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Old
01-26-2013, 01:59 AM
  #726
EroCaps
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What happens to Kuzzy if Ovechkin flames out of DC? I doubt the new GM would replace one high maintenance Russian with another. Nice little ordeal they've got.

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01-26-2013, 02:00 AM
  #727
Icetime
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It's not like I want Ovechkin to be a cheater.

I would much much much rather him just be a spoiled brat or whatever else could be the reason for such a dramatic decrease in ability.

They guy was a monster on the ice. A monster.

What happened to him?

This blows.

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01-26-2013, 02:07 AM
  #728
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It's hard to see George drafting Russians early after seeing all ours flame out. That is, if he returns.

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01-26-2013, 02:10 AM
  #729
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Yeah we gotta avoid Russians. Our Canadians are doing so well! As are our Swedes for that matter

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01-26-2013, 02:12 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Icetime View Post
Anabolic Steroids can dramatically increase MUSCLE MASS and POWER.

HGH makes you heal faster.

This doesn't result in an increase in athletic performance how again?
They both increase mass and accelerate recovery.

Either way, HGH would always of been detected. So why did Ovechkin randomly stop using steroids? I haven't heard of a underground undetected steroid being reported to WADA.

I just don't understand what you guys think he would of been using and randomly stopped.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:16 AM
  #731
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Mojo was the biggest flop pick. Sot as butter perimeter forward....yawn. There's a mile high pile of guys like that..and they went out and got another.

You know who was a sleeper good was Kozlov...great alon the boards..wasn't fast or anything, but he always won those puck battles and got he puck to Ovy.

Man I wish Ovy would rewatch old tapes of himself and get back to whatever it was he was doing then...if it was a crank...get back on it.

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01-26-2013, 02:19 AM
  #732
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Reminds me of that old Russian joke about a circus guy performing an act where he falls 50 feet and lands on a railroad nail with his bare ass, does an encore, then when the fans ask for an encore again points out that landing on a railroad nail with your bare ass hurts like hell.

That's always been Ovechkin style, and it's not a style you can keep up when the rest of the team is built to sap enthusiasm. It's just not psychologically gonna happen. He still has it in the playoffs when he goes all out, even if it's futile. Last year he was put with crap on a throwaway line and played his heart out and hit everything that moved. In the regular season we don't need him to go all out. We just need a roster whose bottom 3 lines and bottom 2 pairings don't look like they were put together by a 3rd grader on blow.

Give him a deep team that has a real chance in the playoffs and he'd get a Conn Smythe.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:23 AM
  #733
Icetime
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
They both increase mass and accelerate recovery.

Either way, HGH would always of been detected. So why did Ovechkin randomly stop using steroids? I haven't heard of a underground undetected steroid being reported to WADA.

I just don't understand what you guys think he would of been using and randomly stopped.
He would stop using because

A) Most of that stuff is real real bad for you in the long term

B) His signature is on a 100 million dollar guaranteed contract

C) The Olympic games happened and he stopped for good reason and that was the end of it

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01-26-2013, 02:31 AM
  #734
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I don't buy the steroid argument. So he had some sort of undetectable drug which only he was taking but nobody else was? Why would he stop using it all of a sudden? Sometimes forwards enter the league at their peak and they decline afterwards. Honestly, it's not fair to Ovechkin to accuse him of cheating when he's never been found guilty of anything. I'm pretty sure it's libel.

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01-26-2013, 02:32 AM
  #735
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Lets be real here, the problem came because of over coaching. When Ovechkin only scored 2 in October to begin 08-09 season. Everyone said, too predictable, won't even score 50 ever again.

Nothing was talked about from Boudreau trying to tell Ovechkin how to play, he just let Ovechkin do his thing and figure it out. Then the next struggles came the new defensive system and Boudreau telling him how to play.

Either way, Ovechkin can't help it if the timing is completely off for the whole team. This team hasn't had a single good established attack, grinding around behind the net isn't an attack, its wasting energy chasing a puck around behind the net. An attack is shooting like ****ing crazy and getting to every rebound first. They play with 0 purpose, they shoot and the rebound goes one way and they go the opposite way. They don't have the slightest clue where the puck is going.

The problem is people call this not trying. Its not, not trying. Its not having a slightest clue as to whats going on and where they need to be.

To me the obvious thing wrong with Ovechkin and this team is the static play, the best play they had was Ovechkin-Backstrom-Johansson mid third period against the Canadiens. They weren't out working the Canadiens, they were in sync, they just weren't shooting enough. Backstrom can ****ing shoot, he didn't score 33 tap in goals, tell him to ****ing shoot, he played right side of the ice near the net on the PP in the KHL, maybe they should put him there, he can read plays and get to rebounds better than any of these other players apparently.

