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Ovechkin

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Old
01-25-2013, 05:59 PM
  #76
Lucbourdon
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Bieksa, kassian , JS + 1st for AO?

Value?

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #77
Pi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Top 5 in goals. Points take other players on your line knowing how to play hockey. Ovechkin didn't have that for most of the year.

But as long as we've established that they both suck I'm more than happy to keep our sucky player.
Nobody is saying Ovechkin sucks. Far from it.

In fact, you know you're a great player when people are disappointed after you scored 37 goals in a season.

He'll still be a near PPG player, he's too good not to be...but is that really worth 9.5M a year?

Ovechkin was given that 124M contract to put up 50 goals, 50 assists...and a 100+ points.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Bieksa, kassian , JS + 1st for AO?

Value?
Who is JS?

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:13 PM
  #79
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For almost ten mil a year you should expect regular 100+ point seasons and, in regards to Ovechkin, to regularly put up 50 to 70 goals.

He's not even a PPG player right now and people might be surprised if he even closes in on 45 goals.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:13 PM
  #80
Halpysback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Nobody is saying Ovechkin sucks. Far from it.

In fact, you know you're a great player when people are disappointed after you scored 37 goals in a season.

He'll still be a near PPG player, he's too good not to be...but is that really worth 9.5M a year?

Ovechkin was given that 124M contract to put up 50 goals, 50 assists...and a 100+ points.
I guess it depends on what you're looking for with the acquisition.

He still brings it in the playoffs no matter the system or linemates. For me that's the #1 thing.

His regular season game has taken a hit but he hasn't really been put in a position to succeed in the last 2 years.

If I'm acquiring him, I put him with a Laviolette type coach and two guys that can drive the net, hit, create space and have top 6 skills to take advantage of the broken plays he generates or finish off tic tac toe plays. He was great with Clark, Kozlov, Knuble on the wing. Not stars but guys who know how to defer to someone else on a line and still be effective. Weiss, Bergeron, Krejci, Grabovski type at C. Kulemin, Setoguchi, Lupul, JVR, Pacioretty type at W.

In that situation I think he's a 40-50 goal, 85-100 point player who can probably go back to dominant in the playoffs other than simply very good.

Problem is we're misusing him horribly and McPhee feels he can just snap out of it so he loads the rest of the roster up with guys that have no synergy and aren't particularly good.

My question is - people keep pointing to 50g 100p. If he's a 37g-82p player in the regular season (which he is easily with competent linemates, last year's assist drop was largely due to his line being unable to finish anything) but a Conn Smythe level player in the playoffs, isn't that the same or even better?

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:14 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Who is JS?
Jordan Schroeder, canucks designated throw-in.

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Old
01-25-2013, 06:15 PM
  #82
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Is Ovechkin on the decline? or maybe that phat contract he got killed his drive? I don't think his value is as high as some of you want to believe.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:47 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I guess it depends on what you're looking for with the acquisition.

He still brings it in the playoffs no matter the system or linemates. For me that's the #1 thing.

My question is - people keep pointing to 50g 100p. If he's a 37g-82p player in the regular season (which he is easily with competent linemates, last year's assist drop was largely due to his line being unable to finish anything) but a Conn Smythe level player in the playoffs, isn't that the same or even better?
5g, 4a, 9 points in 14 games is Conn Smythe level?
I realize he played pretty well in the playoffs, but come on now; his PPG totals actually went down in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Trading Ovechkin without trying to legitimately build around him (not the half-assed crap McPhee and Leonsis have been pulling) would be the dumbest thing this franchise ever did. Yes, including Scott Stevens.
I think you're vastly overstating Ovechkin's importance to your franchise / to the success of your team. The buzz around Ovie has largely vanished. Few people go to Caps games anymore to see Ovechkin and Ovechkin alone. Especially considering that Ovechkin hasn't been dazzling anyone for quite some time now.

