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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:50 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by Chaz McNulty View Post
I think you are completely wrong. Gillis is keeping Schneider because he is one of the best goalies in the league right now. It would not surprise me if he's a Vezina trophy finalist this year. Ray Ferraro has commented that he believes that Schneider may be a generational talent.
.




First using Ferraro to support an opinion is laughable since he's not the most knowledgable dude.

Secondly not only is "Generational talent" thrown into discussions way too easily, Schneider has not even proven that he is a NHL starter yet. Lou is not even a generational talent and he's had a good career so far and if Corey gets to achieve as much he'll be very fortunate. So before talking about "generational" the guy got to learn how to walk first.

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01-26-2013, 02:53 AM
  #752
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My current expectations from

Edmonton: Hemsky/Gagner + MPS/1st
Washington: Johansson + Neuvirth + 2nd/similar toss in
Philadelphia: Voracek + 2nd/similar toss-in

Who are all my personal frontrunners for Luongo.

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01-26-2013, 02:55 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
I think Canucks fans will be disappointed in the actual return for Luongo.
Thank you for your FANTASTIC contribution to this thread. I have not heard this EXACT quote in these threads before.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:03 AM
  #754
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Lindback
3.67 GAA
0.900 SV%

Keep an eye on the Lightning.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:09 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Lindback
3.67 GAA
0.900 SV%

Keep an eye on the Lightning.
I always thought the lightning were a perfect match for luongo.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:10 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Lindback
3.67 GAA
0.900 SV%

Keep an eye on the Lightning.
True, but I think it's unlikely that they trade for Luongo so soon after acquiring Lindback. Other teams will likely be less willing to give leeway to their starters. But before acquiring Lindback, they by far made the most sense to me.

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01-26-2013, 03:18 AM
  #757
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Brouwer
Neuvirth
Wilson

For

Luongo
Not bad but I would prefer one of their better prospects. Brouwer is lacking a fit on our roster with the emergence of Kassian and potential chemistry of Mayray and Schroeder. And if Ballard continues to play like he has, then we have no need of replacing him.

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01-26-2013, 03:25 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Not bad but I would prefer one of their better prospects. Brouwer is lacking a fit on our roster with the emergence of Kassian and potential chemistry of Mayray and Schroeder. And if Ballard continues to play like he has, then we have no need of replacing him.
Brouwer would be great for playoffs and can move up and down lineup, especially with injuries. Wilson is one of their best prospects. He has size and I think would be a definite target by Gillis, more so than Forsberg. This would be a very good return.

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01-26-2013, 03:38 AM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Brouwer
Neuvirth
Wilson

For

Luongo
Done for me. Brouwer would be a nice fit in the Top 6 and Wilson gives us another up and coming power forward.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:47 AM
  #760
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Done for me. Brouwer would be a nice fit in the Top 6 and Wilson gives us another up and coming power forward.
I wouldn't want Brouwer.
He's not a top 6 forward, and we have plenty of 3rd liner wingers already.

Also, his new contract kicks in next season, and with the cap going down I can't see the Canucks wanting to spend $3.67 mil on a guy like Brouwer. (when we could re-sign Higgins for less than $2.5 mil, or give Jensen as shot at making the team)

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01-26-2013, 03:49 AM
  #761
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I don't like Wilson or Brouwer, tbh.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:56 AM
  #762
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I'm not sure we can really afford Brouwer, not unless you want to move both Booth and Ballard next season.

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01-26-2013, 04:22 AM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giddy up View Post
I always thought the lightning were a perfect match for luongo.
It is where old Canucks go to die after all, Ohlund and Salo specifically.

I dont know what the Canucks would ask for from Tampa. Maybe Teddy Purcell, a prospect and a pick. IMO we still need a proven 3rd line center but you got to do what you got to do.