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Old
01-26-2013, 02:53 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
I don't buy the steroid argument. So he had some sort of undetectable drug which only he was taking but nobody else was? Why would he stop using it all of a sudden? Sometimes forwards enter the league at their peak and they decline afterwards. Honestly, it's not fair to Ovechkin to accuse him of cheating when he's never been found guilty of anything. I'm pretty sure it's libel.
I'm pretty sure you're not a lawyer.

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01-26-2013, 03:06 AM
  #737
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
What happens to Kuzzy if Ovechkin flames out of DC? I doubt the new GM would replace one high maintenance Russian with another. Nice little ordeal they've got.

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Old
01-26-2013, 03:47 AM
  #738
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Please leave the science to people with a basic grasp of the English language.

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Old
01-26-2013, 04:54 AM
  #739
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It's so sad to see my favorite player of all time fall like this. Don't believe in the steroid argument. I just think he stopped having fun playing hockey...

Still if he had Crosbys work ethic he would still be great. Kovalchuk is still great and he's almost 30, but he's a professional, unlike OV. I hope he OV cares enough to learn.

Sad drunken night

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01-26-2013, 05:07 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Lets be real here, the problem came because of over coaching. When Ovechkin only scored 2 in October to begin 08-09 season. Everyone said, too predictable, won't even score 50 ever again.

Nothing was talked about from Boudreau trying to tell Ovechkin how to play, he just let Ovechkin do his thing and figure it out. Then the next struggles came the new defensive system and Boudreau telling him how to play.

Either way, Ovechkin can't help it if the timing is completely off for the whole team. This team hasn't had a single good established attack, grinding around behind the net isn't an attack, its wasting energy chasing a puck around behind the net. An attack is shooting like ****ing crazy and getting to every rebound first. They play with 0 purpose, they shoot and the rebound goes one way and they go the opposite way. They don't have the slightest clue where the puck is going.

The problem is people call this not trying. Its not, not trying. Its not having a slightest clue as to whats going on and where they need to be.

To me the obvious thing wrong with Ovechkin and this team is the static play, the best play they had was Ovechkin-Backstrom-Johansson mid third period against the Canadiens. They weren't out working the Canadiens, they were in sync, they just weren't shooting enough. Backstrom can ****ing shoot, he didn't score 33 tap in goals, tell him to ****ing shoot, he played right side of the ice near the net on the PP in the KHL, maybe they should put him there, he can read plays and get to rebounds better than any of these other players apparently.
We are talking about some of the best hockey players in the world. And you are going to say the system is holding them back "Its not having a slightest clue as to whats going on and where they need to be." No matter what system it is ,its still a game they have played there whole life. They should still be able to pass and shoot.



This is the guy we started off with.



This was the start of the decline.



And this is the guy we have now.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:19 AM
  #741
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Don't go throwing around PED accusations when you have absolutely no tangible proof.

Steroids aren't gonna help you time onetimers or stick handle.

I think it's a combination of poor work ethic, poor diet, too much pressure, and complete mental ego devastation.
OV never had amazing stick handling (he was good but certainly there was better), what he had was speed to get around the edge, powerful legs to stay on his skates, and a wicked slapshot that he could get off with little effort. If you have to put more umph into everything because you aren't as strong, your accuracy will suffer. Yeah I'm sure some of it is mental, but the decline in physical skills started around the Olympics, where they probably test for steroids more than the NHL. It's possible that he decided to quit the juice at that point.

It's only a theory but a reasonable one. The other possibility is that he has a drug or alcohol problem. But such a precipitous fall for a great player is usually seen by one of the two if injury is not a factor.

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Old
01-26-2013, 05:36 AM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post


This is the guy we started off with.



This was the start of the decline.



And this is the guy we have now.
Your pics were taken:
1) 2011 summer
2) 2011 playoffs
3) 2010 summer

Kinda reverse. It was wildly speculated how lean and "in shape" AO was this fall. It's not weight, it's not shape, it's in his head. I thought that winning last year's Worlds and playing for his hometown team with his buddy for half a season would make a lot of good for his mental status, it doesn't look so...

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:41 AM
  #743
RandyHolt
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You know what you dont see anymore?

Ovi smiling during games. That ended after the Don Cherry comments, IIRC. Enter OV Robot.

Unkempt Ovi. Gillette killed his look even further.

And him working the smelling salts on the bench. When did that end, around the Nagel allegations perhaps?