And while Ovie is a fantastic player/talent (that's why people are offering good packages of 3-4 top 6 forwards/top 4 defensemen for him), you're doing a serious disservice to the other players on the Capitals by acting like they'd be a lottery team for years if they trade Ovie. Backstrom is still one of the top 15-20 players in this league. Carlson and Alzner are fantastic #1 quality defensemen. Mojo and Orlov are keepers too. If you got a 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 package for Ovie that included 2 top 6 forwards and a top 4 defenseman, the depth on your team would increase massively, and I think you might be surprised about the wonders that would do for your team when it comes to the playoffs.

If you need an example, look no further than the team I root for: the Flyers. Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were key pieces of our team and we traded them away for 2 top 6 wingers and 2 prospects. Everyone said we'd be trolling the bottom of the league for awhile. Well, we weren't. We were having a very successful 2011-2012 season, and then our new captain (replacing Richards) and by far the most important / irreplaceable player on our team, Pronger, went down for the year (career?). Unlike the trades of Richards and Carter where we got valuable assets in return for no longer having the services of two of our best players, we got nothing for Pronger going down. We still made the playoffs and won a round.

I see nothing stopping a Capitals team from following a similar path if they decided to trade Ovechkin.

And I do think that they need to trade Ovie, just as the Flyers needed to trade Richards. Ovie is not an effective leader, his disinterest on the ice tells you everything you need to know about his ability to lead a team / wear the "C". You could just strip him of the C and humiliate him, but I can't see that ending well. An amicable split would be the best thing IMO. Ovechkin could go to a team with a strong coach who plays an up-tempo / offensive system and a team with strong veteran leadership, where Ovie wouldn't ever touch the "C", or perhaps even one of the two "A"s and he could simply get a clean start and focus on playing hockey instead of all the drama he currently deals w/ in Washington.

And as I said, I think Washington would come out ahead in all of this too.


Last edited by FlyingHigh28*: 01-26-2013 at 03:52 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 03:50 AM
  #84
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Id love for Ovechkin to be on the kings. Something with Richards going the other way.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:24 AM
  #85
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If Ovechkin went on the market, I'd expect a return a tier above what Nash got:

2 good, young NHL players ready for top 6 (or top 4) duties on most teams
1 Top tier prospect
A first rounder
+

I suspect the '+' would either be another 1st or top tier prospect.

Either way, Washington would get paid.


Last edited by Rangerboy030: 01-26-2013 at 04:32 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 04:33 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerboy030 View Post
If Ovechkin went on the market, I'd expect a return a tier above what Nash got:

2 good, young NHL players ready for top 6 (or top 4) duties on most teams
1 Top tier prospect
A first rounder
+

I suspect the '+' would either be another 1st or top tier prospect.

Either way, Washington would get paid.
Tyler Ennis
Drew Stafford
One of Buffalo's D prospects (Pysyk?)
+ 1st

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:37 AM
  #87
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I'm shocked at some of the offers here, OV playing like he is now for 9.5 is not a good deal at all. He just looks way to unmotivated to me.

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:59 AM
  #88
Mister Hockey
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Considering what the Caps would want, with Ovechkin's drop in production and his contract, I'm not even interested in trying to acquire him.
That sums it up well.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:00 AM
  #89
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Ya I'm not sure why anyone would want to take a risk on him right now. Watched him against the Habs this week, he played 'ok', but not even close to warrent a 9.5 million dollar contract for the next decade.

Falling production + huge long term contract = not much of a bargaining chip for Washington.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:18 AM
  #90
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I'd take him on Ottawa, but our offer wouldn't make sense for Washington.

That said, I'd offer Zibanejad, Ceci, 1st, Bishop.

Again, doesn't make sense for the Caps though, but Ottawa is in a position where our roster players are either garbage, or untouchable; very little in the middle-ground area.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:28 AM
  #91
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The Caps wouldn't accept a trade for what he's worth now and if he gets back to OV form again the Caps wouldn't trade him.

If anything will happen with him I think he'll need to continue his downward trend that he has at the moment for another 1-2 seasons after this shortened one. At that point he would be older and the prospect of trading him wouldn't be as harsh to his fans.

I think this trade is a no go from the get go.