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01-26-2013, 04:37 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
This would blow my mind. I would be shocked.
Any team but Philly doing this would surprise me, but Philly pulls stuff like this where people think they are crazy all the time, last year trading carter and Richards out of the blue was shocking just like this would be. Call me crazy, but I think Philly is.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:09 AM
  #765
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Brouwer would be great for playoffs and can move up and down lineup, especially with injuries. Wilson is one of their best prospects. He has size and I think would be a definite target by Gillis, more so than Forsberg. This would be a very good return.
There is no room in the line, period. Once injuries have healed, our lineup is as followed:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Higgins/Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Burrows/Higgins
Volpatti - Malhotra - Lapierre
Weise

Unless Mayray regresses back into last year's form, he will be a stable in the lineup. Brouwer has nowhere to slot in. Wilson is decent but an inferior Kassian from present indications. We need a skill oriented winger, preferably a playmaker for Kesler. Forsberg would be that He is currently projected to have two way capabilities already, which is practically our hallmark. Gillis would love him.

In short, if we are doing futures. I want to look at potential Sedin replacements in a one and done deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
I'm not sure we can really afford Brouwer, not unless you want to move both Booth and Ballard next season.
Ouch.

I just checked Brouwer's contract. $3.6M starting next year through to 2016. That is steep. Indeed we would have to buyout Booth, who I am not convinced will be here past this season anyway. Brouwer is merely not an enticing alternative for me. Not at his price.


Last edited by Bourne Endeavor: 01-26-2013 at 05:16 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 06:06 AM
  #766
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I am a big fan of Higgins but Troy Brouwer is an upgrade over him in every conceivable way except maybe in the abs and the smile.

You would absolutely make room for a guy like Brouwer, and he is definitely worth $3.6m a season.

Also your lineup is missing Hansen.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Higgins
Lapierre-Malholtra-Hansen

That's just silly.

Washington does look like the closest team for me. Their core isn't old by any means, but their "window" with the current core is coming to a close. They've chased the coach already, and haven't made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs yet since Ovechkin has been on the team. If they underachieve again, the next step would be to shake things up because GMGM's job would be on the line.


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Old
01-26-2013, 07:10 AM
  #767
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If Washington made a play for Luongo one name I would expect to see as part of the equation is D Orlov.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:11 AM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
First... a comment on why you think Toronto should/wants to trade for him.



I reply with why it doesn't make sense and is infact somewhat of a contradiction. Second... a bunch of talk of Vancouver positing.



In no way shape or form did you comment on your original point. Like I said, it's all well and good but don't comment and then ignore glaring contradictions. In fact you just reiterated a completely close minded approach to the topic. It borders on sounding condescending or just straight up no insight on what other teams are looking for.

I get it, your prerogative seems to dance around issues to avoid either admitting misdirection or some form of bias - that truthfully may be cultivated by the never ending frustration of this very topic that we all have.

Either way I have a solution for our discussion since I'm tired of trying to make simple points get across and having Chapter 2 come back as the next response.



On the "contradiction": You implied that Gillis is wanting the same thing TOR wants, what any team wants really: To procure/retain young talent while dealing older talent to further that directive. The contradiction you propose is to say that Gillis is asking TOR to go against the common directive and pay for older talent with young talent, something he would not do. You are speaking in ideals here, but let me ask you this: what about TOR's situation is ideal (as alluded to in my post)? In a perfect world, a team like TOR doesn't need to fix their goaltending, they would have a plethora of options at hand, but we know that is not the case. So if these teams are in vastly different positions, why would their needs be the same? They wouldn't be. TOR is looking for winning talent to make the playoffs (again cited in my post), in any form. It's available in Luongo.



I relayed as much when saying that if TOR doesn't _want_ to make the playoffs, then you don't deal for a player like Luongo. It should end there. That at that point, it is better to dismiss their interest altogether. Condescending in your view is irrelevant. If you don't want them to make the playoffs, then you don't want Luongo, which calls into question your purpose in this thread. To be more clear, let me try re-iterating my chapter 1 to you in light of your "contradiction":



If a team is not winning, they look for established winners. These players are expensive because of their prior record (as winners). They have won, and will likely continue to win, so they cost good assets. Bottom line. In that vain, the team wanting to win has to trade something to get said players, as they are seldom available. Usually, this comes in the form of good young talent. Why? Because they don't have equivalent older winning talent they can deal. If they did, they wouldn't be losing... So the winning team with a surplus of established winning talent _has_ to take on good young talent as compensation for their experienced winner.



