that could be better used by Nyquist or Tatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc86
When Sammys healthy and Nyquist/Tatar waiting in the wings ... you gota think we move Miller or Cleary for a dman or something to free up some forward spots.
So far this season, it's been plainly obvious that Mursak is the odd man out. However, you have to think he's going to get some games in soon if they plan on moving him.
Given the fact that Helm i so injury prone, they can't afford to move Emmerton- especially given that he's been proving that he deserves to stay.
So we're looking at Eaves or Miller from the "expected going into the season" guys, and Cleary is rapidly playing himself into the group of "might be moved" guys as well.
Eaves is signed for next year, and if he proves he can stay healthy and play well, he's not going. Miller and Cleary are UFA; Miller has been playing decently at ES and on the PP. Cleary has been pretty much the team's worst forward. Only one of those two, at maximum, will get an extension; I've posted previously about how their spots could easily go to Nyquist+Tatar and the Wings could assemble three scoring lines and use the Abby/Helm/Tootoo 4th line I've been begging for since JULY - we saw it (and Miller/Helm/Tootoo; any questions?) against Minnesota.
Filppula and Brunner are the other UFA forwards the Wings have. Brunner is almost a guaranteed extension if he performs well (which appears to be the case so far); the only question is how much he'll cost. Filppula there will be every effort, but the Wings may be forced into trading him.
What could be possible is the following scenario:
(WARNING: LONG RAMBLING POST FOLLOWING)
Kyle Quincey has a track record as a 25-30 point defenseman. Ian White is a 30-35 point defenseman. Carlo Colaiacovo is a 30-point defenseman.
Lashoff has been playing fairly well (not great, but he works well with Kronwall). Huskins looks good and brings defensive elements that we need. These are guys who have been solid contributors who weren't part of the D-corps to start the year. This means two guys are out once everyone comes back. Assuming Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Lashoff, Huskins stay on the defense.
What if Flip (assuming contract problems) and one of the above defensemen (likely Quincey/Colaiacovo, possibly) and possibly pick/prospect were traded to get an upgrade on defense who is solid in both ends. Following that, Cleary/Miller (or both) plus another are traded with another one (surprise, it's the other one of Quincey/Colaiacovo, or possibly Kindl!), perhaps with a pick/prospect, to add a SIGNED (or RFA) top-six forward.
That could position the Wings for the following lineup:
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-??
Kindl/Huskins/Colaiacovo/Quincey-White
Maybe something like this:
First, a rumor turned message board desire:
to
D Jay Bouwmeester
to
F Valtteri Filppula
D Kyle Quincey
to
F Jussi Jokinen or F Bryan Little
to
F Dan Cleary
F Drew Miller
F Teemu Pulkkinen
D Carlo Colaiacovo
That sets the Wings up with this lineup:
Nyquist-Dats-Bertuzzi
Franzen-Z-Brunner
Eaves-Little/Jokinen-Samuelsson
Abby-Helm-Tootoo
Emmerton
Mursak
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Bouwmeester (plenty of speed here)
Kindl/Huskins-White
This leaves the Wings with only four UFAs on the roster; Brunner, White, Howard, and Huskins. Defense is no longer a huge concern with the addition of Bouwmeester. Huskins would be easy to bring back or replace, and despite his much higher talent level the same can be said of White. Brunner (as stated before) is highly likely to return based on his experience and performance so far. Look for Holland to extend him soon to avoid a costly experience that might interfere with Flip and Howard. And all of that leaves Howard as the only potential troublemaker in the group. And the chances of a) Jimmy being trouble; or b) Holland giving him trouble the way he has with Hudler, Hossa, etc.; those are unlikely for a former Wings goalie re-signing the only starting netminder he's ever drafted. Actually, the second one is possible depending on how far along Mrazek is or whether the braintrut thinks Gustavsson is "starter material". But it's unlikely.
Yeah, I kind of agree. If I'm Ken Holland three people cannot be on this team come next year. I don't care if I have to waive, trade, or buy them out; Cleary, Emmerton, and Quincey need to go.
I respect what Cleary has done for the team in the past. He has a lot of memorable very strong playoff performances. However too many wings from the glory days do overstay their welcome. Maltby, Drapper, Holmstrom all played past any form of recognizable effectiveness.