*Edit*
Also he gets more expensive next year by another 1mil per year instead of cheaper as some other long term contracts are arranged. So this might scare away some of the less profitable teams as well.


Last edited by Losveratos: 01-26-2013 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Additional content
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Old
01-26-2013, 08:30 AM
  #92
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Teams are willing to give up a lot for a cap dump

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:58 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Tyler Ennis
Drew Stafford
One of Buffalo's D prospects (Pysyk?)
+ 1st
More like
Myers
Foligno
Armia
1st

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Old
01-26-2013, 09:24 AM
  #94
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His value is at an all time low, sad thing is it just goes down with each passing game.

His 9.5M cap hit is insane, but he sells tickets so he'll never be moved for that reason alone.

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Old
01-26-2013, 09:26 AM
  #95
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Caps fans need to realized that Alex Ovechkin is only a shadow of his former self now.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:32 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerboy030 View Post
If Ovechkin went on the market, I'd expect a return a tier above what Nash got:

2 good, young NHL players ready for top 6 (or top 4) duties on most teams
1 Top tier prospect
A first rounder
+

I suspect the '+' would either be another 1st or top tier prospect.

Either way, Washington would get paid.
I think this is a good barometer for an Ovie trade, with increased value based on what he does for a market. His play has kind of followed the path of Nash the past few years - excellent individual ability but doesn't seem to produce accordingly. Plus the cap hit vs production is ugly. Would be worthwhile for a team struggling to get fans in the building though. Maybe PHX would gamble the additional salary could turn into sell outs?

Hanzal, Yandle, Sameulsson, 1st?

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:35 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
Caps fans need to realized that Alex Ovechkin is only a shadow of his former self now.
They don't. He doesn't touch the puck anymore and he is one moody *****. He might be able to regain his touch at some point, but with the way he has played last year and now, his value ain't as high as people think. This guy needs a change of scenery.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:49 AM
  #98
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This is just for fun....

Would a deal of gaborik and Kreider for Ovie do it?


gaborik can produce goal productivity in the regular season like how Ovie does. Kreider is a nice young winger to build on.


Why would the Rangers do it?

gaborik has shown that he can be very productive in the season and struggle in the playoffs. As teams in the playoffs play more fundamentally sound defense, gaborik tends to disappear.

Ovie in the playoffs can do the opposite, he can elevate his play and actually carry a team in the playoffs.

We've seen that the Rangers can be streaky and go through a terrible playoff stretch where they can't buy a goal. The Rangers are built to win now.

With Lundqvist & Ovechkin being able to carry teams.

Nash & Richards being a solid supporting cast

Youngsters and Cally providing high energy.

I would think they would have to be favorites.


With how the team is constructed right now, I can see them going cold 4 out of 7 games and can't score more than 2 goals. Now, Ovechkin might not improve what gaborik can but looking at playoff history. I think trading Kreider to greatly improving playoff chances the next 2 years is worth it.


Now the real question. Would Washington do that trade or would they rather go younger and get 3 solid young players?

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:49 AM
  #99
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I think there has to been some very specific reason he lost all of that explosiveness so fast. From what I see he needs to make some changes, just going back to a run and gun system isn't going to do it for him. Caps management needs to figure out what's physically wrong with him.

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Old
01-26-2013, 10:52 AM
  #100
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Just my comment on the contract. Alex go paid the 9.5M for 2 reasons,

(1) to be a 50+ goal scorer. he's not doing that, he's not putting up assists to compensate he is clearly not as explosive as he was, however factors like system and players have a major impact on stats. Alex is still great, he just may not be as great as he was (i.e. a 90 point player not a 100+ point player.
(2) Alex is a rockstar, he puts ***** in the seats. This is an even bigger factor in the "ridiculous" contract. A team like mine (Blue Jackets) would give up alot to grab a guy like OV for this alone. A player like OV is the type of franchise player that brings in fans, UFAs, and National attention.

These two factors make the price for OV rediculous. Your probably looking at a Lindros type return to get him out of Washington at this point.

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