So the "loser" team is left with a conundrum: Win more now by deal younger talent or possibly forgo winning later by dealing said younger talent now. Again, they don't have established winning talent (older) to deal. Few teams do. So they have to compensate with those assets. However, the "winner" team can afford to take on _either_ established winning talent OR good young talent in compensation. Therefore, it's not a contradiction for Gillis. There is not established winning talent on TOR that they can afford to deal, so Gillis has to take on good young talent (usually more pieces because they are unproven) as opposed to established winning talent. Meanwhile, another team, like perhaps PHI, _can_ afford to deal more established winning players.



Long story even longer, if you don't want TOR to win enough to make the playoffs, you don't want Luongo. And if you do want Luongo, then you recognize that you have to part with good young talent to compensate. That is the function of trades, not a contradiction of Gillis's philosophy. You could replace Gillis as the GM, have the same two teams talking to each other, and the issue would still be the same: TOR not sending enough young talent back/VAN GM thinking he's not getting enough talent back. This too was implied in post: Want Playoffs? Pay up for Lu. Don't want playoffs? Then you don't have a need for Lu and you serve little purpose in this thread.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:21 AM
  #769
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There aren't going to be many teams, if any, that will pay that price for Luongo, and Gillis isn't an idiot, he has to know that. This is all part of the negotiations right now and he's set his bar. He knows he won't finish there.

The only team that I can think of that *may* have interest in paying that kind of a price, would be the Islanders. It would involve the Canucks taking on DiPeitro's contract and buying him out using one of their amnesty buyouts. The Isles are also a team that is in good position to give up that kind of value in assets, especially if the Canucks are eating money as part of their deal (DiPeitro's buyout/Luongo's contract). They have a disgruntled top prospect who wants out, and several veteran options with money on their contracts making it easier to move out one (Okposo, Nielsen, Moulson, Visnovsky, Streit).

Might make sense for them to get a legitimate and established starter at this stage, given that they must be done with rebuilding by now, and they have several young players ready to contribute at the next level.

That's probably the only team I can think of that would have interest in Luongo at that price (granted it would come with a big salary buyout and/or eating salary). For the Isles there would be financial benefits as well, which a franchise like that will give value to buying out huge contracts, and taking on a contract where a lot of the money has been paid off... they're also a team that will never play at the salary cap anyways, so to have dead cap space, while paying less in $$ for it, would be a benefit for that team long-term.

Most other teams don't have the prospect depth and being at that stage where they're looking to get to the playoffs now consistently with a good young team on the rise... most teams also won't have the financial motivation to make a deal like this.

And who knows, maybe Luongo will waive his NTC to go to the Island - where he was first drafted and started his career. It's not far from Florida, and I'm sure his wife won't hate the Hamptons.


The package Gillis is seeking is very open to degrees of interpretation. Is Bozak a good roster player? Not by the advanced stats he isn't. Is Kadri a "good" prospect? Sure if "good" implies toiling in the minors for four years hammering out a suspect defensive game. By contrast, TOR's 1st is much more valuable than a lot of the other teams. So there are degrees of separation here between what the "ask" is and the interpretations of that "ask".



I definitely see PHI in the mix at the end of the year (offseason), by having surplus Cs and Laughton just cracking their roster. They can easily give up a late 1st and Laughton if they would so choose. Likewise, FLA has Shore and their likely late 1st. Etc... After that, it's just a matter of coming to an agreement on a mid-level roster piece. Like I said, if you apply your own high definition to "good" prospect and "good" roster player, then you see it as very difficult, and you should. But if we loosen up the terms to start including Bozak/Kadri or Shore (compared to Bjugstad) or Laughton (compared to Schenn/Couturier) then more options become available/palatable.



Personally, I view Bjugstad as a very good prospect. By comparison, guys like Shore and Howden are "good". Perhaps that's clearer?

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #770
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I am a big fan of Higgins but Troy Brouwer is an upgrade over him in every conceivable way except maybe in the abs and the smile.

You would absolutely make room for a guy like Brouwer, and he is definitely worth $3.6m a season.