I guess you have to give points to the Wings though. Free agents know that signing for the wings is different then other places. Very rarely do you see a player traded without much reason, they almost always resign their players, they let a lot of vets play way past their prime. Its almost like they treat their players like family.
I do think its time for Cleary to hang it up. His body is obviously no longer suited for the pace of today's game. The wings need everything they can get this season and they have players ready to come up that Cleary is taking up a spot and preventing.
Cleary has had a lot of trouble over the past couple of years with ripped groin muscles, and trying to play through it. Maybe he's at a point where you just can't patch it up any longer.
Not sure about the knees, but yeah, he has heart and is a true warrior, but maybe his body just can't do it any longer. He played a very physically grueling style of game, and he probably wasn't built for it. He could still be useful as a PK/shutdown type of guy, primarily a defensive forward as opposed to trying to use him offensively.
Don't forget that Sammy is still in waiting in the wings too. There's a bit of a logjam right now.
Cleary has had a lot of trouble over the past couple of years with ripped groin muscles, and trying to play through it. Maybe he's at a point where you just can't patch it up any longer.
Not sure about the knees, but yeah, he has heart and is a true warrior, but maybe his body just can't do it any longer. He played a very physically grueling style of game, and he probably wasn't built for it. He could still be useful as a PK/shutdown type of guy, primarily a defensive forward as opposed to trying to use him offensively.
Don't forget that Sammy is still in waiting in the wings too. There's a bit of a logjam right now.
Ideally for next season the best thing to do would be to buyout one of Samuelsson or Bertuzzi (probably Samuelsson since he costs more). Cleary can't be re-signed, he's been an amazing story since getting signed here but his days of usefulness are long gone. The logjam needs to be released and that will probably have to be at the expense of good plugs like Miller and busts like Emmerton.
At this point Cleary is pretty much Brent Gilchrist without the excruciating playoff run to make us appreciate him.
If we are clearly not making the playoffs or not a threat at the deadline we could probably trade him for a 3rd to a young countender needing "playoff experience".
Trade Cleary, or not resign him after this season; buyout Samuelsson and CC. That would give us a total of about 24-25 million in cap space. Resign Howard for 4.5, Flip for 4, Smith for 1.5, and Brunner for 1.5 and you are looking at potentially 13 million to remake the roster a little. Sign Semin for 6 with a promise to play for Datsyuk and sign Whitney for 4.5 and our roster becomes a lot more threatening.
Looking at capgeek, I am amazed we are paying Colaioccovo, Ericsson, and Quincey a combined ~9.7 million. Add in Kindl and White and we paying 13-14 million for 5 defenseman who most other NHL teams would either demote to the minors, use as healthy scratches, or play on their last pair.
Last edited by Schroedingers Cat: 01-26-2013 at 01:11 PM.
At this point Cleary is pretty much Brent Gilchrist without the excruciating playoff run to make us appreciate him.
If we are clearly not making the playoffs or not a threat at the deadline we could probably trade him for a 3rd to a young countender needing "playoff experience".
Really can't see any other team even remotely interested in cleary and if he was it would be for a conditional 7th in 2014 or 2015. Wings can do pretty good in the 7th though
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat
Trade Cleary, or not resign him after this season; buyout Samuelsson and CC. That would give us a total of about 24-25 million in cap space. Resign Howard for 4.5, Flip for 4, Smith for 1.5, and Brunner for 1.5 and you are looking at potentially 13 million to remake the roster a little.
Looking at capgeek, I am amazed we are paying Colaioccovo, Ericsson, and Quincey a combined ~9.7 million. Add in Kindl and White and we paying 13-14 million for 5 defenseman who most other NHL teams would either demote to the minors, use as healthy scratches, or play on their last pair.
The whole 3 way Quincey trade last summer was a real head scratcher. Have no idea why the wings thought he was an answer. The only thing I can think of is someone in the front office was butt hurt that the wings waived him back in the day and he became a regular on other teams.
Really can't see any other team even remotely interested in cleary and if he was it would be for a conditional 7th in 2014 or 2015. Wings can do pretty good in the 7th though
The whole 3 way Quincey trade last summer was a real head scratcher. Have no idea why the wings thought he was an answer. The only thing I can think of is someone in the front office was butt hurt that the wings waived him back in the day and he became a regular on other teams.
Consider this: We are paying him almost 4 million a year.
/slowclap