While there is no testing program in the NHL, allegations like that being made against your team, if even from a dealer, is a fine reason to stop.

The Hogs, football, baseball, the goons, now Lance.... call me Mr Hand I am stunned someone is not cheating.


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Old
01-26-2013, 06:48 AM
  #744
Capsman
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You know what you dont see anymore?

Ovi smiling during games. That ended after the Don Cherry comments, IIRC. Enter OV Robot.

Unkempt Ovi. Gillette killed his look even further.

And him working the smelling salts on the bench. When did that end, around the Nagel allegations perhaps?

While there is no testing program in the NHL, allegations like that being made against your team, if even from a dealer, is a fine reason to stop.

The Hogs, football, baseball, the goons, now Lance.... call me Mr Hand I am stunned someone is not cheating.
Why would he stop smelling salts because of the allegations?

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Old
01-26-2013, 06:51 AM
  #745
RandyHolt
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Why would he stop smelling salts because of the allegations?
Because he didn't need it. Team told him it gives the team a bad image. Told him that it actually does not increase performance at all. Reminded him that is used for lifeless corpses.

Why do you think we do not see him using it anymore?

And, did we last see it before Montreal perhaps - we used to see it almost every game. On TV.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 01-26-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 06:57 AM
  #746
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Reminds me of that old Russian joke about a circus guy performing an act where he falls 50 feet and lands on a railroad nail with his bare ass, does an encore, then when the fans ask for an encore again points out that landing on a railroad nail with your bare ass hurts like hell.

That's always been Ovechkin style, and it's not a style you can keep up when the rest of the team is built to sap enthusiasm. It's just not psychologically gonna happen. He still has it in the playoffs when he goes all out, even if it's futile. Last year he was put with crap on a throwaway line and played his heart out and hit everything that moved. In the regular season we don't need him to go all out. We just need a roster whose bottom 3 lines and bottom 2 pairings don't look like they were put together by a 3rd grader on blow.

Give him a deep team that has a real chance in the playoffs and he'd get a Conn Smythe.
So he is fumbling pucks and getting knocked on his arse all the time because he is bored? Don't buy it. This team is no worse from a talent perspective than it was 3-4 years ago. Unless you include the old OV versus this version.

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Old
01-26-2013, 07:22 AM
  #747
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McPhee meant in the game as in a coach, a GM, a scout, etc.
not that it matters much but i'm pretty sure it was ted leonsis who said that

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:03 AM
  #748
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I think we all put Ovechkin too much in focus here.
Sure, his game is beyond any criticism now, but Liberation said the right thing. Crosby and Malkin have, well, Malkin and Crosby - and also a great 3rd line and a good 4th energy line. So when their star players are not performing, they always have backup. If they're not going, they have guys to help them going.

When Ovechkin sucks, the Caps suck. Entire team looks like complete garbage. That said, we know that they are not garbage. What once was a deep and talented team doesn't become a team with one decent line and one decent D pairing. Yes, no Semin, no Laich atm, but who are supposed to provide skill and talent look like soft morons. Entire team plays bad hockey. Maybe they feed them with **** in the DC.

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01-26-2013, 08:20 AM
  #749
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i am still taken by the basic visual that ovechkin's linemates were a hunting hound and a crustacion. its like ovechkin translates to russian to mean rabbit.

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Old
01-26-2013, 08:20 AM
  #750
RandyHolt
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Its tough not to focus on OV as our best player, our C, the face of our franchise, biggest cap hit etc.

The list of wild conspiracy theories of the possible things that happened to his game is a rather impressive list. Olympic peak, bored, injured wrist, pressure to be a captain, solved by the league, out of shape, Cherry's comments about his celebrations, BB asking him to tone it down after Malkin, the league crack down on him suspending him more than others, Gillette, changing sticks or skates, waiting for the playoffs, Nagel, thinks he may be better at a different position, non incentive based lifer contract already signed, the nuNHLite does not suit his bullish game... i am sure I am missing quite a few.

We may tend to focus on Ovi too much, but like Halpy said, "we" wanted lightning rod Semin gone, so things are going to be put on his back more than ever. Be careful what you wish for.

That said, he can still play hockey. He gets very little support. For all their greatness and chemistry, I sure don't see many ES plays between LW Ovi and Nick. May was right, a line needs to be formed and they need to learn to attack as one. Can Ovi wait, or can others keep up?

I found Oates's line generator by the way.

http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/reso...s1/maths/dice/

We have no coordinated attack, no set plays from our top line and have not for some time. It needs to be resolved.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 01-26-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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