Also your lineup is missing Hansen.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Kesler-Burrows
Raymond-Schroeder-Higgins
Lapierre-Malholtra-Hansen

That's just silly.
Seriously? Why do we always forget him?

Anywho, you do not when he will likely play on the bottom pairing. Higgins comes much cheaper than Brouwer. I also wonder how you consider that roster "silly" when it got us to the cup finals. Acquiring Brouwer isn't necessarily a bad deal but not who I would like to swap Luongo for.

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01-26-2013, 07:41 AM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
My current expectations from

Edmonton: Hemsky/Gagner + MPS/1st
Washington: Johansson + Neuvirth + 2nd/similar toss in
Philadelphia: Voracek + 2nd/similar toss-in

Who are all my personal frontrunners for Luongo.
Those are pretty realistic. I could see WSH doing that. Maybe Laich as an option too

I doubt Philly can go for a goalie with the Bryz contract and I doubt they deal within the division. Offers are good though and WSH makes sense

Holtby to Leafs after for a good haul

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01-26-2013, 07:52 AM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
There is no room in the line, period. Once injuries have healed, our lineup is as followed:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Higgins/Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Burrows/Higgins
Volpatti - Malhotra - Lapierre
Weise

Unless Mayray regresses back into last year's form, he will be a stable in the lineup. Brouwer has nowhere to slot in. Wilson is decent but an inferior Kassian from present indications. We need a skill oriented winger, preferably a playmaker for Kesler. Forsberg would be that He is currently projected to have two way capabilities already, which is practically our hallmark. Gillis would love him.

In short, if we are doing futures. I want to look at potential Sedin replacements in a one and done deal.



Ouch.

I just checked Brouwer's contract. $3.6M starting next year through to 2016. That is steep. Indeed we would have to buyout Booth, who I am not convinced will be here past this season anyway. Brouwer is merely not an enticing alternative for me. Not at his price.
You missed Hansen. Honestly I think if our young guys continue to perform like they have thus far Burrows would fit the bill of a play making winger on the second line. Playing on the Sedin line he's been more forced into a goal scoring role but if you put him with the puck hogs Booth and Kesler he'll most likely start making plays more often, one only needs to see the types of passes he makes all the time to see he has it in him, not to mention he drives possession due to being very good at winning battles for loose pucks which would mean the 2nd line just wouldn't be Kesler/Booth/Raymond skate the puck in shoot it then lose the unsueing puck battle and have the puck head off the other way. Of course that requires Kassian and Schroeder to continue to play well because that just fills all the holes in our line up.

This makes me think we should either trade Luongo for futures straight up if the young guys continue to play well (Tanev/Kassian/Schroeder) and Raymond and Ballard continue to have rebound seasons it would be unwise to add another player and risk breaking up chemistry, so if Gillis is thinking the same way I am after watching these players thrive I don't see Luongo being dealt till the trade deadline at the earliest (too make sure this isn't flash in the pan early season stuff) and if those five keep it up I expect Luongo gets moved for futures.


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01-26-2013, 09:08 AM
  #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
My current expectations from

Edmonton: Hemsky/Gagner + MPS/1st
Washington: Johansson + Neuvirth + 2nd/similar toss in
Philadelphia: Voracek + 2nd/similar toss-in

Who are all my personal frontrunners for Luongo.
I don't know the return but I agree with the teams you've listed here. I can really see WASH stepping up and getting Luongo. There is a lot wrong with their team and Goaltending is at the top of the list. They have a lot of money invested in their team and are one of the teams expected to win. They won't continue to slide and take it with a smile.. Sooner or later they will make some moves.

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01-26-2013, 09:24 AM
  #774
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So judging by these posts... Vancouver fans would want Kadri +1st from Toronto?

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01-26-2013, 09:33 AM
  #775
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So judging by these posts... Vancouver fans would want Kadri +1st from Toronto?
I don't think many Vancouver fans are interested in Kadri regardless of his start. I think it's about time we all realize that the players Vancouver would be interested in are untouchable from T.O.'s standpoint. Toronto and Vancouver are just not going to make a Luongo trade happen. They aren't good trading partners. Mike Gillis isn't Darryl Sutter and isn't going to trade a top player in the game for quantity. He wants quality back.

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